Imagine if we could get rid of rozi's contract this summer...
FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Brad Richards ($7.500m) / Alexander Frolov ($2.850m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.250m) / Artem Anisimov ($2.250m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.000m)
Petr Prucha ($1.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Sean Avery ($1.937m)
Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Mike Sauer ($0.500m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.500m) / Pavel Valentenko ($0.825m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)
Imagine if we could get rid of rozi's contract this summer...
FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / Brad Richards ($7.500m) / Alexander Frolov ($2.850m)
Brandon Dubinsky ($4.250m) / Artem Anisimov ($2.250m) / Ryan Callahan ($3.000m) Petr Prucha ($1.000m) / Derek Stepan ($0.875m) / Sean Avery ($1.937m)
Brian Boyle ($1.000m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m) / Brandon Prust ($0.800m)
Derek Boogaard ($1.625m)
DEFENSEMEN
Mike Sauer ($0.500m) / Marc Staal ($3.975m)
Daniel Girardi ($3.325m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.500m) / Pavel Valentenko ($0.825m)
GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) /Martin Biron ($0.875m)
Yeah, look what's going on... Because that's all a result of the Kovalchuk signing. Give me a break.
The last thing this team needs is another 20 goal scorer.
We've never had big names. Scott Gomez and Chris Drury are not big names. Big names are worthy of lavish contracts. There is nothing wrong with signing great players from the free agent market. The problem is when you overpay players who aren't great.
This team is SORELY in need of a legitimate puck distributing playmaker at the center ice position, and this just happens to be one of the rare instances when one of the best playmakers in the league is in his prime and available as a free agent. This is an opportunity that this team can ill afford to pass them by. Brad Richards gives us a GREAT first line, and gives us one of the better second lines in the league, as well. Brad Richards turns this team into a Stanley Cup contender next season, the season after that, and the season after that. I can't foresee any way the same can be said if we don't make any major additions in the very near future (and there is no one else even close to as good as Richards that will be a free agent in the near future).
First of all no need for the douchey sarcasm, New Jersey is falling apart and dressed literally 3 lines because of their bad contract, correct?
Brad Richards will be 31 when he hits the FA market. We don't need another older player locked into a 5+ year deal. And he is making 7.8 million in Dallas, imagine the asking price! It makes more sense to let Stepan/Dubinsky/Anisomov/ Prospal (if he gets back) to all get there shots with Gaborik. Who says none of those guys can;t step into that role, all are very talented, not Richards but still talented. Don't get me wrong I think Richards 60 plus assist last year is a super impressive feat and I do think he is a great player just not for the type of money or hole that we would place the franchise in!
Also Gomez and Drury were both big names who were expected to be great. They also were payed like big names. Gomez came in as an assist aficionado who was a "shoe in" to be Jagr's go to distributor. Chemistry never developed. Drury was Captain Clutch and although he has contributed to the team on the PK, his statistics continue to decline.
Big contracts for FA are a coin flip and I personally believe that Brad Richards/ or 95% of the league does not deserve that kind of money.
when sharp signed that contract he had produced equal or less than callahan had in his career up until that season. he was also playing with toews and kane. sharp's contract was based on projections for rest of that season in which he did score 36 points. if u used projections right now cally is on pace for about 70 points.
I addressed that, or so I thought. He signed the extension in January. At the time of the extension, he already had 22 goals, on January 17th. That's Callahan's career high.
And by the way, I wrote GOALS. Sharp ended up with 62 points that season. And IIRC, Kane and Toews weren't playing together in their rookie seasons all that often.
my projections....
Dubi- 4 years 16 million (4 per)
Cally- 5 years 17.5 million (3.5 per)
Anisimov- 2 years 4 million (2 per)
Boyle- 2 years 3.8 million (1.9 per)
Sauer- 2 years 2 million (1 per)
That's about 12.5 in total for our rfa's it could very well be more than that though, regardless we definitely have the cap space to get them all under contract
my projections....
Dubi- 4 years 16 million (4 per)
Cally- 5 years 17.5 million (3.5 per)
Anisimov- 2 years 4 million (2 per)
Boyle- 2 years 3.8 million (1.9 per)
Sauer- 2 years 2 million (1 per)
That's about 12.5 in total for our rfa's it could very well be more than that though, regardless we definitely have the cap space to get them all under contract
If we could get those contracts, as you have structured I would be ecstatic.
I get this nasty feeling that we will lowball Dubi, he'll get 2 years in arbitration and then be gone.
Callahan will get a 4 or 5 year deal with a 3.75 million cap hit, I'm thinking.
Anisimov will get a 2 year deal with a 2-2.5 million dollar cap hit.
Sauer will get a 2-3 year deal with a 1-1.5 cap hit.
I still think Dubinsky might be elsewhere next season, but if he isn't, then he'll be re-signed to a 3-4 year deal with a 4 million cap hit.
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Originally Posted by PawelW007
First of all no need for the douchey sarcasm, New Jersey is falling apart and dressed literally 3 lines because of their bad contract, correct?
Ilya Kovalchuk was not signed for this season. Ilya Kovalchuk was signed to a 15 year contract. This season is a throwaway for the Devils, and quite frankly, if they didn't have the Rolston contract, they'd have absolutely no problem dressing a team. The Devils are a couple of seasons away from having to rebuild their team, and they'll be doing so around a foundation of Kovalchuk, Parise, Zajac, Tedenby, Volchenkov, and a few other decent young players. To pass judgement on the Ilya Kovalchuk signing after less than 2 months in a season where they weren't going to be particularly strong to begin with and they have a new ROOKIE coach is ridiculous.
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Brad Richards will be 31 when he hits the FA market. We don't need another older player locked into a 5+ year deal. And he is making 7.8 million in Dallas, imagine the asking price!
