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Mike Modano, a Hall of Famer?

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Old
11-16-2010, 08:37 PM
  #1
Passchendaele
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Mike Modano, a Hall of Famer?

What do you think?

He has never been really dominant, a single 50-goal season, no 100-point season, no major individual awards. Never ranked better than 8th in scoring.

BUT

-Twelve 70 pts+ seasons
-Excellent playoff performer
-One cup
-Could play defense (unlike, say, Bure)
-Seven all-star games (Granted, it's pretty much meaningless these days)
-Over 1350 career points

Should he get in? Will he?

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Old
11-16-2010, 08:40 PM
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SidGenoMario
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I wish he wouldn't but because of his American status he's a lock.

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Old
11-16-2010, 08:43 PM
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BraveCanadian
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I wish he wouldn't but because of his American status he's a lock.
This pretty much.. very good player a very long time but..

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Old
11-16-2010, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
Should he get in? Will he?
Of course and of course.

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Old
11-16-2010, 08:57 PM
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Should he get in? Will he?
No, and most likely.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:02 PM
  #6
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one of the best captains ever in the modern era, next to sakic and yzerman
over 1300 points
classy individual overall
and banging this daily http://wallpaper.celebritypc.com/wil...ord_8-1024.jpg

id say he is a lock

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11-16-2010, 09:07 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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I think he would have a good chance at getting in even if he wasn't American because he was the face of a franchise for so long and best skater on a team that went to back to back Finals and won one.

The fact that he's American makes him a lock though.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Coffey Maker View Post
one of the best captains ever in the modern era, next to sakic and yzerman
over 1300 points
classy individual overall
and banging this daily http://wallpaper.celebritypc.com/wil...ord_8-1024.jpg

id say he is a lock
Modano had his captaincy stripped of him about 2 years into his captaincy. Hatcher was their captain through the 90s/early00s. Then a couple years of Modano and then they took it away and gave it to Morrow.

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11-16-2010, 09:26 PM
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Modano had his captaincy stripped of him about 2 years into his captaincy. Hatcher was their captain through the 90s/early00s. Then a couple years of Modano and then they took it away and gave it to Morrow.
i believe he was stripped of his captaincy because he was a nervous wreck(rightously so)when his buisness manager blew all of modanos money on bad investments.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:26 PM
  #10
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*captain in spirit

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:28 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I'd take him above Dino Ciccarelli without a second thought. Significantly better overall player than Mats Sundin, who many consider a lock. Better peak than Ron Francis IMO - Modano was considered one of the true superstars in the league in a way that Francis just wasn't.

People forget how much he was willing to sacrifice offense to win hockey games when he was in Dallas - possibly the most defensive-minded team of the era.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:32 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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i don't see how any hall of fame that includes gartner and ciccarelli (and, in the future, sundin) can exclude modano.

for a few years, he was a top 10 player in the game. he was the best non-goalie on a team that went to back to back finals and won a cup. he was big, strong, very good offensively, great defensively, and for a good stretch was the prototypical center every team in the league wanted to build around.

now, offense alone won't and shouldn't get him into the hall. but even taking away the fact that he was a signature american player during hockey usa's "golden age," his playoff record and all-round game should get him in.

i also like his career arc: he breaks into the league as the best prospect since lemieux, then spends his first half-decade as an extremely promising but ultimately disappointing perimeter scorer who just doesn't have the vision to match his wheels and hands, and looks like he'll never become a top 5 scorer like he was supposed to be. and then when scoring goes down league-wide and he is asked to take on a huge defensive load, his stats remain the same and he becomes a PPG player in the dead puck era-- no small feat-- and ultimately gets underrated by the numbers crunchers.

when talking about his generation, he is behind sakic, forsberg, fedorov, and lindros, but each of those guys won an MVP. fifth best behind those guys is pretty good, and i think most would agree that modano is decisively ahead of sundin, roenick, weight, turgeon, and anyone other center whose career began between lemieux and thornton.

i have a pretty high HHOF standard, but modano would be on my bottom rung.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:37 PM
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I begrudgingly admit that Modano should get in the hall.

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11-16-2010, 09:46 PM
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He'll be in...

