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Where does Chara rank?

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11-10-2010, 04:00 PM
  #1
tarheelhockey
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Where does Chara rank?

Just looking for some feedback on Chara's place in hockey history. Specifically:

- Where does he rank among defensemen all-time?

- Where does he rank among shutdown defensemen?

- Is he a Hall of Famer? If not, what more does he need to do?

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11-10-2010, 04:05 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Just looking for some feedback on Chara's place in hockey history. Specifically:

- Where does he rank among defensemen all-time?

- Where does he rank among shutdown defensemen?

- Is he a Hall of Famer? If not, what more does he need to do?
1) On my list of "all time defensemen," he is about #50. A little bit behind Rob Blake and Doug Wilson. Similar level to Butch Bouchard and Carl Brewer.

2) Hard to say. Probably slightly better than his overall ranking as his offense isn't as good as those ahead of him. Definitely a better defensive player than Rob Blake. The big negative is obviously that he never shut anyone down in the playoffs.

3) He's a HOFer, but a weak one. His regular season resume (Norris, 4 post season All-Stars, famous for being the biggest player ever) is good enough. He'll be a shoo-in if he ever has playoff success (doesn't need to be a Cup necessarily, but leading a team past the 2nd round would be nice).

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11-10-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Just looking for some feedback on Chara's place in hockey history. Specifically:

- Where does he rank among defensemen all-time?
Hard to say, I like the idea that he's in Doug Wilson/Rob Blake territory. I can accept that.

Quote:
- Where does he rank among shutdown defensemen?
Doing a list like that would take some time. Obviously he's been good defensively his whole career, but there are many I put ahead of him.

Quote:
- Is he a Hall of Famer? If not, what more does he need to do?
He'll be in the HHOF. He's among the top tier defenseman of this generation. He won a Norris (only Wilson and Carlyle won it and aren't in there). But more postseason success won't hurt. It would be nice if we could see him lead Boston further in the playoffs.

On a side note, he ranks higher than anything else as an all-time heavyweight. In other words, go to any era and Chara can fight the big boys and compete. He'd be feared in any era.

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11-11-2010, 02:25 PM
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1. I like when he is compared to Blake. That is fair. He fits in that category, but I see him a little bit better than Blake. Call me a homer...

2. I really dont know, never thought about it. The good point where we could start is: when he is around #50 among Ds all-time and his defense is better than his offence, I see him a little bit higher... #30-#40?

3. He is lock, he has 4 AST and Norris and from marketing point of view, you really want to have tallest player of history there especially when he is worthy it.

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11-11-2010, 02:48 PM
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1. I like when he is compared to Blake. That is fair. He fits in that category, but I see him a little bit better than Blake. Call me a homer...
I actually got a chance to compare the two men extensively in the last All-Time draft and concluded that their regular season peaks are almost exactly the same in value. Similar award recognition, similarly thought of as "almost the best in the world, but not quite" over a period of about 5-6 years. (Blake being better offensively and Chara defensively, basically).

I pick Blake as a little better for two reasons:

1) Playoffs. Blake had a couple of very good runs, and Chara hasn't yet.
2) Longevity. Okay, not fair to Chara, but while Blake's peak ended quite some time ago, he was still a solid defenseman and veteran leader until he was 40. Chara hasn't done that yet.

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11-11-2010, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
2) Hard to say. Probably slightly better than his overall ranking as his offense isn't as good as those ahead of him. Definitely a better defensive player than Rob Blake. The big negative is obviously that he never shut anyone down in the playoffs.

3) He's a HOFer, but a weak one. His regular season resume (Norris, 4 post season All-Stars, famous for being the biggest player ever) is good enough. He'll be a shoo-in if he ever has playoff success (doesn't need to be a Cup necessarily, but leading a team past the 2nd round would be nice).
This and this. He's teetering on the brink for me in terms of HOF status(although I'm more than willing to admit that I'm a bit biased against the teams he's played for). He needs a dominant playoff run to cement his legacy.

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11-11-2010, 03:06 PM
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TDMM: Yes, their peak are almost same, I saw both of them during their peaks and I still think Chara is more dominant during games.

Of course he need a PO success. His lost playoff serie from 3-0 to 3-4 definetly hurt him much in my eyes, too.

