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Old
11-10-2010, 03:24 PM
  #1
Bileur
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Senators Prospect Updates, 2010-2011 - II

Previous thread : http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=754518
Older threads : http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=810051

Passed the post limit (a while ago)...

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Old
11-10-2010, 03:32 PM
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Ya I'm secretly hoping Anders returns to the organization at some point as well. I imagine he's reccomended a protege to Bryan though.

I'd also support luring Jarmo Kekellainen back into the organization but I don't think he'd leave Finland for anything less then a GM position in the NHL now.

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Old
11-10-2010, 03:58 PM
  #3
Jared Cowen 2010
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Butler is ripping the league apart, 2nd in goals and points for a rookie. Only a matter of time till he's called up.

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Old
11-10-2010, 04:05 PM
  #4
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Manual quotes I guess :

Quote:
Fuhr said :

Paul Stastny - Born Dec 27 1985 -- Quebec City, PQ
Stephen Weiss - Born Apr 3 1983 -- Toronto, ONT

Can't make up Euros
My mistake, I was posting from work and we’re not really supposed to use internet for personal activity so I did it very quickly. I wanted to remove Stastny but simply forgot. Weiss, I admit I thought he was European (probably has Swiss or german origins). So we’re not talking about near 40%, but more like 35%. Still very significant

And you can’t make up stats as well (if I can't make up Euros ). You said 29 Euro players out of 100 when it was 35 in reality… But I think no one is really surprised about it.

Quote:
Kyle said :

Obviously there must be a language barrier for you. My comment was in the context of how Canada could ice 20 junior teams that would still be able to win gold in the world junior's.

So I'll put it in simpler context for you. No matter how 'diluted' you believe the NHL talent pool would be minus European players, they would still have no trouble polishing off SEL teams. Every day and all the time.
Of course langage might affect our communication but your comment about juniors was out of context. I was talking about and only about actual NHL players. I don't really care about juniors in what I was talking about

Anyway, believe what you want. I am not sure the Sens minus their European players (and with more players like Shannon and Donovan to take bigger roles) would beat a good SEL team with the likes of Karlsson, Hedman, Alfredsson, Eriksson, Sedin, Zetterberg, Edler… added to it

Who?-Spezza-Who?
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon
Who?-Kelly-Neil
Smith-Winchester-who?

Phillips-Who?
Campoli-Carkner
Hale-Lee

That’s what the Sens would like. To fill those spots, they would turn to guys like Cheechoo, Guerin, Donovan, Locke and other AHL players, as well as some NA players playing in Europe… But the thing is all 30 NHL teams would be looking to fill holes left by gone Euros.

You still think those NHL teams would beat much improved SEL teams everyday and all the time? Or am I bang on?

You can do the same exercise with all the NHL teams. Not many wouldn't be vastly affected if they were to lose all their european players...


Last edited by Xspyrit: 11-10-2010 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
11-10-2010, 04:15 PM
  #5
Bileur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Manual quotes I guess :



My mistake, I was posting from work and we’re not really supposed to use internet for personal activity so I did it very quickly. I wanted to remove Stastny but simply forgot. Weiss, I admit I thought he was European. So we’re not talking about near 40%, but more like 35%. Still very significant

And you can’t make up stats. You said 29 Euro players out of 100 when it was 35 in reality… But I think no one is really surprised about it.



Of course langage might affect our communication but your comment about juniors was out of context. I was talking about and only about actual NHL players. I don't really care about juniors in what I was talking about

Anyway, believe what you want. I am not sure the Sens minus their European players (and with more players like Shannon and Donovan to take bigger roles) would beat a good SEL team with the likes of Karlsson, Hedman, Alfredsson, Eriksson, Sedin, Zetterberg, Edler… added to it

Who?-Spezza-Who?
Who?-Fisher-Who?
Who?-Kelly-Neil
Foligno-Winchester-Shannon

Phillips-Who?
Campoli-Carkner
Hale-Lee

That’s what the Sens would like. To fill those spots, they would turn to guys like Cheechoo, Guerin, Donovan, Locke and other AHL players, as well as some NA players playing in Europe… But the thing is all 30 NHL teams would be looking to fill holes left by gone Euros.

You still think those NHL teams would beat much improved SEL teams everyday and all the time? Or am I bang on?

You can do the same exercise with all the NHL teams. Not many wouldn't be vastly affected if they were to lose all their european players...


I don't really understand the point of bringing up the sens minus their europeans vs. SEL teams. I mean we built this team on the idea that we could have europeans and would have drafted differently had there been indication that we were randomly going to have them revoked by commissioner Xspyrit.

If you really want a lineup ...