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I'd take him above Dino Ciccarelli without a second thought. Significantly better overall player than Mats Sundin, who many consider a lock. Better peak than Ron Francis IMO - Modano was considered one of the true superstars in the league in a way that Francis just wasn't.

People forget how much he was willing to sacrifice offense to win hockey games when he was in Dallas - possibly the most defensive-minded team of the era.
Francis had a slightly better peak, but with better players.

Modano definitely was more of a complete offensive player for sure and will get into the Hall as he should.

He won't be the best player in the Hall but he will be far from the worst too.

Of the 245 Male players in the Hall he will fall somewhere around the 150-175 standing off the top of my head when he gets in.

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Old
11-16-2010, 09:53 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Coffey Maker View Post
one of the best captains ever in the modern era, next to sakic and yzerman
over 1300 points
classy individual overall
and banging this daily http://wallpaper.celebritypc.com/wil...ord_8-1024.jpg

id say he is a lock
He is not one of the best Captains really or he would not have lost the Captaincy. You don't say to Yzerman or Sakic.... hey it is time for you to stop being Captain now.

He is a lock to make the HHOF and he should get in but come on he is not some kind of greatest Captain ever or he would not have had his Captaincy striped from him.

I am a Sens fan and I can say Alfredsson will be Captain of the Sens until he retires with absolute certainty.

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Old
11-16-2010, 10:06 PM
  #17
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modano is sort of a borderline HHOFer, imo, but i think he was more deserving of the '99 smythe than nieuwendyk and finished lower in selke voting relative to other C's in the late '90s and early 2000s b/c of splitting votes with jere lehtinen.

i don't think sakic, forsberg or yzerman were better defensively than modano, but they all finished 1st or 2nd.

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Old
11-16-2010, 11:12 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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I can't believe there are still people out there that don't think he should get in. What argument is there for keeping him out? I could list a lot of players in the HOF that you'd have to remove if you want to keep Modano out.

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Old
11-16-2010, 11:49 PM
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Mike Modano should and will get in the Hall. His longevity and career numbers fit Hall of Fame standards. And from about 1996-97 to 2002-03, he was just a dominant two-way player, among the league's best.

During that time, he:

1. Was the best player on a perennial Stanley Cup contender, two-time finalist, and one-time winner.

2. At even strength, mostly matched up against the opposing team's best players*, and won. Dallas's GF/GA ratio was 1.65 with him on the ice and 1.08 with him off the ice. He had quality linemates in Lehtinen, Hull, and others, but Modano was clearly the man on that line.

3. Was among the top 4 penalty killing forwards every year, and twice led forwards in SHTOI, for a Dallas team that had the second best penalty kill in the league over this time.

4. Was the leading forward** in power play points on the fourth best power play in the league over this time.

5. Highest scoring American, which may make the difference in why he will get in. IMO he should be in regardless for his play on the ice.

*I don't remember the matchups from before 1999 - Guy Carbonneau may have been taking some tough matchups then also. But at least from 1999 on, Hitchcock was going full power-vs-power with Modano and Lehtinen. And that's been Hitchcock's M.O. in his other coaching stops since, so I imagine it was the case since Hitchcock arrived in Dallas.

**Sergei Zubov had more power play points and may deserve more credit for the power play's success, just as you might give Derian Hatcher more credit for the success of the penalty kill. But Modano was a key member of both units.

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Old
11-17-2010, 12:32 AM
  #20
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From 1989-present:

Top NHL scorers in that time:
1. Jagr 1599
2. Sakic 1579
3. Recchi 1494
4. Modano 1365
5. Sundin 1349
6. Selanne 1279
7. Shanahan 1278

He's a lock, no matter what his country of origin is!

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Old
11-17-2010, 01:39 AM
  #21
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Surprised people don't think he should get in the hall.

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Old
11-17-2010, 02:26 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Mike Modano should and will get in the Hall. His longevity and career numbers fit Hall of Fame standards. And from about 1996-97 to 2002-03, he was just a dominant two-way player, among the league's best.

During that time, he:

1. Was the best player on a perennial Stanley Cup contender, two-time finalist, and one-time winner.

2. At even strength, mostly matched up against the opposing team's best players*, and won. Dallas's GF/GA ratio was 1.65 with him on the ice and 1.08 with him off the ice. He had quality linemates in Lehtinen, Hull, and others, but Modano was clearly the man on that line.

