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Official Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part VIII

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Old
12-08-2010, 07:12 PM
  #951
QuattroFTW
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I say ride the incredibly long, dull and uneventful wave that is the 2010-2011 season and then do some major overhauls for next year. It would probably boost hype for our All Star game too

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12-08-2010, 07:20 PM
  #952
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You are an otter.
He's got to be one of the worst coaches at the NHL level, has no idea what to do with that enviable 3rd period...

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12-08-2010, 08:35 PM
  #953
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I think CC needs an assistant coach that can be the nice guy on the bench

either that or make alfie the captain/coach (Reggie Dunlop style)

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12-08-2010, 08:47 PM
  #954
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I think CC needs an assistant coach that can be the nice guy on the bench

either that or make alfie the captain/coach (Reggie Dunlop style)
Clouston needs to be an assistant.

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12-08-2010, 09:12 PM
  #955
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He's got to be one of the worst coaches at the NHL level, has no idea what to do with that enviable 3rd period...
He was voted as a top 10 coach last year, I'm not saying he is one and I'm not saying he has been good this year but I think this is the opposite of that Pat Burns quote. You can't keep firing the Generals, at some point you gotta fire the soldiers. This group has been largely futile and unsuccessful under 4 coaches. The only coach to be semi-respectable with us has been Clouston, getting us to 5th place. No other coach has gotten us above 7th, and Paddock/Murray only got there because of an early season bender. Do I love or even like Clouston? Not really, but I think if 4 coaches, all of whom have been successful in the past for the most part, can't get this team to be above mediocre for anything more than a stretch, the players need to be held accountable. Kelly, Neil, Spezza, Alfie, Fisher, Kuba, Phillips, and Foligno have been here the whole time, and Ruutu, Kuba, Winchester, Shannon, and Elliott have been here from the next year. Thats 13 players, and 8 of them (all of whom are/should be our key players) have been here through 4 coaches and have consistently lost. Is Clouston a bad coach? Maybe. Very possible. Nothing he has done this year suggests he is a good coach. That being said, I don't think we can just keep firing coaches every year and a half (if they are lucky) while keeping the same core and getting them to do marginally well one year and then revert back to the same old B.S.

If Clouston gets fired, I really hope its after something is done. We can afford to wait and see if he truly is the problem here. He may not be the solution, but at this point its hard to point to our most successful coach of the 4 coaches we've had over the past 3.25 years as the problem.

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12-08-2010, 10:54 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
He was voted as a top 10 coach last year, I'm not saying he is one and I'm not saying he has been good this year but I think this is the opposite of that Pat Burns quote. You can't keep firing the Generals, at some point you gotta fire the soldiers. This group has been largely futile and unsuccessful under 4 coaches. The only coach to be semi-respectable with us has been Clouston, getting us to 5th place. No other coach has gotten us above 7th, and Paddock/Murray only got there because of an early season bender. Do I love or even like Clouston? Not really, but I think if 4 coaches, all of whom have been successful in the past for the most part, can't get this team to be above mediocre for anything more than a stretch, the players need to be held accountable. Kelly, Neil, Spezza, Alfie, Fisher, Kuba, Phillips, and Foligno have been here the whole time, and Ruutu, Kuba, Winchester, Shannon, and Elliott have been here from the next year. Thats 13 players, and 8 of them (all of whom are/should be our key players) have been here through 4 coaches and have consistently lost. Is Clouston a bad coach? Maybe. Very possible. Nothing he has done this year suggests he is a good coach. That being said, I don't think we can just keep firing coaches every year and a half (if they are lucky) while keeping the same core and getting them to do marginally well one year and then revert back to the same old B.S.

If Clouston gets fired, I really hope its after something is done. We can afford to wait and see if he truly is the problem here. He may not be the solution, but at this point its hard to point to our most successful coach of the 4 coaches we've had over the past 3.25 years as the problem.
Let me get this straight. You understand that Clouston is not a good coach yet you want to keep him around and start trading away players?

You don't have to keep firing coaches if you hire a good one.

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12-08-2010, 11:02 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by The Best WorstPoster View Post
Let me get this straight. You understand that Clouston is not a good coach yet you want to keep him around and start trading away players?