Foligno - Spezza - Butler
Locke - Fisher - Shannon
Smith - Kelly - Neil
Bass - Winchester - O'Brien
Hoffman

Phillips - Wiercioch/Benoit
Campoli - Carkner
Hale - Lee/Cowen

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Old
11-10-2010, 04:19 PM
  #6
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What about teams that are NA heavy?

JVR-Carter-Richards
Hartnell-Briere-Maroon
Carcillo-Giroux-Lapierrere

Carl-Pronger
Coburn-O'Donnell
Walker-Marshall

Leighton

OR

Heatley-Thornton-Seto
Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe
Mcginn-Coltoure-Mitchell

Vlasic-Boyle
Huskins-Demers
Joslin-Petecki

Stalock

OR

Downie-Stamkos-St.Louis
Gagne-Lecavalier-Malone
Tyrell-Moore-purcell

Lundin-Ranger
Smaby-Clark
Roy-Wishart

Ellis

I can keep going and going... would absolutely wreck SEL teams

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Old
11-10-2010, 04:35 PM
  #7
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Per Pierre Dorion from the team today, Sorensen is currently in boston to try out for the swedish world junior team!

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Old
11-10-2010, 04:37 PM
  #8
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For anyone who missed it, they're replaying his interview on the team now.

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Old
11-10-2010, 04:38 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ek65 View Post
Per Pierre Dorion from the team today, Sorensen is currently in boston to try out for the swedish world junior team!
Even if he doesn't make it which he isn't likely too...I think this would be above expectations anyways. Burda and Forsberg basically ruled out the WJC for him as an 18 year old after the draft.

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Old
11-10-2010, 05:14 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler_sens View Post
For anyone who missed it, they're replaying his interview on the team now.
They just put it up.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....9400585&ref=mf

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Old
11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Manual quotes I guess :



My mistake, I was posting from work and we’re not really supposed to use internet for personal activity so I did it very quickly. I wanted to remove Stastny but simply forgot. Weiss, I admit I thought he was European (probably has Swiss or german origins). So we’re not talking about near 40%, but more like 35%. Still very significant

And you can’t make up stats as well (if I can't make up Euros ). You said 29 Euro players out of 100 when it was 35 in reality… But I think no one is really surprised about it.



Of course langage might affect our communication but your comment about juniors was out of context. I was talking about and only about actual NHL players. I don't really care about juniors in what I was talking about

Anyway, believe what you want. I am not sure the Sens minus their European players (and with more players like Shannon and Donovan to take bigger roles) would beat a good SEL team with the likes of Karlsson, Hedman, Alfredsson, Eriksson, Sedin, Zetterberg, Edler… added to it

Who?-Spezza-Who?
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon
Who?-Kelly-Neil
Smith-Winchester-who?

Phillips-Who?
Campoli-Carkner
Hale-Lee

That’s what the Sens would like. To fill those spots, they would turn to guys like Cheechoo, Guerin, Donovan, Locke and other AHL players, as well as some NA players playing in Europe… But the thing is all 30 NHL teams would be looking to fill holes left by gone Euros.

You still think those NHL teams would beat much improved SEL teams everyday and all the time? Or am I bang on?

You can do the same exercise with all the NHL teams. Not many wouldn't be vastly affected if they were to lose all their european players...

You don't seem to realize the sheer number of hockey players produced in NA and Canada specifically. If you took all the Swedish forwards and other Euro's and sent them back to the SEL and other leagues, you would lose about 15% of players. Of those probably 5% are high-end and matter. Those players would be dispersed amoung the SEL teams - they aren't all going to the same team.


Or put it in simplest terms. Could the sens beat Frolunda if Alfie still played there? Cause I think they could destroy them even without Gonchar, Karlsson and Kovalev.

Presumably the Swedish league is going to have to return all the Finns, Danes, Canadians etc they have so they are going to lose some talent as well.


It's a moot point in any case since I doubt we can convince the players involved to suit up for the games necessary.

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Old
11-10-2010, 06:02 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
What about teams that are NA heavy?

JVR-Carter-Richards
Hartnell-Briere-Maroon
Carcillo-Giroux-Lapierrere

Carl-Pronger
Coburn-O'Donnell
Walker-Marshall

Leighton

OR

Heatley-Thornton-Seto
Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe
Mcginn-Coltoure-Mitchell

Vlasic-Boyle
Huskins-Demers
Joslin-Petecki

Stalock

OR

Downie-Stamkos-St.Louis
Gagne-Lecavalier-Malone
Tyrell-Moore-purcell

Lundin-Ranger
Smaby-Clark
Roy-Wishart

Ellis

I can keep going and going... would absolutely wreck SEL teams
In 1994-95 the Soviet Wings played each IHL club as part of a North American tour. The Soviet Wings went 1-14-2

I'd love to see an SEL club do a similar tour, but it's very unlikely.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:06 PM
  #13
Xspyrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur View Post
I don't really understand the point of bringing up the sens minus their europeans vs. SEL teams. I mean we built this team on the idea that we could have europeans and would have drafted differently had there been indication that we were randomly going to have them revoked by commissioner Xspyrit.
I don't really remember lol but I just brought this point randomly, never tought it would have been so controversial and so hard to understand. lol

The point was to show ppl that the SEL is a way better league that people here seem to think. For example, add the Sedins, Karlsson and Lundqvist to a SEL team and remove them from a NHL team to see if there is still a gap between the leagues.