Nvm... Commitee will vote in guy with such hardware and record of hardest shot and biggest guy. He has good media picture.

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11-11-2010, 04:07 PM
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Slightly above Blake if for nothing else than for his imposing figure. If Bruins would get to SCF, a strong playoff performance by Chara could raise him quite a bit in my list.

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11-11-2010, 04:53 PM
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Zdeno Chara is a good defenceman and do not know where I would rank him among the best defenceman in history however I must ask this question

What has Chara done to be eligible for the HHOF?

Maybe my standards are too high but to me he has not done enough. Yes he won a Norris Trophy which is a big deal but just winning a Norris Trophy doesn't mean that he is a lock to be in the HHOF

When you talk about defensive defenceman I would take Serge Savard over Chara and Savard never won a Norris trophy

He was just good in Ottawa not great and in Boston has one Norris that is it still not what I consider a great career. If you take the time Chara has played in the NHL He is not the top defenceman nor is he probably in the top 5 for the time he has played in the NHL

His playoffs are okay but once again not great. I mean Ottawa made it to the finals after he left.

Now Chara still has years left to make a case for the HHOF but right now I just don't see how he has done enough to be considered a HHOF.

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11-11-2010, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Merya View Post
Slightly above Blake if for nothing else than for his imposing figure. If Bruins would get to SCF, a strong playoff performance by Chara could raise him quite a bit in my list.
I don't understand what you mean. Chara is better than Blake because he is taller?

If anything, Blake was more intimidating out there as the 2nd best open ice hitter of his era (after some guy playing in NJ).

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11-11-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
Zdeno Chara is a good defenceman and do not know where I would rank him among the best defenceman in history however I must ask this question

What has Chara done to be eligible for the HHOF?

Maybe my standards are too high but to me he has not done enough. Yes he won a Norris Trophy which is a big deal but just winning a Norris Trophy doesn't mean that he is a lock to be in the HHOF

When you talk about defensive defenceman I would take Serge Savard over Chara and Savard never won a Norris trophy

He was just good in Ottawa not great and in Boston has one Norris that is it still not what I consider a great career. If you take the time Chara has played in the NHL He is not the top defenceman nor is he probably in the top 5 for the time he has played in the NHL

His playoffs are okay but once again not great. I mean Ottawa made it to the finals after he left.

Now Chara still has years left to make a case for the HHOF but right now I just don't see how he has done enough to be considered a HHOF.
4 times a post-season all-star.

2003-04 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
2005-06 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
2007-08 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
2008-09 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)

The only eligible defenseman with 4 postseason all star nods not in the HHOF is Carl Brewer, and he would almost certainly be in if he didn't leave the NHL for 5 years of his prime to play in Europe.

Awards aside, Chara is pretty much considered the 4th best defenseman of his era, behind Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger, which makes it hard to keep him out.

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11-11-2010, 05:10 PM
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tarheelhockey
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I think people underrate Chara's defensive ability TBH. He doesn't have a bunch of highlight-reel hits at center ice, and he's not especially fast or agile when it comes to chasing down skaters. But he has a way of just completely swallowing up plays as they develop, maybe even the best of his generation at that. And it really becomes meaningful playing in Boston, because an opponent might wait 10 minutes for a good scoring opportunity to arise... and Chara nullifies it in the most seemingly impossible ways.

I couldn't even find a Youtube to illustrate this point. It's not highlight reel stuff, just ridiculously effective poke checks and rub-offs at the exact moment that the play is about to turn productive.

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11-11-2010, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post

What has Chara done to be eligible for the HHOF?
As DMM just pointed out, being named an All-Star four times is a virtual lock.

Add in his Norris, (and multiple nominations), and you have your answer.

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11-11-2010, 06:05 PM
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If Chara retired today, it'd be a tossup if he made it

But he's like 32 or 33 and has, let's say, about 7 years left in him, assuming he plays that long and doesn't turn into garbage along the way, he's definitely in.

Where he ranks against the all-time greats, I can't say, but I'd agree he needs a memorable playoff run to cement his legacy. It could have been last year if Krejci didn't get hurt, the minutes he logged in the Buffalo series, those long OT games, and the way he shut them down was amazing. But losing the Philly series the way they did pretty much negates anything any Bruin did that postseason, sadly.