You don't have to keep firing coaches if you hire a good one.
I'm saying Clouston took a good step last year, but I think the way the players have played hasn't allowed him to further prove himself. He didn't go from being a very good coach to an awful coach overnight, and I think that theres more of a trend of these players being mediocre than there is of Cloustons coaching being of detriment to the team. Firing Clouston is the easy way out, and at some point the team needs to stop taking the easy way out. We've gone through 4 coaches that have excellent acumen at other levels, 2 of whom have won at least 1 coach of the year award in the OHL, and one of whom won a Jack Adams trophy in the past as well as AHL coach of the year. Clouston is the least proven and he has gotten the most out of this team, but they have settled into their ways. The attitude of this team is one that doesn't allow a coach to excel. Maybe this time next year I will totally want him out, but until we get players that play hard for a coach for more than 50 games I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

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12-08-2010, 11:04 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
I'm saying Clouston took a good step last year, but I think the way the players have played hasn't allowed him to further prove himself. He didn't go from being a very good coach to an awful coach overnight, and I think that theres more of a trend of these players being mediocre than there is of Cloustons coaching being of detriment to the team. Firing Clouston is the easy way out, and at some point the team needs to stop taking the easy way out. We've gone through 4 coaches that have excellent acumen at other levels, 2 of whom have won at least 1 coach of the year award in the OHL, and one of whom won a Jack Adams trophy in the past as well as AHL coach of the year. Clouston is the least proven and he has gotten the most out of this team, but they have settled into their ways. The attitude of this team is one that doesn't allow a coach to excel. Maybe this time next year I will totally want him out, but until we get players that play hard for a coach for more than 50 games I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.
I have less problem with the players' effort than i do with Clouston's decision making. A bad coach can upset a whole team of players and it's my opinion that that is what we are seeing now.

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12-08-2010, 11:13 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by The Best WorstPoster View Post
I have less problem with the players' effort than i do with Clouston's decision making. A bad coach can upset a whole team of players and it's my opinion that that is what we are seeing now.
If so, it's my opinion that that has happened with 4 coaches over the past 3 years. And its my opinion that we've constantly removed a variable and every replacement has gotten inferior results than Clou. Actually its not my opinion, its fact, but I liked saying "it's my opinion"

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12-08-2010, 11:47 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
If so, it's my opinion that that has happened with 4 coaches over the past 3 years. And its my opinion that we've constantly removed a variable and every replacement has gotten inferior results than Clou. Actually its not my opinion, its fact, but I liked saying "it's my opinion"
Paddock was fired because the goalies were **** and a distraction. They're gone.
Murray wasn't fired as coach.
Hartsburg destroyed this teams offense without improving the defense and lost a bunch of games because of it.

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12-08-2010, 11:59 PM
  #961
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Everyone should be tradeable depending on the return. I was just looking at some of Ottawa's contracts, and I thought this was interesting.

Spezza- if we traded him at the deadline to a team that does not spend to the cap, his salary for the next 5 years would be somewhere around 2.5, 8, 8, 5, 4 = 5.5m per year.

Alfy- 2, 4.5, 1m if he retires after next year they would not care about the caphit

Fisher-1.2, 4, 3m
**all from capgeek

If I was a team like Columbus (Spezza)

Brassard's salary is going the other way 1, 3, 3.3, 3.7m

I think these players could get a greater return because of there salaries not cap hit. Most of you prob already know it, but I thought it was interesting

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12-09-2010, 12:21 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
Everyone should be tradeable depending on the return. I was just looking at some of Ottawa's contracts, and I thought this was interesting.

Spezza- if we traded him at the deadline to a team that does not spend to the cap, his salary for the next 5 years would be somewhere around 2.5, 8, 8, 5, 4 = 5.5m per year.

Alfy- 2, 4.5, 1m if he retires after next year they would not care about the caphit

Fisher-1.2, 4, 3m
**all from capgeek

If I was a team like Columbus (Spezza)

Brassard's salary is going the other way 1, 3, 3.3, 3.7m

I think these players could get a greater return because of there salaries not cap hit. Most of you prob already know it, but I thought it was interesting
Spezza for Brassard trade talk again? I would try to trade Fisher AND Kelly at the same time before trading Spezza.

