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From Tim Panaccio:Flyers to re-sign Jeff Carter to 10 year deal

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Old
11-12-2010, 11:07 AM
  #51
Meichel Kane
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I like when players stay with one team.

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11-12-2010, 11:16 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HFKessSnipes View Post
While I'm just recovering from the whipping I took for disagreeing with everyone on Giroux, I will say that Carter is one of the best young forwards and I would be jealous if the Flyers could lock this guy up for 5-10 years with a cap hit under 7. Even above 7, I still would have no problem supporting that deal, I think Jeff is the real deal.
You get +1 from me just for that 1st line.. (if it makes any difference)

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11-12-2010, 11:19 AM
  #53
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And what if he gets injured tomorrow? Then what? Then these brilliant contracts look pretty stupid don't they? The team is taking all the risk in these contracts, not the player.
If Carter gets injured then he goes on LTIR and the Flyers will be able to use his cap space on someone to replace him until he's able to play. If Holmgren can get a cap hit of $5 million or $5.5 million per year then I'm all for this deal. You can guarantee these long-term deals will be a hot topic in negotiations for the next CBA. The league will probably want a limit of 7 years because that's how many years a contract can be insured for. And who knows, maybe Holmgren figures team will be able to get rid of one bad contract that won't affect the cap of the team once the new CBA gets signed and he'll get rid of Briere's contract. No one knows what's going to happen in the next CBA or what's going to be agreed to, all we can do is speculate.

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Old
11-12-2010, 12:10 PM
  #54
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They're playing with fire.
They're playing to win.

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I like when players stay with one team.
That's a sentiment uttered a bazillion times, and yet, when teams do identify young, core players and lock them up for what is basically the duration of their careers, it suddenly becomes "boring" or some form of "cap circumvention" and whatever. Can't win for losing.

Anyway, I have no problem with a 10-year contract for a guy who has averaged 40 goals over the last two seasons, at 25 yrs old, so long as the cap hit is right around Richards', which is $5.75. It's a gamble worth taking if they've identified Carter as a core player.

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11-12-2010, 12:15 PM
  #55
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And here I was just thinking how sick I was to see that nobody stayed with their own team through retirement anymore.

Glad to see the NHL's cap loophole is putting a stop to that.
NO doubt. Everyone would like to see their favourite superstar on their team one day but I'm with you. I like that Lemieux was a career pen. I like that Stevie Y and soon to be Lidstrom are career wings. I think that stuff is too rare these days.

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11-12-2010, 12:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
It's cheating the cap, it will come back to bite teams in the a** in the future too. I think cap hit should change year to year. That's the only way to make deals like this less frequent. It circumvents the cap in a way and I dunno, I just find it pretty ridiculous.

Hypocrite much? Because you're happy when your team can lock up it's stars long term, but it sucks when other teams can do the same?

And how can a contract that takes a guy until he's 35 circumvent the cap? Pretty much at least 8, and probably all 10 of those years will be "prime" years for Carter, so it's not like they added "fluff" years on the back end where he'll retire. Unless you think that Carter's going to walk away from the NHL at 32 YO?

And having the actual cash paid = cap hit for a given year creates many more problems, where teams could "stack" their roster by structuring their deals oddly.

Just as a refresher - the cap's goal is to ensure that the NHLPA makes a set percentage of hockey related revenue. Long term deals are in no way "circumvention" unless they are front loaded and the player is not expected to play all the years under the contract. If Carter's deal is 6 years x 8M, 2 years at 4M, and 2x years 2M, he'd play 10 years and have total payroll of $60M, and a caphit of $6M. How is that circumvention?

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11-12-2010, 12:49 PM
  #57
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While I would rather he only get 5 or so, Its probably just a way of keeping the cap hit down
I don't think there's any way to say anything but that its to keep the cap hit down.


Still...in my eyes Carter isn't anywhere near the level of player to get a 10 year deal...this may help the Flyers in the short-term but could really hurt long-term...seems like Homer's M.O. though, so nothing surprising.

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11-12-2010, 12:55 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
I don't think there's any way to say anything but that its to keep the cap hit down.


Still...in my eyes Carter isn't anywhere near the level of player to get a 10 year deal...this may help the Flyers in the short-term but could really hurt long-term...seems like Homer's M.O. though, so nothing surprising.
Depends how you want to sell it. Locking up a young 6-3, 2-way goalscoring center for years to come could be seen as investing in the future (long-term).

I guess i'm reserving my opinion until I see the deal finalized.

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11-12-2010, 01:15 PM
  #59
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Everything depends on the dollar amount.

