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Official Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread Part VIII

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:14 AM
  #976
enviro61
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You would just have to keep Pierre away from the dressing room to not creep the players out. I could see him giving a 'pep talk' to the guys as they are changing with his arm around them not realizing he is being awkward as all hell.

Then again I could also see him venturing into the changeroom before a game against someone like the Capitals and telling them "Ovechkin is a MONSTER, he is going to kill us tonight. The guy steam rolls teams, shoots pucks of fire off his stick and takes no prisoners..good luck guys, go get em".

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12-09-2010, 10:16 AM
  #977
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Tim Murray on the team1200 right now. Just generally sounds very frustrated, almost defeated.

"We've been trying to make trades for three weeks, we've been trying to make a small trade, minor trade, major trade. It's just very difficult to make moves right now"

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:21 AM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
Tim Murray on the team1200 right now. Just generally sounds very frustrated, almost defeated.

"We've been trying to make trades for three weeks, we've been trying to make a small trade, minor trade, major trade. It's just very difficult to make moves right now"
Gee - why is that?

A - Sens players lazy and heartless

B - most are overpaid for what they bring to the ice

C - Murray wants too much for too little

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:24 AM
  #979
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
Tim Murray on the team1200 right now. Just generally sounds very frustrated, almost defeated.

"We've been trying to make trades for three weeks, we've been trying to make a small trade, minor trade, major trade. It's just very difficult to make moves right now"
Just ****ing wait until the dealine and sell, where teams would be desperate for some veteran help, then take advantage of some team's cap structure like Philly and New Jersey then grab a player or two from them.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:25 AM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Senasnore View Post
Gee - why is that?

A - Sens players lazy and heartless

B - most are overpaid for what they bring to the ice

C - Murray wants too much for too little
D - Salary Cap + no cap space

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:25 AM
  #981
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Wouldn't mind a Mcguire & Murray tandem manning our drafting. Keep Tim Murray in current position and let Bryan stay as honorary/consulting position or something.


Last edited by ben3001: 12-09-2010 at 10:33 AM.
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Old
12-09-2010, 10:27 AM
  #982
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Wouldn't mind a Mcguire & Murray tandem manning our drafting. Keep Tim Murray in current position and let Brian stay as honorary/consulting position or something.
i'm not sure GMs around the league like dealing with Bryan Murray.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:28 AM
  #983
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Originally Posted by The Best WorstPoster View Post
i'm not sure GMs around the league like dealing with Bryan Murray.
Based on what?

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:33 AM
  #984
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Originally Posted by The Best WorstPoster View Post
i'm not sure GMs around the league like dealing with Bryan Murray.
Well, disregarding the fact that your argument is based on no tangible facts, I was talking about keeping Bryan Murray for drafting purposes.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:35 AM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Murray needed to make those signings largely because of how bad the drafting and losing key players was before him.
No. Murray's signings are his own doing. That we possibly needed more players because of poor drafting, I can accept; but Murray's off-season signings and some of the directions he put this team through were baffling or boneheaded.

SCF's 2nd line = Schaefer - Fisher - Comrie
We trade Schaefer, we let Comrie go... thank gawd Murray picked a 25 yo, hard working winger who was on a 20 goal, 47 point pace before we put him on our 4th line in Saprykin --> let go. So we only have Vermette and Eaves as secondary scoring with Fisher and we play the season without a 2nd line.

Going into the off-season: Preissing was discarded the year before, Redden is now a UFA, Meszaros is an RFA and we trade Corvo. Trading Corvo at that moment sucked, but lets say he did need to go. We let Redden go. Meszaros is our only offensive D-man and isn't signed. The solution is to sign Jason freaking Smith! Phillips, Volchenkov, Smith, Richardson, Schubert, B.Lee and Meszaros which became Kuba. Phillips was 2nd in scoring with 22 points.