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11-11-2010, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I actually got a chance to compare the two men extensively in the last All-Time draft and concluded that their regular season peaks are almost exactly the same in value. Similar award recognition, similarly thought of as "almost the best in the world, but not quite" over a period of about 5-6 years. (Blake being better offensively and Chara defensively, basically).

I pick Blake as a little better for two reasons:

1) Playoffs. Blake had a couple of very good runs, and Chara hasn't yet.
2) Longevity. Okay, not fair to Chara, but while Blake's peak ended quite some time ago, he was still a solid defenseman and veteran leader until he was 40. Chara hasn't done that yet.
I was thinking the same thing when the Blake comp came up.

IMO he is behind Blake, at this point, but like stated earlier some playoff success wouldn't hurt his case.

He is still only 33 so there is still another 5 years to evaluate him and he can still rise on the list.

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11-11-2010, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think people underrate Chara's defensive ability TBH. He doesn't have a bunch of highlight-reel hits at center ice, and he's not especially fast or agile when it comes to chasing down skaters. But he has a way of just completely swallowing up plays as they develop, maybe even the best of his generation at that. And it really becomes meaningful playing in Boston, because an opponent might wait 10 minutes for a good scoring opportunity to arise... and Chara nullifies it in the most seemingly impossible ways.

I couldn't even find a Youtube to illustrate this point. It's not highlight reel stuff, just ridiculously effective poke checks and rub-offs at the exact moment that the play is about to turn productive.
Yeah, I think height and reach are really the invisible advantage in hockey. Chara's a great example of this.

It's common for big players to get knocked by fans/media for being unskilled or clumsy (usually defencemen) or lazy (usually forwards). But sometimes big guys can just make more plays and make it look easy.

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11-11-2010, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
4 times a post-season all-star.

2003-04 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)
2005-06 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
2007-08 NHL NHL All-Star Team (2nd)
2008-09 NHL NHL All-Star Team (1st)

The only eligible defenseman with 4 postseason all star nods not in the HHOF is Carl Brewer, and he would almost certainly be in if he didn't leave the NHL for 5 years of his prime to play in Europe.

Awards aside, Chara is pretty much considered the 4th best defenseman of his era, behind Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger, which makes it hard to keep him out.
It is not about hard to keep a player out of the HHOF it is about what makes a player deserved to be in the HHOF

Now of course there is still plenty of time for chara to do more no question about that.

As for the top 4 in his era Chara started playing in the NHL in 1997-98. You mean that he is ahead of Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar. Now Gonchar is a purely offensive defenceman howeve he has been a number one defenceman in the NHL for quite a long time and was a key member of the Capitals getting to the Cup final and the Penguins as well. At one time he was considered the best defenceman in the league not name Lidstrom as far as offensive skill goes. Now of course he doesn't match up to Chara for defensive abilities but he is not that bad in his own end either

Rob Blake is another that was amazing and Chara and him are close as some posters have said. I give the edge to Blake though

Right now Chara is definately a top 5 defenceman in the league no question. Some could even argue he is the best defenceman in the league. The problem I have is that even when he won the Norris almost any GM would rather have Lidstrom on their team over Chara.

Don't get me wrong Chara is good but right now when you look at his career he is not great. He could be considered great after a few more years. Without doing a long list of every year. Chara has probably only been a top 5 defenceman the last 5 or 6 years. He has played 13 years in the NHL. Just like alot of defenceman it took him time to develope into the player that he was but often the best defencemen are able to play at a high level almost from the beginning. Look at Rob Blake. His first full year with the Kings and in the playoffs he was one of their best defenceman. It took Chara a while to be considered a teams best defenceman

As for awards and All Star Teams. Chris Pronger only has 1 Norris trophy. Only has 4 all star teams selections and 1 rookie team selection. Now both players have the same amount of hardware but that doesn't mean that Chara is even in the same breath as Pronger. Now of course he might be one day maybe but not right now

Chara is an imposing pressence on the ice and for a big guy actually skates very well. He does so much well although, I just don't feel that he is HHOF worthy yet

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11-11-2010, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
It is not about hard to keep a player out of the HHOF it is about what makes a player deserved to be in the HHOF

Now of course there is still plenty of time for chara to do more no question about that.