If its in the $5.5 per range then its hard not to tip the cap to the Flyers in the meantime. If its above $6 million per then I'd say its too risky. Anything in-between is in toss-up range where it all basically depends on your opinion of Carter.

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11-12-2010, 01:29 PM
  #60
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Look at this years free agent crop already. It is down to Richards, Connolly (injury problems), Gagne, Semin (wants to stay), Kovalev, Ryder, Arnott and Langenbrunner. And you can count on it getting worse. It is starting to get to the point that even the most desirable teams can't find scoring in free agency. If you let a young forward get to free agency, a desperate team is going to offer stupid money. I'd much rather take a risk in which I get a first line player at a fair, or even under market cap hit, rather than risk losing him to free agency (I recognize Carter is a year away).

Maybe not the ideal move for the Flyers, but I have no problem with it either.

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11-12-2010, 01:33 PM
  #61
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Sign and trade.
To the TML

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Old
11-12-2010, 01:34 PM
  #62
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cap circumvention, yeah right!

As soon as one of the guys that signed a 10+ year contract turns into todd bertuzzi, and it will happen, everybody will be laughing at that team. Everybody will say how stupid they were to give out such a long team deal. That team will be at a serious disadvantage. Look at Wade Redden and imagine that happening to one of these teams. It's risk vs. reward. Cap circumvention...yeah right, what a joke!!!

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11-12-2010, 01:38 PM
  #63
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Love this. Love seeing teams that draft players lock up their own talent.

But people need to realize Carter is not signing long term for $5 million. Carter is giving up fewer RFA years then Richards did. Carter has put up better numbers and is just as good as Richards defensively. Carter's contract starts at $5.75 million a year, and just a guess it's somewhere north of $6.25 million a year. And he's worth it. Great goal scorer, great 2-way play and a very good PKer.

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11-12-2010, 01:56 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
As soon as one of the guys that signed a 10+ year contract turns into todd bertuzzi, and it will happen, everybody will be laughing at that team. Everybody will say how stupid they were to give out such a long team deal. That team will be at a serious disadvantage. Look at Wade Redden and imagine that happening to one of these teams. It's risk vs. reward. Cap circumvention...yeah right, what a joke!!!
There's always risk, but Carter is only 25, if the Flyers could get Bertuzzi's production from ages 26-30, I think they'd be estatic. Even if from ages 31-35 he wasn't playing to that level.

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11-12-2010, 02:16 PM
  #65
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I love how every GM is open to these contracts which lock up stars and lower cap hits while Wilson only gives 4 year ones and overpays.

But yea if Carter gets less than 6mil/year its a ******* steal on the Flyers part.

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11-12-2010, 02:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Love this. Love seeing teams that draft players lock up their own talent.

But people need to realize Carter is not signing long term for $5 million. Carter is giving up fewer RFA years then Richards did. Carter has put up better numbers and is just as good as Richards defensively. Carter's contract starts at $5.75 million a year, and just a guess it's somewhere north of $6.25 million a year. And he's worth it. Great goal scorer, great 2-way play and a very good PKer.
Carter isn't at the same level as Richards defensively, he's definitely a few steps below. He means much less to this team than Richards does, and I don't see him getting more than Richards does if the deal is 10 years.

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11-12-2010, 02:42 PM
  #67
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WOOHOO! No more Carter for Vokoun discussions!

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11-12-2010, 02:43 PM
  #68
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Good for Philly. Carter is a big piece of their offense, though, I always thought he was a little overrated.

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11-12-2010, 03:01 PM
  #69
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Carter isn't at the same level as Richards defensively, he's definitely a few steps below. He means much less to this team than Richards does, and I don't see him getting more than Richards does if the deal is 10 years.
My thoughts as well.

If the Flyers are giving Carter the security of 10 years, then they shouldn't be giving him a dime more than Richards. I support Carter more than most, but he is in no way, shape or form on par with Richards, as far as importance to this team. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't watch the Flyers enough. He's "core", but he ain't on par with Richards.

I think they can get it done for $5.5 - $5.75, and if that's the case, then I'm totally fine with the deal.

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11-12-2010, 03:29 PM
  #70
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Carter isn't at the same level as Richards defensively, he's definitely a few steps below. He means much less to this team than Richards does, and I don't see him getting more than Richards does if the deal is 10 years.
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My thoughts as well.

If the Flyers are giving Carter the security of 10 years, then they shouldn't be giving him a dime more than Richards. I support Carter more than most, but he is in no way, shape or form on par with Richards, as far as importance to this team. Anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't watch the Flyers enough. He's "core", but he ain't on par with Richards.