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12-09-2010, 12:46 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by SensontheRush View Post
Spezza for Brassard trade talk again? I would try to trade Fisher AND Kelly at the same time before trading Spezza.
Lol no ****.

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12-09-2010, 07:58 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Paddock was fired because the goalies were **** and a distraction. They're gone.
Murray wasn't fired as coach.
Hartsburg destroyed this teams offense without improving the defense and lost a bunch of games because of it.
you insert Clouston where it says Hartsburg.

I hate blaming the coach, but something is going on here.

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:56 AM
  #965
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How much credibility does Wayne Scanlan have. I find most of his articles irritating but does he have legit sources in org? He's saying rumours but maybe he's speculating.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...667/story.html

Accordig to him there are rumours of Pierre McGuire coming in if we continue like this

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12-09-2010, 09:11 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
you insert Clouston where it says Hartsburg.

I hate blaming the coach, but something is going on here.
Same here. I hate to go there, I think Clouston's was a good coach last year. But he's not getting any work out of his horses this year.

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12-09-2010, 09:15 AM
  #967
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Originally Posted by dmarc031 View Post
How much credibility does Wayne Scanlan have. I find most of his articles irritating but does he have legit sources in org? He's saying rumours but maybe he's speculating.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...667/story.html

Accordig to him there are rumours of Pierre McGuire coming in if we continue like this
I was hoping he would get the job in Minnesota to see how he would do.

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Old
12-09-2010, 09:21 AM
  #968
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Accordig to him there are rumours of Pierre McGuire coming in if we continue like this
So I'm watching the Ott-Mtl game and in the first period Pierre points out a play by Michalek where he carries the puck from just outside our right blueline all the way to the left face-off circle, but doesn't beat the D-man and gets his shot deflected. Pierre uses this as an example of how Michalek has lost his speed. As he's going into his rant, they replay the rush... Michalek receives a terrible pass into his skates and wastes his first 2-3 strides recovering. This is your example Pierre? And he does stupid crap like this all the time. Strong opinions combined with very poor logical reasoning skills.

"You see that play on the bench Chris? That wasn't just Jay McKee picking his nose on the bench, no he's hiding the grimace in his face as his hemroids flare up. Look for that to be a story all game long if anybody skates around McKee. Even if a linesman trips him, I will blame it on the hemroids, Chris."

He's wrong too often and even when he's right, he's wrong about why he's right. I don't think he's very bright and I doubt the players will either when he starts showing Spezza video footage of how he ties his skates and rants about how it's causing him to lose defensive zone face-offs.

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12-09-2010, 09:32 AM
  #969
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I'm so ****ing sick of the Sens blaming everything on the coach! There will never be a good coach that'll want to come to Ottawa if we fire them all after one year. The players are the ones that play the game, they're the ones that but up ****** efforts day in and out. They're the ones that are responsible. If we take the easy way out and fire the coach whenever the players dont agree with him then they get the attitude they can do whatever they want. Murray should send the message the Clouston is in for the long haul and if the players don't like it tough ****.

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12-09-2010, 10:04 AM
  #970
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
So I'm watching the Ott-Mtl game and in the first period Pierre points out a play by Michalek where he carries the puck from just outside our right blueline all the way to the left face-off circle, but doesn't beat the D-man and gets his shot deflected. Pierre uses this as an example of how Michalek has lost his speed. As he's going into his rant, they replay the rush... Michalek receives a terrible pass into his skates and wastes his first 2-3 strides recovering. This is your example Pierre? And he does stupid crap like this all the time. Strong opinions combined with very poor logical reasoning skills.

"You see that play on the bench Chris? That wasn't just Jay McKee picking his nose on the bench, no he's hiding the grimace in his face as his hemroids flare up. Look for that to be a story all game long if anybody skates around McKee. Even if a linesman trips him, I will blame it on the hemroids, Chris."

He's wrong too often and even when he's right, he's wrong about why he's right. I don't think he's very bright and I doubt the players will either when he starts showing Spezza video footage of how he ties his skates and rants about how it's causing him to lose defensive zone face-offs.

He does say some halfass things but his job is to sell the game and he does that well enough. He just likes the sound of his own voice too much, kind of like Don Cherry lite. Says some smart things but the dumb things are what sticks with you.

