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Old
11-17-2010, 01:38 AM
  #1
I Hate Chris Butler
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Reply to this statement about Bobby Clarke.

So, I bought my first issue of The Hockey News. It was the one with Modano on the cover. In the Crowd Shots section at the beginning of the magazine, there was an email sent in about Bobby Clarke. It was titled Make It or Break It.

Quote:
I enjoyed your special issue, The 100 Players of All-Time by Position, but I find it troubling that Bobby Clarke continues to make these lists.

This is a guy most famous for breaking Valeri Kharlamov's anke in the 1972 Summit Series.

Kharlamov, of course, was one of the many Russian players who possessed skill that Clarke could only dream of having.

Thankfully, the game is in good hands now with a lot of stars coming up, this should take Clarke off any "greatest player" lists within a decade.


This actually made me angry and I'm not even a Flyers fan/Soviet sympathizer. The email is just full of ignorance and stupidity. So, help me form a rebuttal to this tripe so I can send it in and hope the joker who wrote that reads it.

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Old
11-17-2010, 03:32 AM
  #2
Eisen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C For Choke View Post
So, I bought my first issue of The Hockey News. It was the one with Modano on the cover. In the Crowd Shots section at the beginning of the magazine, there was an email sent in about Bobby Clarke. It was titled Make It or Break It.





This actually made me angry and I'm not even a Flyers fan/Soviet sympathizer. The email is just full of ignorance and stupidity. So, help me form a rebuttal to this tripe so I can send it in and hope the joker who wrote that reads it.
No idea why that makes you angry. Clarke was a sad excuse for a gentleman athlete and it's quite understandable that people hate him. Of course that hurts his legacy and brings out trolls. Do you really think you will change the opinion of someone who wrote something like that?
(and before I get called a troll as well, yes, I don't like Clarke, but that guy could play). Quick search should get you a lot of Clarke threads in this forum if you stil want to answer this guy.

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11-17-2010, 03:34 AM
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=826243

A fairly recent discussion was done on Bobby Clarke which will probably be most of what you are looking for.

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11-17-2010, 03:40 AM
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I don't see how that makes him not one of the greatest players. Richard was dirty, Pronger's dirty, Stevens. There's gentlemanly players and great players, some are both, some are neither, some are only one.

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11-17-2010, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
No idea why that makes you angry. Clarke was a sad excuse for a gentleman athlete and it's quite understandable that people hate him. Of course that hurts his legacy and brings out trolls. Do you really think you will change the opinion of someone who wrote something like that?
(and before I get called a troll as well, yes, I don't like Clarke, but that guy could play). Quick search should get you a lot of Clarke threads in this forum if you stil want to answer this guy.
Because the guy completely disregards Clarke as being possibly the best forward in the world at the time because he slashed Kharlamov and the deluded fantasy that Kharlamov was somehow some otherworldly super talent which Clarke couldn't hold up to simply because the Red Army mopped the floor the majority of the time with international teams who weren't nearly as good as the USSR.

Holy hell that is a long sentence.

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11-17-2010, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C For Choke View Post
Because the guy completely disregards Clarke as being possibly the best forward in the world at the time because he slashed Kharlamov and the deluded fantasy that Kharlamov was somehow some otherworldly super talent which Clarke couldn't hold up to simply because the Red Army mopped the floor the majority of the time with international teams who weren't nearly as good as the USSR.

Holy hell that is a long sentence.
True, but that's the fate of polarizing figures. You need to look deep into it to see how great he was, but it only takes a few youtube clips and you hate the guy.

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11-17-2010, 07:25 AM
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My biggest issue with Clarke, on a game by game basis when he played, is that he didn't have the guts to finish what he started. The slash was dirty and very unfortunate, but at the end of the day it's just one incident.

That said, he's one of the two most well rounded centers I have ever seen play the game. Even if one doesn't rate him quite that high, anybody who doesn't acknowledge his obvious talent, quite simply never saw him play or don't know much about hockey.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 11-17-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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11-17-2010, 07:55 AM
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Clarkie was a great competitor. A guy you would kill to have on your team. There isn't anything he wouldn't do to win

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11-17-2010, 08:11 AM
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11-17-2010, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
My biggest issue with Clarke, on a game by game basis when he played, is that he didn't have the guts to finish what he started. The slash was dirty and very unfortunate, but at the end of the day it's just one incident.

That said, he's one of the two most well rounded centers I have ever seen play the game. If if one doesn't rate him quite that high, anybody who doesn't acknowledge his obvious talent, quite simply never saw him play or don't know much about hockey.
He was basically the league's best defensive center, best playmaking center, and most gutless cheapshot puke all at the same time.

Great player, but as I've said before I find it baffling how people lambaste Claude Lemieux for how he played but lionize Bobby Clarke for doing the exact same thing.

To me, Clarke's achievements (like those of Lemieux and Ulf Samuelsson) lose much of their lustre because of how he played. He wasn't a tough but stand-up player like Howe or Trottier. He was a flat-out rat who was possibly the dirtiest player with his stick of the modern era.

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11-17-2010, 08:18 AM
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Despite the fact that Bobby Clarke was a great player that blatant slash will always taint my regard of him, and Canada's win in the Summit Series.

I know times were different before the wall fell and all that.. but there is no excuse for that behaviour in a sport.

I can only imagine what the perception of those events would have been if it had been a Soviet player breaking Phil Esposito's ankle the same way and the Soviets had gone on to win.

I'm betting that people here would have a very different opinion than "he was a guy who did anything to win".

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11-17-2010, 08:40 AM
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I grew up a Flyers fan during Bobby Clarkes years.As far as talent you would have a hard time finding a Center who had the all around game he had and was also the ultimate team player.I'm sure if you asked any Coach or Gm from that era they would have loved to have him on there team.