I think they can get it done for $5.5 - $5.75, and if that's the case, then I'm totally fine with the deal.
I see about 20-25 Philadelphia games a year, so less then either of you but Carter isn't far behind Richards in terms of defensive game. Carter is a very very good 2-way player and his PK skills (from what I have seen) are just as good as Richards. This isn't a knock on Richards, but I think you two are selling Carter short.

If Carter signs for what Richards did (or less) I will tip my cap to the Philadelphia organization, because Richards gave up less UFA years, had put up less impressive numbers then Carter has, and and the cap is higher today then it was when Richards signed.

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11-12-2010, 03:49 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
I love how every GM is open to these contracts which lock up stars and lower cap hits while Wilson only gives 4 year ones and overpays.

But yea if Carter gets less than 6mil/year its a ******* steal on the Flyers part.
I also would prefer the GM of my team to hand out realistic term contracts. Gillis giving Kesler @ age 26 and Hamhuis at age 27, 6 year deals is fine, works out well, takes them into their early 30's.
However, I hated the Luongo 12/13 year deal when it was announced. Especially for a guy who is 31 at the start of the contract, for a position that is very difficult to trade from in the first place.

As for Carter, a 10 year deal for him would take him to age 36, so a 10 year deal wouldn't be much of a cap saver for him. 10 year deal for Carter makes sense, although, I'd rather keep it closer to 8 years and let him have 1 more fair length deal when he turns 34.

I'm always one to trade cap hit for term. Better to get the term you want, rather than a lower cap hit. Everyone always says, you have this high priced guy for another 2 or 3 years. That's why you always go for the term you want.

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11-12-2010, 03:51 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
I see about 20-25 Philadelphia games a year, so less then either of you but Carter isn't far behind Richards in terms of defensive game. Carter is a very very good 2-way player and his PK skills (from what I have seen) are just as good as Richards. This isn't a knock on Richards, but I think you two are selling Carter short.
Let me be clear: I'm a huge Carter fan. I absolute hate when some of our fans want to get rid of him because he's "lazy" or "streaky" or we have a "logjam" in the middle. Centers like Carter do not grow on trees. You can spend decades trying to replace players like that.

You are correct in that he isn't greatly behind Richards defensively, and he is very good on the PK as well, but he's not at Richards' level. He's just not. We'd have a harder time filling Richards' shoes if he left this organization than if Carter were to go, in my opinion.

That's about as unbiased a point of view as you're likely gonna get from a Flyers fan, because I'm one of those guys who is constantly defending Jeff Carter. But yea, his value to this team is not only behind Mike Richards, but it's also behind Claude Giroux. That's just the makeup of the roster, and not necessarily about Jeff as a player or his talent level (which is awesome). I think he's a hell of a player and I hope they lock him up longterm.

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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
If Carter signs for what Richards did (or less) I will tip my cap to the Philadelphia organization, because Richards gave up less UFA years, had put up less impressive numbers then Carter has, and and the cap is higher today then it was when Richards signed.
This may just be blind optimism on my part, but I really don't see him getting a dime more than Mike. Stats aside, he simply does not mean as much to the Philly organization. I think if he really wants to be here, he will settle for $5.75 longterm to do so. We'll see.

I'm not arguing with you, we just see things a bit differently. You could very well be correct on all points, and in fact, opinions are neither right not wrong, in reality.

Either way, I've always wanted him signed to an extension, and I hope they make it happen, and I hope the cap hit is reasonable.

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Old
11-12-2010, 03:57 PM
  #73
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It's cheating the cap, it will come back to bite teams in the a** in the future too. I think cap hit should change year to year. That's the only way to make deals like this less frequent. It circumvents the cap in a way and I dunno, I just find it pretty ridiculous.
think about this, new cba coming up where the nhl will try to eliminate cap circumventing contracts, the teams that manage to lock up there young stars with these type of low cap hit deals are not screwing there future, they are infact making it easier for them to sign players in the future. Its either this or pay Carter 7 to 8 million on a shorter term contract and not be able to sign other players

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Old
11-12-2010, 04:17 PM
  #74
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Sounds like it will be done within the week. 10 years @ somewhere between $60-63 million.

Also working on a 3 year deal with Leino, probably somewhere around 3 yrs for $6 million.

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11-12-2010, 05:10 PM
  #75
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Sounds like it will be done within the week. 10 years @ somewhere between $60-63 million.

Also working on a 3 year deal with Leino, probably somewhere around 3 yrs for $6 million.
Yeah, just read that on csnphilly.com really hope this is true and all works out in the offseason

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