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Sweden's inability to win over Canada in important games

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Old
11-15-2010, 03:28 PM
  #1
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Sweden's inability to win over Canada in important games

Has anyone else noticed that Sweden barely has won a single elimination game in the history of important hockey tournaments?

I can only find one occasion(if you discount the WHC) it has happened:

1994 - Olympic final

Yeah that's it. Sweden has never defeated Canada (in quarter, semins or final) in a best of the best tournament in either U20 level or Men's level. I never realized history was this poor

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11-15-2010, 04:16 PM
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Brun0
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i've noticed

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Old
11-15-2010, 04:17 PM
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B Boarding
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Originally Posted by nostalgia4ever View Post
Has anyone else noticed that Sweden barely has won a single elimination game in the history of important hockey tournaments?

I can only find one occasion(if you discount the WHC) it has happened:

1994 - Olympic final

Yeah that's it. Sweden has never defeated Canada (in quarter, semins or final) in a best of the best tournament in either U20 level or Men's level. I never realized history was this poor
That's sad but not really surprising. Our coaches are used to be playing a perimeter game and that's just not good enough when the going gets tough. Hopefully we have learned our lesson and the new generation of coaches will do better. I think coaches like Ronnquist, Marts and some coaches in the junior leagues are on the right track.

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11-19-2010, 09:23 AM
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Teus
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Originally Posted by B Boarding View Post
That's sad but not really surprising. Our coaches are used to be playing a perimeter game and that's just not good enough when the going gets tough. Hopefully we have learned our lesson and the new generation of coaches will do better. I think coaches like Ronnquist, Marts and some coaches in the junior leagues are on the right track.
On the other hand, Mårts hasn't succeeded with this as the head coach of the U20 national team. Of course he has probably learned a lot from those games and the difference between the two teams are smaller on senior level, but we should probably wait calling him savior.

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11-19-2010, 10:58 AM
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Mismatch made in heaven.

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Old
11-19-2010, 11:40 AM
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Ribban
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Trolling at its very best!
:LOL:

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Old
11-20-2010, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Teus View Post
On the other hand, Mårts hasn't succeeded with this as the head coach of the U20 national team. Of course he has probably learned a lot from those games and the difference between the two teams are smaller on senior level, but we should probably wait calling him savior.
marts atleast took 3 straight medals, lets see what ronnberg can do, but there is no reason to be excited with him...

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11-22-2010, 07:58 AM
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Tomas W
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The Swedish Defence cant cope with the heavy forwards in Canada. We have to many puckmovers and to few bodymovers. Hopefully I guy like Hedman who has the tools to become a great defensive defensman (both big and a good skater) can change this in time.

Also, it doesnt seem that Sweden actually meet Canada that often in the final stages (senior level).

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11-22-2010, 12:00 PM
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Ribban
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
The Swedish Defence cant cope with the heavy forwards in Canada. We have to many puckmovers and to few bodymovers. Hopefully I guy like Hedman who has the tools to become a great defensive defensman (both big and a good skater) can change this in time.

Also, it doesnt seem that Sweden actually meet Canada that often in the final stages (senior level).
I was with you in your first sentence, but then I think I lost you a bit.

What I see is indeed that our defense struggle with the NA forwards, but not so much for the reason that they are all that stronger and whatever. I see the NA forechecking cause our D-men to get all worked up. The Swedish D-men are so used to having that little extra time to make the first pass or skate it, and when they don't, they cough it up or reset to have the "perfect breakout play," as they seem unable to ad lib back into the system. That's why the "torpedo" was so effective against just Canada.

It's usually a tug of war between the Swedish defensemen finding a Swedish forward in the gap between the Candaian D and forecheck vs. Canada's ability to pressure the passer and cause a direct or indirect turnover (just like the blitz conept in football).

All the other stuff, gloves in faces, elbows, yo-moma anthics, and pinball action in front of the net are just consequences of Sweden's failure to move the puck, and it's noise that make at least the Swedes forget what they really need to do, whereas it pumps up the NA boys to chase even more... and on top of that, it's fun to be a pain in the ass and get a rise out somebody, ask any little sibling.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:24 PM
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Tomas W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribban View Post
I was with you in your first sentence, but then I think I lost you a bit.

What I see is indeed that our defense struggle with the NA forwards, but not so much for the reason that they are all that stronger and whatever. I see the NA forechecking cause our D-men to get all worked up. The Swedish D-men are so used to having that little extra time to make the first pass or skate it, and when they don't, they cough it up or reset to have the "perfect breakout play," as they seem unable to ad lib back into the system. That's why the "torpedo" was so effective against just Canada.

It's usually a tug of war between the Swedish defensemen finding a Swedish forward in the gap between the Candaian D and forecheck vs. Canada's ability to pressure the passer and cause a direct or indirect turnover (just like the blitz conept in football).

All the other stuff, gloves in faces, elbows, yo-moma anthics, and pinball action in front of the net are just consequences of Sweden's failure to move the puck, and it's noise that make at least the Swedes forget what they really need to do, whereas it pumps up the NA boys to chase even more... and on top of that, it's fun to be a pain in the ass and get a rise out somebody, ask any little sibling.
But I think you are saying what I meant to say as well. For me the defence has too be: fast/strong and smart (as in, keep it simple when in pressure, but if not then go ahead and make your outlet pass or whatever). Better defensive defencemen. Learn from Finland.

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Old
11-22-2010, 01:27 PM
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Swedens offensive game is getting better and better with all the new talent I think.