As far as a person or Gm I don't have much time for him.I think he really mishandled Eric Lindros.Just my opinion.

In his defense that was how they played in the Nhl then.Not that I agree.The rest of the World played a much cleaner game at the time.

As much as people say they hated him and the rest of the Broad Street Bullies it's funny that there games almost always sold out wherever they played.

I probably wouldn't even waste your time emailing back.That person is probably just as passionate about his beliefs as you are and it won't accomplish anything.

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11-17-2010, 09:33 AM
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Yup, that's just the price you pay for being a jackass. People aren't going to want to give you credit, even when it's due.

If you want a counter-example, Steve Yzerman is probably slightly over-rated by many as a player (and I say that even though he's my all time favorite player) simply because he is almost universally liked and respected.

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11-17-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mobilus View Post


Well, that certainly proves he's no top 25 (or whatever) player!

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11-17-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Great player, but as I've said before I find it baffling how people lambaste Claude Lemieux for how he played but lionize Bobby Clarke for doing the exact same thing.
Huh?

I think Clarke gets, er, lambasted a fairly lot for how he played too; often to the point where it totally overshadows his skills and accomplishments - partly justifiably, of course, since some of things he did were just awful, we all know that.

Maybe his reputation is slightly better than that of the players you mentioned, but then again, he was also a clearly better player than both C. Lemieux and Samuelsson and should be way higher than them on all-time list(s).

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11-17-2010, 01:21 PM
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Clarke is the definition of a gutless coward. Way worse than both Lemieux and Samuelsson. Never bought into this demented reasoning "He did whatever it took to win". So we should now celebrate people who do whatever to win like doping, delibritly injures other players etc etc. If Clarke were anything but canadian he wouldnt be on the top-25 on most lists.

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11-17-2010, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Clarke is the definition of a gutless coward. Way worse than both Lemieux and Samuelsson. Never bought into this demented reasoning "He did whatever it took to win". So we should now celebrate people who do whatever to win like doping, delibritly injures other players etc etc. If Clarke were anything but canadian he wouldnt be on the top-25 on most lists.
Clarke's reputation is based on his dominant defence along with his world class playmaking, at least among people worth listening to. I've seen just as many people try to discredit Clarke, for deliberately injuring Kharlamov, as I have praise him for his intangible "whatever it takes" attitude. Very little of his reputation has to do with nationality.

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11-17-2010, 02:31 PM
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Here's my reply, if I felt it necessary to do so:

Bobby Clarke is the dirtiest NHLer I've ever saw.

And, it's part of what made him great.

Yes, you read that correctly.

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11-17-2010, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Here's my reply, if I felt it necessary to do so:

Bobby Clarke is the dirtiest NHLer I've ever saw.

And, it's part of what made him great.

Yes, you read that correctly.
I'd say it`s part of made him effective, but great for me is something else. (again, I`m not criticizing his HOCKEY skills)

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11-17-2010, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Cognition View Post
I don't see how that makes him not one of the greatest players. Richard was dirty, Pronger's dirty, Stevens. There's gentlemanly players and great players, some are both, some are neither, some are only one.
The book is still out on whether Richards is truly a dirty player.
Pronger is most def dirty, no doubt there.
Stevens though....I think it's ridiculous to say he was a dirty player. Why, because out of the 1000's of hits he dished out over his career, there's a half a dozen or so where he caught players with their heads down?
He didn't low bridge guys, he didn't use his elbows, he didn't hit people in the numbers, he didn't use his stick, he didn't try and kick people or gouge their eyes out.
Stevens was Stevens and just because a mere handful of his 1000's upon 1000's hits might get some extra league attention today, doesn't make him dirty.
In fact, show me just one of his more brutal hits where he didn't still hit the guy full on from the front.
Head down, sure but you will not find any where he came in from the side or any of that garbage.


As far as Clarke goes, it's def a case of his shenanigans and cheap shots taking away from just how good he really was.

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11-17-2010, 03:04 PM
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Stevens tried to maim people and the sappy NHL brass let him get away with it for years. If you look at the replays he takes runs at guys as opposed to catching a guy with his head down. As for Clarke, I think these are two separate issues. Yes, he was dirty, unsportsmanlike, a coward, but he was a great player and that shouldn't exclude him from any list based on skill.

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11-17-2010, 03:13 PM
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clarke's a gutterball

and his 75 hart is a

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Old
11-17-2010, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Stevens tried to maim people and the sappy NHL brass let him get away with it for years. If you look at the replays he takes runs at guys as opposed to catching a guy with his head down. As for Clarke, I think these are two separate issues. Yes, he was dirty, unsportsmanlike, a coward, but he was a great player and that shouldn't exclude him from any list based on skill.


Stevens found a way to hurt guys legally, and the diaper segment of NHL fans can't handle it. The guy played hard but he never dished out cheapshots.

To the OP, hopefully this was your last issue of THN. That magazine is pure garbage.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Stevens tried to maim people and the sappy NHL brass let him get away with it for years. If you look at the replays he takes runs at guys as opposed to catching a guy with his head down. As for Clarke, I think these are two separate issues. Yes, he was dirty, unsportsmanlike, a coward, but he was a great player and that shouldn't exclude him from any list based on skill.
For the most part, he stayed within the limits of the rules.

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Old
11-17-2010, 04:17 PM
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[QUOTE=Briere Up There;29006387]

Stevens found a way to hurt guys legally, and the diaper segment of NHL fans can't handle it. The guy played hard but he never dished out cheapshots.

Its an illegal hit now. It was illegal then, but not enforced by refs like Fraser. You might think different if Stevens hit your kid and he was confined to a wheelchair.

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