As for the top 4 in his era Chara started playing in the NHL in 1997-98. You mean that he is ahead of Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar. Now Gonchar is a purely offensive defenceman howeve he has been a number one defenceman in the NHL for quite a long time and was a key member of the Capitals getting to the Cup final and the Penguins as well. At one time he was considered the best defenceman in the league not name Lidstrom as far as offensive skill goes. Now of course he doesn't match up to Chara for defensive abilities but he is not that bad in his own end either

Rob Blake is another that was amazing and Chara and him are close as some posters have said. I give the edge to Blake though
I said like 5 times in this thread that I think Rob Blake is a slight step up from Chara. I also don't consider them the same generation really, as Chara was a clumsy oaf his first few years in the league and didn't really hit his stride until after Blake's prime was over.

And Chara is absolutely better than Gonchar. Gonchar was a sieve in his own zone for most of his career. Someone looked at the numbers and he was actually a #5 defenseman at even strength for the Capitals at some point! (while playing big minutes on the PP, of course). Even in Pittsburgh, he was no better than "pretty good" in his own zone, and that only lasted a couple of seasons.

Quote:
Right now Chara is definately a top 5 defenceman in the league no question. Some could even argue he is the best defenceman in the league. The problem I have is that even when he won the Norris almost any GM would rather have Lidstrom on their team over Chara.
So the argument is that a GM wouldn't take him over Lidstrom so he should be kept out of the Hall? The standards aren't that strict. If they are, Ray Bourque would have been the only defenseman inducted into the Hall of Fame who played between the mid 80s and mid 90s, and that obviously isn't the case.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong Chara is good but right now when you look at his career he is not great. He could be considered great after a few more years. Without doing a long list of every year. Chara has probably only been a top 5 defenceman the last 5 or 6 years.
I agree that he has only been on top for 5 or 6 years. That's also the same length of time that Scott Niedermayer and Rob Blake were top defensemen, and nobody seems to have a problem with them being inducted.

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He has played 13 years in the NHL. Just like alot of defenceman it took him time to develope into the player that he was but often the best defencemen are able to play at a high level almost from the beginning. Look at Rob Blake. His first full year with the Kings and in the playoffs he was one of their best defenceman. It took Chara a while to be considered a teams best defenceman
Yeah, it took Chara awhile to round into form. So what? He spent just as long on top as either Blake or Niedermayer did. Blake just peaked early is his career, Niedermayer late, and Chara in the middle... so far.

Quote:
As for awards and All Star Teams. Chris Pronger only has 1 Norris trophy. Only has 4 all star teams selections and 1 rookie team selection. Now both players have the same amount of hardware but that doesn't mean that Chara is even in the same breath as Pronger. Now of course he might be one day maybe but not right now
Obviously not. As I stated above in the very same post you quoted, Chara is the 4th best defenseman of his generation, behind Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger. Of course, there is more to a defenseman's resume than how many seasons he was voted as Top 4 in the World. But it's still a big part.

Quote:
Chara is an imposing pressence on the ice and for a big guy actually skates very well. He does so much well although, I just don't feel that he is HHOF worthy yet
Like I said, he'd be just about the only defenseman with his resume to be kept out. I do agree, however, that a little playoff success would go a long way towards making him a lock.

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11-11-2010, 11:52 PM
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I said like 5 times in this thread that I think Rob Blake is a slight step up from Chara. I also don't consider them the same generation really, as Chara was a clumsy oaf his first few years in the league and didn't really hit his stride until after Blake's prime was over.
Chara may have looked like a clumsy oaf in Long Island, but even in his last two years there he was pretty good. He was their top penalty killing defender by ice time in 1999-00 and 2000-01. And he was drawing the shutdown assignments at least by 2000-01.

I remember going to a Sens game in 2000 with seats right by the corner glass. I wasn't too familiar with Chara, but the man was so big in person I couldn't help but notice him every time he was on the ice. And he was going up against Alexei Yashin all game. I really noticed because Yashin was a big, strong guy himself, and it was incredible to see the two of them battling in the corners close up.

After that season, Zdeno Chara was traded to the Ottawa Senators...for Alexei Yashin! And now you know...the rest of the story.