Kovalev... Why? I understand the Heatley panic, but it seemed like we were becoming a fast, forechecking, hardworking team. The team Murray kept talking about after the loss to the Ducks. Why would you sign Kovalev of all people? He's slowing our forecheck down as we speak when he's on the ice. And if we do sign him, why is he not on the 1st PP unit? I mean, the guy could ride pine all game, it doesn't matter to me. But a guy with ability like that needs to be out on the 1st PP unit every sinlge time.

Gonchar? ... Not completely terrible, but more of the same questionable decision making with our D-corps.

We start coming out of the SCF's run with a Top-6 D-corps of 4-2 offensive mix.
Murray doesn't like the composition, within a year we're 4-2 defensive mix.
Murray doesn't like that composition going into last season and all of a sudden we're 3-3... for the best season of Murray's tenure as GM.
Murray doesn't like the composition and all of a sudden we're at 4-2 offensive again.

3-3 certainly isn't a hard and fast rule, but why don't we stick with for a while?

Not to mention that we add Gonchar long term just after Karlsson breaks out, we acquire Rundblad in trade and Wiercioch is still doing well. 3 offensive RD-men.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:40 AM
  #986
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What if the UFA lineup in Ottawa was 0? The best UFAs won't come for anything less than a big overpayment and the overrated aged ones will still only come if we are the only team that's willing to give that extra mil or extra year.

Not that I can source it but most people accept Melnyk wanted Kovalev. But either way...Kovalev or nothing?

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:47 AM
  #987
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Not to mention that we add Gonchar long term just after Karlsson breaks out, we acquire Rundblad in trade and Wiercioch is still doing well. 3 offensive RD-men.
We acquired Rundblad because he was the best player available to us, we didn't look for him, St Louis came to us. I still wouldn't be surprised if Rundblad never plays a game here, I wouldn't be surprised either way though. Weircioch...well there's no sure thing on him and apparently they knew that regardless of what his season in Denver was like.

He's made some questionable decisions, but he gets a bad wrap for being the guy here while the ship sank. Questioning specific team building choices is a little nit picky when talking about a team that lost several star players in a 3-4 year period. The team we had before, it barely mattered what our structure was....we went to the Cup with an average team aside from an absolutely dominant 1st line.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:53 AM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
He's made some questionable decisions, but he gets a bad wrap for being the guy here while the ship sank. Questioning specific team building choices is a little nit picky when talking about a team that lost several star players in a 3-4 year period. The team we had before, it barely mattered what our structure was....we went to the Cup with an average team aside from an absolutely dominant 1st line.
Nitpicky?

We need all offensive D-men.
No wait, we need all defensive D-men.
We need hard working grinders.
No wait, we need slow prima donnas.

I didn't always agree with Muckler, but I knew what to expect and I understood what he was trying to do.
I rarely understand what Murray is trying to do and am usually just so caught off guard by what he's done recently that I just hope for the best. I like his deadlines and his drafts... but his summers are complete disasters.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:05 AM
  #989
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Nitpicky?

We need all offensive D-men.
No wait, we need all defensive D-men.
We need hard working grinders.
No wait, we need slow prima donnas.

When did we have all of anything. Take what you can get, or take nothing. The flexbility when you have to rely on trades and free agency just isn't there. Questionable decisions sure, but I think your overestimating the amount of choices we had....maybe I'm underestimating?

I didn't always agree with Muckler, but I knew what to expect and I understood what he was trying to do.
I rarely understand what Murray is trying to do and am usually just so caught off guard by what he's done recently that I just hope for the best. I like his deadlines and his drafts... but his summers are complete disasters.