3. Was among the top 4 penalty killing forwards every year, and twice led forwards in SHTOI, for a Dallas team that had the second best penalty kill in the league over this time.

4. Was the leading forward** in power play points on the fourth best power play in the league over this time.

5. Highest scoring American, which may make the difference in why he will get in. IMO he should be in regardless for his play on the ice.
This.

As others have noted, I can't believe there are people who still don't think he should be in the HHOF.

His pure offensive numbers during his 1996-2003 peak don't 'look' that dominant, but the fact of the matter is that he was a flat out dominant player during that period.

A guy finishing 10th in scoring while being a top-5 defensive forward in the league (which is what Modano was doing most of those years) is a flat-out dominant player.

Unfortunately, people who look at pure statistics as a measure of 'dominance' will rate a guy who had 10 more points than Modano did but were mediocre defensive players as better players than Modano.

Modano wasn't truly elite offensively or defensively, but became elite by being only a half-step away on both counts.

He was also hurt by having his most productive years right in the heart of the dead-puck era, so that guys from the 1980s who had a few 100-point seasons 'look' better offensively despite being much worse when you look at adjusted stats.

__________

In any case, the guy is a dead first-ballot lock.

- career value? Played for 22 years, 1300+ career points, important player for more than 2 decades.

- peak value? Absolutely, had a stretch of several seasons where he was a top-10 player in the sport. Probably the best two-way center in the league for about 5 years during his prime.

- team success? Leading scorer on a Cup winner, three 20-point playoffs, 3x Cup Finalist. Also one of the most important guys on the 1996 US World Cup team.

- anything else? Well, yeah. Hugely important figure to his country in international play, highest-scoring US-born player in NHL history. Most important player in the history of the Dallas Stars/Minnesota North Stars franchise. Was an exciting player to watch who played the game the way it was meant to be played.

Was also a class act both on and off the ice who probably deserved a Lady Byng or two if it was awarded properly instead of to the guy with the best points to PIM ratio. Does anyone actually think that the people who created that award would have wanted a one-way floater/soft player with 10 PIM like Pavol Demitra to win over a two-way force like Modano who put up 40 PIM playing a super-involved game?

The only people who don't think Modano should be in the HHOF are people who a) haven't escaped from 1985 and don't think putting up 80 points in the post-1995 world is elite offensive play, and b) only look at offense when looking at HHOF credentials.

Modano had (easily) a better career and was a better player than Gilbert Perreault or Darryl Sittler. Pretty damned obvious he's a HHOF lock.

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Old
11-17-2010, 06:22 AM
  #23
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His career numbers are great considering he played in the dead puck era, on Reunion arena slush for a coach whose wet dream was to win a game zero to negative one.

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:06 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i don't see how any hall of fame that includes gartner and ciccarelli (and, in the future, sundin) can exclude modano.

for a few years, he was a top 10 player in the game. he was the best non-goalie on a team that went to back to back finals and won a cup. he was big, strong, very good offensively, great defensively, and for a good stretch was the prototypical center every team in the league wanted to build around.

now, offense alone won't and shouldn't get him into the hall. but even taking away the fact that he was a signature american player during hockey usa's "golden age," his playoff record and all-round game should get him in.

i also like his career arc: he breaks into the league as the best prospect since lemieux, then spends his first half-decade as an extremely promising but ultimately disappointing perimeter scorer who just doesn't have the vision to match his wheels and hands, and looks like he'll never become a top 5 scorer like he was supposed to be. and then when scoring goes down league-wide and he is asked to take on a huge defensive load, his stats remain the same and he becomes a PPG player in the dead puck era-- no small feat-- and ultimately gets underrated by the numbers crunchers.

when talking about his generation, he is behind sakic, forsberg, fedorov, and lindros, but each of those guys won an MVP. fifth best behind those guys is pretty good, and i think most would agree that modano is decisively ahead of sundin, roenick, weight, turgeon, and anyone other center whose career began between lemieux and thornton.

i have a pretty high HHOF standard, but modano would be on my bottom rung.
Is Modano really behind Forsberg?

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:34 AM
  #25
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He was better than Glen Anderson, Dino, Larionov, Robitaille and Duff, all recent entrants. He should get in.

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