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11-12-2010, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
It is not about hard to keep a player out of the HHOF it is about what makes a player deserved to be in the HHOF

Now of course there is still plenty of time for chara to do more no question about that.

As for the top 4 in his era Chara started playing in the NHL in 1997-98. You mean that he is ahead of Rob Blake and Sergei Gonchar. Now Gonchar is a purely offensive defenceman howeve he has been a number one defenceman in the NHL for quite a long time and was a key member of the Capitals getting to the Cup final and the Penguins as well. At one time he was considered the best defenceman in the league not name Lidstrom as far as offensive skill goes. Now of course he doesn't match up to Chara for defensive abilities but he is not that bad in his own end either

Rob Blake is another that was amazing and Chara and him are close as some posters have said. I give the edge to Blake though

Right now Chara is definately a top 5 defenceman in the league no question. Some could even argue he is the best defenceman in the league. The problem I have is that even when he won the Norris almost any GM would rather have Lidstrom on their team over Chara.

Don't get me wrong Chara is good but right now when you look at his career he is not great. He could be considered great after a few more years. Without doing a long list of every year. Chara has probably only been a top 5 defenceman the last 5 or 6 years. He has played 13 years in the NHL. Just like alot of defenceman it took him time to develope into the player that he was but often the best defencemen are able to play at a high level almost from the beginning. Look at Rob Blake. His first full year with the Kings and in the playoffs he was one of their best defenceman. It took Chara a while to be considered a teams best defenceman

As for awards and All Star Teams. Chris Pronger only has 1 Norris trophy. Only has 4 all star teams selections and 1 rookie team selection. Now both players have the same amount of hardware but that doesn't mean that Chara is even in the same breath as Pronger. Now of course he might be one day maybe but not right now

Chara is an imposing pressence on the ice and for a big guy actually skates very well. He does so much well although, I just don't feel that he is HHOF worthy yet

I think part of the issue is more that it doesn't feel like his name has been around as one of the top defenders for long enough, and I was kind of thinking that as well, but then you look at his career, and he's been one of the better defensemen for awhile.

You mention Rob Blake being good for the Kings right away, and it's true, he had a very good rookie season, the fell off a bit in his sophomore year, but then had another two strong years, including a good playoffs during their finals run. However, while he was a good defenseman, he was never really considered among the best. In fact, Blake never had any Norris votes until his Norris win in '98, when he was 28. Chara finished 7th in Norris voting in his 2nd year in Ottawa, when he was 25, and then finished 2nd to Niedermayer in Norris voting the following season. So he was actually very good from a young age, and he's basically been at that level or better ever since (though he struggled somewhat in his first year in Boston). Granted Blake probably had more competition in his early years, but basically Chara's prime is right on par, without the playoff legacy.

And I think that's the biggest issue with Chara. Nothing really stands out about him when you think of him, other than his size. There's no real memorable moment, or playoff run that really defines his career. It's funny that a player so good and so distinctive has a career that feels almost boring. Like some have said, I think a playoff run would really cement his legacy.

As it stands, if Chara retired today, I'm not sure if I'd consider him a HoFer. I'm not sure if he's had a HoF career yet. However, he's definitely a HoF caliber player, if that makes sense.

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11-13-2010, 04:28 AM
  #21
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I don't understand what you mean. Chara is better than Blake because he is taller?

If anything, Blake was more intimidating out there as the 2nd best open ice hitter of his era (after some guy playing in NJ).
Bigger, better, faster, more. Isn't that what ya say over the pond?
But seriously, Chara's reach puts him slightly over Blake for me. If Chara was any bigger he could be in the middle of the rink and stop all passes.

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11-13-2010, 08:21 PM
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I said like 5 times in this thread that I think Rob Blake is a slight step up from Chara. I also don't consider them the same generation really, as Chara was a clumsy oaf his first few years in the league and didn't really hit his stride until after Blake's prime was over.

And Chara is absolutely better than Gonchar. Gonchar was a sieve in his own zone for most of his career. Someone looked at the numbers and he was actually a #5 defenseman at even strength for the Capitals at some point! (while playing big minutes on the PP, of course). Even in Pittsburgh, he was no better than "pretty good" in his own zone, and that only lasted a couple of seasons.