Wasn't hard to know what to expect from a GM that came in to a built product with tons of assets. A GM that takes over a breaking product in a market that requires winning to make any sense has his hands tied a little more, especially when there were no young cheap players coming up
Muckler could have twiddled his thumbs for 5 years and possibly won a Cup, his worst team got the furthest. You could argue he built that "worst team" perfectly....but I dunno...that first line kinda carried them.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:19 AM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Based on what?
Based on the inevitable leaks to the media. Why deal with a guy if he can't keep his mouth shut until the deal is done.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:20 AM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
When did we have all of anything. Take what you can get, or take nothing. The flexbility when you have to rely on trades and free agency just isn't there. Questionable decisions sure, but I think your overestimating the amount of choices we had....maybe I'm underestimating?
I think you're underestimating his flexibility and going above and beyond to defend Murray.

These were his choices going into the summers that he made with his cap space to build whatever team he thought he was building.

Not everything is about having superstar draft picks on entry level salaries constantly ready to come in.

Boston quickly became one of the best teams post-lockout... why?
Zdeno Chara
Marc Savard
Tim Thomas
Claude Julien

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Wasn't hard to know what to expect from a GM that came in to a built product with tons of assets. A GM that takes over a breaking product in a market that requires winning to make any sense has his hands tied a little more, especially when there were no young cheap players coming up
Muckler could have twiddled his thumbs for 5 years and possibly won a Cup, his worst team got the furthest. You could argue he built that "worst team" perfectly....but I dunno...that first line kinda carried them.

Muckler could have twiddled his thumbs for 5 years and possibly won a Cup, his worst team got the furthest. You could argue he built that "worst team" perfectly....but I dunno...that first line kinda carried them.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:20 AM
  #992
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
Tim Murray on the team1200 right now. Just generally sounds very frustrated, almost defeated.

"We've been trying to make trades for three weeks, we've been trying to make a small trade, minor trade, major trade. It's just very difficult to make moves right now"
If management sounds defeated then half the battle is won. Hopefully nothing ridiculous comes their way and things stay relatively the same for a while up to a point where they realize there's no saving this season and then start selling.

Of course having the Sens turn the whole boat around and go on a tear would be even better, fantastic even. But you can't count on that happening.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:26 AM
  #993
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Well, disregarding the fact that your argument is based on no tangible facts, I was talking about keeping Bryan Murray for drafting purposes.
To his credit, Rutherford wasn't too impressed with the extent of Eaves' injury after that trade. He also pointed out how Murray asked for a draft pick for a silly reason.

I don't think it's a big stretch. That said, the fact that Murray is probably batting belowe the Mendoza line with regards to successful trades, I would think most GMs would love trading with him, so I don't know...

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12-09-2010, 11:28 AM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
Tim Murray on the team1200 right now. Just generally sounds very frustrated, almost defeated.

"We've been trying to make trades for three weeks, we've been trying to make a small trade, minor trade, major trade. It's just very difficult to make moves right now"
I thought he really emphasized the right now, he then went on to say it will get easier as it goes along.
Those wanting change, sounded to me like your going to get it.
He seemed pretty frustrated to me, so I got the feeling something is going to happen sooner or later, and that they aren't afraid of big deals, so could be interesting.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:44 AM
  #995
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
I think you're underestimating his flexibility and going above and beyond to defend Murray.

I'm not sure about that, his job here has been made tough. And no one can pretend to know what kind of options we had with UFA. My defence of Murray is this: His decisions are not the main reason we are here now compared to where we were 5 years ago. It seems obvious, but he gets blamed for turning a contender into a non-contender


Not everything is about having superstar draft picks on entry level salaries constantly ready to come in.

In Ottawa's history superstar draft picks have been our only source of success. Chara wasn't a draft pick but he was involved in a draft trade, turning a nothing player into something.

Boston quickly became one of the best teams post-lockout... why?
Zdeno Chara
Marc Savard
Tim Thomas
Claude Julien

Should have kept Chara. Did we have the means to sign a Savard? Again, the UFA argument...do any of them really want to come to Ottawa? Murray has failed with coach signings, I've said that several times. And Tim Thomas...did anyone see that coming?
My only point on Murray is that he was dealt a ****** hand. The only way we've found success in Ottawa in our brief history is through the draft, where we made it look easy. The only way we've ever really developed a team in Ottawa is the part of Murray's job that can't really be evaluated yet and at this time looking promising.