There are just so many shoddy GMs out there who hae been given jobs with limited knowledge of hockey and experience. I sincerely can not imagine him doing any worse than the last 2 we've had, honestly.

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12-09-2010, 10:31 AM
  #971
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Would anyone like to take a risk on a guy like Frolov, could be cheap and might work on Spezza LW. either this year or next

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12-09-2010, 10:35 AM
  #972
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There are just so many shoddy GMs out there who hae been given jobs with limited knowledge of hockey and experience. I sincerely can not imagine him doing any worse than the last 2 we've had, honestly.
It's easy if you try:
- Drafting of Muckler
- Trade deadline deals of Muckler
- Free agent signings of Murray
- Coach hiring of Murray

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12-09-2010, 10:39 AM
  #973
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If so, it's my opinion that that has happened with 4 coaches over the past 3 years. And its my opinion that we've constantly removed a variable and every replacement has gotten inferior results than Clou. Actually its not my opinion, its fact, but I liked saying "it's my opinion"
They are ALL bad coaches. that is why it is happening. Of course the players get more frustrated each time a bad coach gets replaced with ANOTHER bad coach.
I know what i see with my own eyes and i'm seeing the worst coaching i've ever seen right now. Not even on a senators team, just the worst coaching of any nhl team since i've been watching hockey.

You can say he was a good coach last year because the record was good but this year they are headed for record breaking lows.

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12-09-2010, 10:46 AM
  #974
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So I'm watching the Ott-Mtl game and in the first period Pierre points out a play by Michalek where he carries the puck from just outside our right blueline all the way to the left face-off circle, but doesn't beat the D-man and gets his shot deflected. Pierre uses this as an example of how Michalek has lost his speed. As he's going into his rant, they replay the rush... Michalek receives a terrible pass into his skates and wastes his first 2-3 strides recovering. This is your example Pierre? And he does stupid crap like this all the time. Strong opinions combined with very poor logical reasoning skills.

"You see that play on the bench Chris? That wasn't just Jay McKee picking his nose on the bench, no he's hiding the grimace in his face as his hemroids flare up. Look for that to be a story all game long if anybody skates around McKee. Even if a linesman trips him, I will blame it on the hemroids, Chris."

He's wrong too often and even when he's right, he's wrong about why he's right. I don't think he's very bright and I doubt the players will either when he starts showing Spezza video footage of how he ties his skates and rants about how it's causing him to lose defensive zone face-offs.
Yeah he was right about Michalek losing speed but used a bad example to back it up. It's TV though, he talked about Michalek, talked about talking to Michalek about the knee, tried to make a story of it...and took the first (bad) example that came up. If it was possible Pierre would have just showed us youtube clips from his tenure in San Jose and just asked us to watch his burst now.

He has a good knowledge of what goes on but the thing is an example to back a story doesn't present itself to conveniently accommodate Pierre...but because the large majority of fans just believe what he says and are more worried about critiquing his creepyness, he gets away with it.

I think having him as a Gm would be a circus. I want to see it happen but not on my team.

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12-09-2010, 10:54 AM
  #975
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
It's easy if you try:
- Drafting of Muckler
- Trade deadline deals of Muckler
- Free agent signings of Murray
- Coach hiring of Murray
Yeah the difference between Muckler and Murray few seem to acknowledge is that Muckler's tenure can be properly evaluated since his picks have been given time.

Murray needed to make those signings largely because of how bad the drafting and losing key players was before him. His coach hirings are on him, his coaches have failed. But the verdict is out on his drafting, which is most important long-term...and so far it looks promising, but that could change.

People act like it's easy turning a team around that lost two star defensemen, a top line star, another top line player and a period of wasted drafts. If there wasn't a trade to turn this around for Murray then their probably won't be for another GM.

If we are successful under the next GM we get I would be absolutely shocked if it wasn't in large part due to names like Karlsson, Cowen, Rundblad, Lehner, Silfverberg, Butler ...etc. If those guys are all average, the next GM will likely need to find a gem in the draft. Free agency may be better to the next GM as those guys mentioned above are probably NHLers and will probably save us money. And trades may be easier to come with cap space.

Seemingly Murray has made being the next GM of this team easier then Muckler made it for him. Blame Murray for not walking on water, but considering why this team is where it is, he actually may have made some progress.

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