So the argument is that a GM wouldn't take him over Lidstrom so he should be kept out of the Hall? The standards aren't that strict. If they are, Ray Bourque would have been the only defenseman inducted into the Hall of Fame who played between the mid 80s and mid 90s, and that obviously isn't the case.



I agree that he has only been on top for 5 or 6 years. That's also the same length of time that Scott Niedermayer and Rob Blake were top defensemen, and nobody seems to have a problem with them being inducted.



Yeah, it took Chara awhile to round into form. So what? He spent just as long on top as either Blake or Niedermayer did. Blake just peaked early is his career, Niedermayer late, and Chara in the middle... so far.



Obviously not. As I stated above in the very same post you quoted, Chara is the 4th best defenseman of his generation, behind Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Pronger. Of course, there is more to a defenseman's resume than how many seasons he was voted as Top 4 in the World. But it's still a big part.



Like I said, he'd be just about the only defenseman with his resume to be kept out. I do agree, however, that a little playoff success would go a long way towards making him a lock.
The problem when stating a generation is when does a generation start and end. That si very hard to say. Because the problem is that sometimes when you pick a year to start for a genereation then a players previous years get cut off. I feel that has a player Chara is almost as good as Blake and in some ways is better. However as far as a career Chara is still quite behind Blake in my opinion.

Oh Gonchar is aweful in his own end but as far as offensive defenceman goes for the longest time Gonchar was considered the best offensive defenceman by some experts. He was even considered better offensively then Lidstrom the reason he couldn't win the Norris is because of his defensive play. I am just saying that if you look at Chara's years during those years for a while Gonchar was considered one of the best defenceman in the league

My argument is that even though he won a Norris it doesn't automatically earn him a spot in the HHOF. That is my argument

Scott Niedermayer was a top 5 defenceman longer then 5 years and so was Blake. Now of course I have not gone back on done it but just might to see if I am right. I mean it is easy to say these things but when you have to actually pick the top 5 every year it could be different. I am just saying that from watching the NHL for a long time I find it hard to say that right now Chara deserves to be in the HHOF. Or that he is a lock to be put in

Well the thing is this. Rob Blake peaked early but continued to play well despite being an older defenceman. Niedermayer peaked in th emiddle of his career but when he was younger he was a major part of the Devils winnng. I mean in 1995 Neidermayer was important to the Devils in the playoffs. He even scored a big goal against the Red Wings in game 1 or 2 I forget the game. So yes maybe Niedermayer was not great from the beginning but he was above average to good. Where as Chara at the beginning of his career was a 5th or 6th defenceman at best. Until he went to Ottawa and then after a few years became the defenceman that he turned into

Awards and All star Teams can be important but are only extras in a players career things that you use to put a player over the top when getting in the HHOF or being considered better then a certain player. It is how the person performed on the ice that brings him to the table and right now to me Chara hasn't done enough but of course that is as of right now. In a few years I might be advocating for him to be in the HHOF. I just think right now he has to do more

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11-14-2010, 02:55 AM
  #23
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I went and did the top 5 defenceman every year as far as my opinion goes. It is easy for me to say I have Chara only as a top 5 defenceman for the last 5 years or that Rob Blake was a top 5 player more then Chara. So I went and made a list of the top 5 every year starting the first year that Chara played in the NHL

Now of course it is just my opinion but it is one of my reasonings that Chara right now doesn't belong in the HHOF. Also they aren't in order of top 5 they are in any order and just because a player is not in the top 5 doesn't mean I didn't think he had a good year. Also for the most part they aren't what the NHL decided in their voting either

1997-98
Niklas Lidstrom
Scott Neidermayer
Rob Blake
Larry Murphy
Sergei Zubov

1998-99
Niklas Lidstrom
Al Macinnis
Brian Leetch
Larry Murphy
Sergei Zubov

1999-00
Niklas Lidstrom
Chris Pronger
Rob Blake
Segei Gonchar
Scott Stevens

2000-01
Niklas Lidstrom
Rob Blake
Ray Bourque
Brian Leetch
Sergei Gonchar

2001-02
Niklas Lidstrom
Sergei Gonchar
Rob Blake
Chris Pronger
Ed Jovanovski

2002-03
Niklas Lidstrom
Sergei Gonchar
Al MacInnis
Rob Blake
Sergei Zubov

2003-04
Sergei Gonchar
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger
Rob Blake
Bryan McCabe
It pains me to put McCabe in the top 5 but he did have a good year