I'll change my tone when a new GM comes in and builds this team through trades and UFA at a significant level, like your Boston example (I'm sure we will try and sign Shea Weber, will he want to?). The coaches are on Murray, I can't say that the UFA failures and trades are on him though. The trades have been average and the signings haven't worked...but in regards to the signings....history tells me we probably didn't have many options.

It's time for Murray to go...but I don't think his jobs been as bad as people think considering the hand he was dealt. We'll see what kind of job he actually did over the next 3-5 years like we've given Muckler to evaluate his tenure.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:48 AM
  #996
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To his credit, Rutherford wasn't too impressed with the extent of Eaves' injury after that trade. He also pointed out how Murray asked for a draft pick for a silly reason.

I don't think it's a big stretch. That said, the fact that Murray is probably batting belowe the Mendoza line with regards to successful trades, I would think most GMs would love trading with him, so I don't know...
Don't think he was too too unimpressed if Rutherford would deal again with Murray trading Cullen.
I think we should all be happy that Murray was able to trade away a super injured Eaves and got something good in return.

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Old
12-09-2010, 11:59 AM
  #997
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First round picks since 2002

Muckler

16-Jakub Klepis
29- Patrick Eaves
23- Andrej Meszaros
9 - Brian Lee
28- Nick Foligno

Murray

29- Jim O'brien
15- Erik Karlsson
9- Jared Cowen/17- David Rundblad

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Old
12-09-2010, 12:02 PM
  #998
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How much credibility does Wayne Scanlan have. I find most of his articles irritating but does he have legit sources in org? He's saying rumours but maybe he's speculating.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/...667/story.html

Accordig to him there are rumours of Pierre McGuire coming in if we continue like this

Well that would complete our descent from mediocrity to circus-like gong show.
I wonder if he would still plan on implementing his "if i was running that organization....." retardedness.

Players will / "would be weighed in on a daily basis to ensure fitness" and it sounded as though he would be present and supervise the weigh ins. that was one of the gems.
Of course it sounded like he made it up on the spot during the morning show when someone asked him about the health of a minnesota player.
"If I had taken that job in Minessota one of the first things i would have done is implement physical testing and daily weigh-ins."
really? that's the first thing he'd do?

I honestly believe that he would be an unmitigated disaster as a GM or Head coach.
He loves the game, spends all of his time on the game and he doesnt know half as much as he should given the amount of time he's spent doing it. Dont get me wrong he remembers a lot of info, but his ability to process and react to new information is atrocious.
He has no feel for things. its as if an awkward robot has been filled with facts and then pre-programmed to spit them out in varying degrees of passion in semi random fashion.

i dont know if i could handle knowing that moron is running our team. i have a hard enough time having to see him between the benches broadcasting at our games.

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Old
12-09-2010, 12:09 PM
  #999
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Originally Posted by Sean9 View Post
First round picks since 2002

Muckler

16-Jakub Klepis
29- Patrick Eaves
23- Andrej Meszaros
9 - Brian Lee
28- Nick Foligno

Murray

29- Jim O'brien
15- Erik Karlsson
9- Jared Cowen/17- David Rundblad
You could pretty much scrap O'Brien. Chosen with Muckler's scouts and looks like a Muckler 1st rounder (American/Minnesota). Murray was the coach, I doubt he got much scouting time for himself....he went through that draft depending completely on Muckler's scouts.

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12-09-2010, 12:21 PM
  #1000
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Originally Posted by Sean9 View Post
First round picks since 2002

Muckler

16-Jakub Klepis
29- Patrick Eaves
23- Andrej Meszaros
9 - Brian Lee
28- Nick Foligno

Murray

29- Jim O'brien
1
5- Erik Karlsson
9- Jared Cowen/17- David Rundblad
lol no, he was the coach when Muckler made that pick.

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