But oh well, no one seems to understand this point or if they do, they don't think it would make a difference and that NHL teams would still "wreck" those SEL teams, even if they can't even do it in the real cirscumstances of today. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fuhr View Post
What about teams that are NA heavy?

...

I can keep going and going... would absolutely wreck SEL teams
Totally knew about this but again you missed the point because without the europeans ALL THE NA TALENT WOULD HAVE BEEN DILUATED INTO 30 TEAMS.

Maybe "diluated" doesn't mean the same thing that it does in french? If it did, ppl would have got it already... So I wonder what's the word for it.

And we saw many times before NHL teams wreck those SEL teams in pre-season

I wish some swedish posters could collaborate and explain that the gap isn't that huge between the 2 leagues and if you remove the euros and put back the swedish players in the SEL, it would be very close. I have no doubt that they could do it since they can already beat "pre-season" NHL teams on pre-season games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
You don't seem to realize the sheer number of hockey players produced in NA and Canada specifically. If you took all the Swedish forwards and other Euro's and sent them back to the SEL and other leagues, you would lose about 15% of players. Of those probably 5% are high-end and matter. Those players would be dispersed amoung the SEL teams - they aren't all going to the same team.

Or put it in simplest terms. Could the sens beat Frolunda if Alfie still played there? Cause I think they could destroy them even without Gonchar, Karlsson and Kovalev.

Presumably the Swedish league is going to have to return all the Finns, Danes, Canadians etc they have so they are going to lose some talent as well.


It's a moot point in any case since I doubt we can convince the players involved to suit up for the games necessary.

There isn't 30 SEL teams. Only 12 teams. A lot less "diluation". There is like 55 Swedish players in the NHL actually.

Quantity does not = quality. Canada and USA produce both but that doesn't mean all the talent/30 teams would be better than all the Swedish talent/12 teams

The last time the Sens played Frolunda, they beat them 4-1. They had to put a decent team on the Ice to do it with ALfie, Spezza, etc. The goal allowed on Spezza was very weak too. Homlqvist IIRC.

Karlsson was 18 back then. The game wasn't a blowout. Give them Alfie and actual Karlsson and a goalie like Lundqvist, you have another game.

Anyway, you guys believe what you want. You seem very entitled to your opinion that the SEL is bush league compared to the NHL, even if you remove the Euros from the NHL and add them back to their countries.

That's all the time I had for this. Going to play hockey!


Last edited by Xspyrit: 11-10-2010 at 08:12 PM.
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Old
11-10-2010, 08:09 PM
  #14
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Who cares, ****.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:19 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ek65 View Post
Per Pierre Dorion from the team today, Sorensen is currently in boston to try out for the swedish world junior team!
Actually, I believe what he said was he was touring the Boston area with a Swedish team which will comprise the bulk of their WJC team. I'm sure the tryouts will be in Sweden.

BTW, anyone notice the Facebook of Sex ads at the top of the pages lately. Good to see HFBoards getting open minded in it's old age.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:41 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
I wish some swedish posters could collaborate and explain that the gap isn't that huge between the 2 leagues and if you remove the euros and put back the swedish players in the SEL, it would be very close. I have no doubt that they could do it since they can already beat "pre-season" NHL teams on pre-season games.
NHL size rinks and International sized rinks make a big difference. There's alot of skilled players in Europe that can't handle the pace and hitting in America and vice versa tons of powerforward brutes that wouldn't score a point in Europe found across the pond. The differences between the leagues in terms of culture also makes comparisons difficult.

No, I feel the gap between the SEL and NHL is very noticeable. The top SEL teams IF their lineup could master the game being played in the NHL, roster wise they could compete but never reach the playoffs, they would be a constant bottom feeder. It's the $ that pays the top performing lines that's the game breaker.

Having said that, SEL and European hockey is extremely underrated and scoffed at on these boards, I hear the words "real league" alot here when speaking of prospects currently playing in Europe (ie need to "come over" to play "real hockey" in a "real league").