2005-06
Niklas Lidstrom
Scott Niedermayer
Bryan McCabe
Chris Pronger
Sergei Zubov
Once again putting Mccabe does pain me but can't deny that he did well

2006-07
Niklas Lidstrom
Scott Niedermayer
Sergei Gonchar
Chris Pronger
Sheldon Souray
Another year where it pains me to put an offensive guy over others but Souray did score alot of goals as a defenceman for Montreal

2007-08
Niklas Lidstrom
Sergei Gonchar
Zdeno Chara
Dion Phaneuf
Mike Green

2008-09
Mike Green
Niklas Lidstrom
Scott Niedermayer
Zdeno Chara
Shea Weber

2009-10
Mike Green
Duncan Keith
Drew Doughty
Chris Pronger
Niklas Lidstrom

Now once again this is just my opinion and I expect a lot to complain about them but that is how I feel every year. Oh for the record it is just regular season and just that year not their career up to that year

The problem I have is that guys like Zubov were a top defenceman even more years so far then Chara. Now not being in the top 5 doesn't mean I think Chara sucks as I was amazed that I didn't have him top 5 as much as the all star team voting did but it was how I feel. I mean I have Mccabe twice on my list and it pains me to have him there but even if he is that doesn't make him a great defenceman he just had 2 good years.

This is why I don't see him as in the HHOF right now. Sergei Gonchar is the second best Offensive defenceman in the NHL during this time. Probably the second best offensive defenceman of this generation. Could be argued as the best but that is for another time. Zdeno Chara is not the second best defensive defenceman of his generation. Nor is he the second best offensive defenceman in his generation. For all round play he is not even the second best defenceman for that. Yet Chara is almost in the HHOF but not too many would consider Gonchar for the HHOF yet as a career Gonchar has had a better career. This is just about regular season. When you talk about playoffs Gonchar is even better.

Maybe my standards are too high. Maybe I was spoiled seeing the great defenceman I grew up watching playing great almost from the start of their careers. Being a top defenceman for a long time. Then looking at them and comparing them to other great defenceman like Doug Harvey, Brad Park etc... and asking are they as good as them or better. Does Chara belong in the HHOF I mean is he has good all time like a Borje Salming or Vyachelsav Fetisov. Is he has great as a Larry Murphy or Doug Wilson. Was he has solid defensively as a Scott Stevens or a Rod Langway. Right now to me it is no

I don't know I just don't feel right now he is in and maybe not as close as others either. But their is still so much hockey left to play. That in 5 years I might be arguing that he belongs who knows

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11-14-2010, 08:19 AM
  #24
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I question seriously some of the picks from above? No Chelios in the earliest years there? Stevens only once? Looks like assessing defencemen by looking at offensive stats.

Anyway I am a Sens fan. I saw Chara play a ton and after he left with Boston as well. I am a HUGE Chara fan too. But it is hard for me to regard him as a great defenceman like Pronger or something. He is just very good, maybe among the best in the NHL at times but truly elite? Not that much. He is incredibly unique. And he does things no other defenceman do. As an aside Chara used to take faceoffs when the Sens were shorthanded with 3 skaters. It was usually Phillips-Chara and Alfredsson with Chara taking draws.

Anyway I just have a hard time seeing Chara dominate games. I think it is because he has not done it in the playoffs. There are many defencemen I have watched in my life and the last 25 years or so I would take over Chara at his best.

To me Chara needs a dominant playoffs. A really dominant one that is at least 3 rounds deep to get my vote for the HHOF. And I am a huge fan of him.


Last edited by Sens Rule: 11-14-2010 at 08:24 AM.
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11-14-2010, 08:45 AM
  #25
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Sergei "Sieve" Gonchar the best defenseman in 2003-04? Chara (very close 2nd in Norris voting to Niedermayer) not even top 5 (and behind Brian McCabe...)?

I guess I can see why you wouldn't want Chara in the HHOF if your main criteria for defenseman is their point totals.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 11-14-2010 at 08:51 AM.
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