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Old
11-22-2010, 02:04 PM
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Ok, now I know this is not "best on best" but I thought it was a good acomplishment for Sweden when they beat Canada in the semi-finals for the world championships in 2006. I know you mentioned to discount it but with the roster that they won gold you can make an exception
Team Sweden was full of SEL players and managed to beat a pretty good Canadian team with the likes of Crosby, Jeff Carter, Dan Hamhuis, etc.

I also remember in 2002 when Sweden beat Canada in the opening game 5-2!
(again not do or die game but was nice to see Canada lose)

Check out the 2006 rosters.

Goaltenders Chris Mason Nashville Predators
Marc Denis Columbus Blue Jackets
Alex Auld Vancouver Canucks
Defencemen Dan Hamhuis Nashville Predators
Stephane Robidas Dallas Stars
Brent Seabrook Chicago Blackhawks
Brad Stuart Boston Bruins
Trevor Daley Dallas Stars
Micki Dupont Eisbären Berlin
Nick Schultz Minnesota Wild
Forwards Jeff Carter Philadelphia Flyers
Glen Metropolit HC Lugano
Mike Cammalleri Los Angeles Kings
Brendan Shanahan Detroit Red Wings
Scott Hartnell Nashville Predators
Mike Richards Philadelphia Flyers
Kyle Calder Chicago Blackhawks
Stacy Roest SC Rapperswil-Jona
Brad Boyes Boston Bruins
Matt Pettinger Washington Capitals
Jason Williams Detroit Red Wings
Patrice Bergeron Boston Bruins
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh Penguins
Mike Comrie Phoenix Coyotes







1 Stefan Liv HV71 G
30 Johan Holmqvist Brynäs IF G
34 Daniel Henriksson Färjestads BK G
3 Mattias Timander Modo Hockey D
6 Magnus Johansson - A Linköpings HC D
7 Niklas Kronwall Detroit Red Wings D
18 Per Hållberg Färjestads BK D
23 Ronnie Sundin Frölunda HC D
25 Andreas Holmqvist Linköpings HC D
29 Kenny Jönsson - C Rögle BK D
9 Tony Mårtensson Linköpings HC F
11 Jesper Mattsson Färjestads BK F
16 Jonas Nordquist Luleå HF F
17 Mathias Johansson Färjestads BK F
19 Nicklas Bäckström Brynäs IF F
20 Joel Lundqvist Frölunda HC F
24 Andreas Karlsson HV71 F
31 Björn Melin HV71 F
33 Fredrik Emvall Linköpings HC F
37 Mikael Samuelsson Detroit Red Wings F
39 Johan Franzén Detroit Red Wings F
40 Henrik Zetterberg - A Detroit Red Wings F
51 Mika Hannula HV71 F
72 Jörgen Jönsson Färjestads BK F
92 Michael Nylander New York Rangers


Also 1994 was not best on best, remember it was not until 1998 that NHL players were allowed to participate.

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Old
11-23-2010, 10:26 AM
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ZDatsZuke
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Well doesnt most teams have trouble with Canada in important games?


a good start could be to ice best possible team and not do what they always do...
and a coach that watch the players during seasons cus that's what we pay you for, and actually knows what kind of players they are and how to best put them to use. Maybe realise there is a reason why Magnus Johansson and Mattias Weinhandl never made it in the NHL, maybe.

Still we would have trouble with Canada.

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Old
11-24-2010, 12:15 AM
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Christ. Trolling at it's best. And people are replying.

Some of the posters makes a good effort tho. That I can appreciate.
I don't think the OP will though.

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Old
11-24-2010, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
But I think you are saying what I meant to say as well. For me the defence has too be: fast/strong and smart (as in, keep it simple when in pressure, but if not then go ahead and make your outlet pass or whatever). Better defensive defencemen. Learn from Finland.
I really don't think that's the problem either. It's not like we ice 6 of Enström every olympics. No, we've had Lidström, Tallinder, Öhlund, Murray, Jönsson, Hävelid, Samuelsson, Norström etc. Guys who aren't exactly afraid to make a simple play if needed.

It's really not that much of an issue. Canada is the team to beat, they are the most talented nation around. We are certainly able to beat them, but it's no disaster if we don't. It's not like we'd get beat by the Slovaks, Finns, Czech or US regularly enough to call it more than co-incidents in elimination games.

Besides, it's not as if we've met a billion times and Sweden has lost them all in elimination games. We won in 94 and lost in 96 and 91 if you want to go that far back. Not that bad I'd say.

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Old
11-24-2010, 11:06 AM
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Ribban
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Originally Posted by no.95 View Post
I really don't think that's the problem either. It's not like we ice 6 of Enström every olympics. No, we've had Lidström, Tallinder, Öhlund, Murray, Jönsson, Hävelid, Samuelsson, Norström etc. Guys who aren't exactly afraid to make a simple play if needed.

It's really not that much of an issue. Canada is the team to beat, they are the most talented nation around. We are certainly able to beat them, but it's no disaster if we don't. It's not like we'd get beat by the Slovaks, Finns, Czech or US regularly enough to call it more than co-incidents in elimination games.

Besides, it's not as if we've met a billion times and Sweden has lost them all in elimination games. We won in 94 and lost in 96 and 91 if you want to go that far back. Not that bad I'd say.
We really haven't played Canada in any Olympics with all the best on best, besdies SLC.
The troll starting this thing is referring to other tournaments, and whereas we've had a couple of NHL defenders on those squads, we haven't had more than a couple, which means we are still playing with 3-4 Dmen, who aren't used to the NA forechecking style of hockey, so I don't know if I agree with your argument here.

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