Your example with NHL teams pre-season records against European opponents doesn't mean anything. Preaseason is one thing but an NHL club would destroy most European teams in the playoffs.


On Topic: Not sure if this was posted here but Rundblad will wear the 'A' in Karjala Cup this week. Pretty surprising decision since he's one of the youngest players on the team.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:48 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
On Topic: Not sure if this was posted here but Rundblad will wear the 'A' in Karjala Cup this week. Pretty surprising decision since he's one of the youngest players on the team.
That's really encouraging.

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:50 PM
  #18
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Is he too old to play in the WJC?

I was also pleasantly surprised to see that he leads all SEL defensemen in pts.

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:56 PM
  #19
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When was the last time a rookie was 2nd in goals in the AHL?

Butler's production is amazing! If he keeps this up his agent will be calling Murray soon....

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11-10-2010, 10:06 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
I don't really remember lol but I just brought this point randomly, never tought it would have been so controversial and so hard to understand. lol

The point was to show ppl that the SEL is a way better league that people here seem to think. For example, add the Sedins, Karlsson and Lundqvist to a SEL team and remove them from a NHL team to see if there is still a gap between the leagues.

But oh well, no one seems to understand this point or if they do, they don't think it would make a difference and that NHL teams would still "wreck" those SEL teams, even if they can't even do it in the real cirscumstances of today. lol



Totally knew about this but again you missed the point because without the europeans ALL THE NA TALENT WOULD HAVE BEEN DILUATED INTO 30 TEAMS.

Maybe "diluated" doesn't mean the same thing that it does in french? If it did, ppl would have got it already... So I wonder what's the word for it.

And we saw many times before NHL teams wreck those SEL teams in pre-season

I wish some swedish posters could collaborate and explain that the gap isn't that huge between the 2 leagues and if you remove the euros and put back the swedish players in the SEL, it would be very close. I have no doubt that they could do it since they can already beat "pre-season" NHL teams on pre-season games.




There isn't 30 SEL teams. Only 12 teams. A lot less "diluation". There is like 55 Swedish players in the NHL actually.

Quantity does not = quality. Canada and USA produce both but that doesn't mean all the talent/30 teams would be better than all the Swedish talent/12 teams

The last time the Sens played Frolunda, they beat them 4-1. They had to put a decent team on the Ice to do it with ALfie, Spezza, etc. The goal allowed on Spezza was very weak too. Homlqvist IIRC.

Karlsson was 18 back then. The game wasn't a blowout. Give them Alfie and actual Karlsson and a goalie like Lundqvist, you have another game.

Anyway, you guys believe what you want. You seem very entitled to your opinion that the SEL is bush league compared to the NHL, even if you remove the Euros from the NHL and add them back to their countries.

That's all the time I had for this. Going to play hockey!
If you add those guys to an SEL team then you'd have a team with 4 NHL'ers vs one with 16. And that's me being charitable and not asserting that the league could develop more Canadian players, which they could. There being lots of Canadians playing in RSL, SEL and AHL who could step into the NHL and fill those spots.

But lets just agree to disagree, with no ill will.

I'm sure we all can agree on one point. Leafs suck


Last edited by kyle747: 11-11-2010 at 05:50 AM.
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Old
11-10-2010, 11:29 PM
  #21
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On Topic: Not sure if this was posted here but Rundblad will wear the 'A' in Karjala Cup this week. Pretty surprising decision since he's one of the youngest players on the team.
That's certainly really interesting/surprising. It seems uncustomary for a young player to take a leadership role on a mens Swedish national team...perhaps this is something facilitated by the coaching change from BAG to Par Marts who has coached Rundblad in the WJC....surprising nonetheless.

It should be interesting to see what kind of role Rundblad gets...I'd start to wonder immediately just how good this guy is right now if he ends up playing in all situations for the team.

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Old
11-11-2010, 03:32 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
When was the last time a rookie was 2nd in goals in the AHL?

Butler's production is amazing! If he keeps this up his agent will be calling Murray soon....
It is really great to see him do so well, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to bring him up. I think the AHL experience is just what he needs right now. That is only my opinion of course.

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11-11-2010, 03:43 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
When was the last time a rookie was 2nd in goals in the AHL?

Butler's production is amazing! If he keeps this up his agent will be calling Murray soon....
There's a rookie by the name of Luke Adam that has more goals than Butler right now

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11-11-2010, 06:01 AM
  #24
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There's a rookie by the name of Luke Adam that has more goals than Butler right now
You are correct - I hadn't noticed

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11-11-2010, 08:54 AM
  #25
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It is really great to see him do so well, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to bring him up. I think the AHL experience is just what he needs right now. That is only my opinion of course.
I'm just wondering if he leaves via free agency at the end of this season if we don't give him NHL time.

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