Richards signed that contract in 2006 when he was not even in his prime yet. Someone is going to have to offer him 7.8 million. I don't see many strong teams that will be able to do so, and he's going to want to go to a good team. Will he come cheap? No, but there is nothing written in stone that says he will cost 8 million. With Rozsival and Drury's contracts coming off the books soon, signing a legit #1 center to a 6 or 7 million dollar cap hit is not nearly as absurd an idea as some people around here would lead you to believe.
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It makes more sense to let Stepan/Dubinsky/Anisomov/ Prospal (if he gets back) to all get there shots with Gaborik. Who says none of those guys can;t step into that role, all are very talented, not Richards but still talented. Don't get me wrong I think Richards 60 plus assist last year is a super impressive feat and I do think he is a great player just not for the type of money or hole that we would place the franchise in!
This team's top two players are both smack dab in the middle of their primes, and we are at the crucial point of development. MOST of our top young prospects, at this point, are already here. That means we aren't "rebuilding" or whatever it is you want to call what this team has been doing anymore. It's time to look toward the next level. Moving forward with the belief that Stepan or Anisimov are ready to take on the most important position on a hockey team in today's NHL is not a smart path to go down. You must have a superb playmaker that can control play in the other team's zone to win in this league. What if Stepan or Anisimov are not the answer? Then what do you do?
Prospal is most definitely not the answer, and I don't see how people are still bringing up Dubinsky and center in the same sentence. He's SO much better suited for the wing.
Signing Richards does not place the team in a hole. It turns the team into a bonafide Stanley Cup contender for at least the next 4 years.
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Also Gomez and Drury were both big names who were expected to be great.
By who? The worst of the worst NHL front office executives and casual fans that are as out of touch with the game as Glen Sather is?
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They also were payed like big names. Gomez came in as an assist aficionado who was a "shoe in" to be Jagr's go to distributor. Chemistry never developed.
A shoe-in according to who? Glen Sather? Aside from Brian Gionta, name a player that Scott Gomez has developed chemistry with.
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Drury was Captain Clutch and although he has contributed to the team on the PK, his statistics continue to decline.
Drury was Captain Clutch...what does his nickname mean and what bearing does that have on this conversation? Drury's statistical "decline" was predictable to any knowledgeable observer. It's exactly why he isn't or ever was a big name.
This is the problem. You are comparing an AVERAGE at best second line center and a third line center/PP specialist with one of the smarter playmakers in the league and a legitimate top line center (and a former Conn Smythe Trophy winner). The situations are completely different. For what it's worth, I was 100% against signing Gomez, Drury, Redden, Voros, Kotalik, and almost every free agent this team has signed since the lockout, not to mention so many before. That's because NONE of the free agents this team has signed in YEARS, other than Gaborik, is a legitimate superstar player. Richards is.
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Big contracts for FA are a coin flip and I personally believe that Brad Richards/ or 95% of the league deserves that kind of money.
Again, what does this mean? Brad Richards is one of the best players in the league at his position and he fills the most important role in the league, a role that is glaringly empty on the New York Rangers.
my projections....
Dubi- 4 years 16 million (4 per)
Cally- 5 years 17.5 million (3.5 per)
Anisimov- 2 years 4 million (2 per)
Boyle- 2 years 3.8 million (1.9 per)
Sauer- 2 years 2 million (1 per)
That's about 12.5 in total for our rfa's it could very well be more than that though, regardless we definitely have the cap space to get them all under contract
All very reasonable contracts. I think Dubi may be able to get around 4.25 a year though.
this is a bit easier now that Boyle and Sauer aren't huge question marks.
I question signing Semin and Richards. I know it would help us out immediately, and prospects don't always pan out, but if we're set on the youth movement, it causes some log jams. Next year might be another throwaway year, 2012 is the bigger question.
Dubinsky-Stepan-Gaborik - it is a proven fact that great players make others around them better... i want to see stepan to develop alongside gaborik and dubinsky has showed he can produce points and rewarding him with top line minutes and first line powerplay time will only make his offensive production more consistent
______-Anisimov-Callahan - Anisimov has showed us what he can do with top 6 minutes ... and continues to improve every season ... i don't think anyone would be surprised if he puts up 60+ points on the second line next season.... we need a left winger to slot in on this line (kreider would be perfect but he might not be nhl ready next year)
Avery-Boyle-Prust - this is just a solid third line that could chip in offensively once in a while, but could also change the momentum in a game... all good forecheckers who play with their hearts on their sleeves
Boogaard-Drury-Wiese - this is our 4th line and it doesn't really matter who plays on this line... torts only gives them 6 mins per game
staal-sauer - sauer has proved he could play in the nhl... playing with staal will just improve his learning curve... sauer will be a legitimat top 4 defensemen
MDZ-Girardi - Girardi is a heart and soul guy who i learn to like more and more everytime he plays... MDZ is our powerplay specialist and IMO has improved his defensive side of the game from last season... these guys could both play on the powerplay as they show much poise and confidence with the puck
McDonough/Eminger/Valetenko/Gilroy - hopefully two of the four can play on the third pairing next year and be a solid pairing... McDonough should definitley be ready and so should valetenko... the way eminger is playing as of recent it would be hard to get rid of him
my projections....
Dubi- 4 years 16 million (4 per)
Cally- 5 years 17.5 million (3.5 per)
Anisimov- 2 years 4 million (2 per)
Boyle- 2 years 3.8 million (1.9 per)
Sauer- 2 years 2 million (1 per)
That's about 12.5 in total for our rfa's it could very well be more than that though, regardless we definitely have the cap space to get them all under contract
I like. I'd take that in a heartbeat. And those do seem pretty reasonable. I think Anismov will get $3-$3.5 mill for three years, though.
Ok, if you want to be condescending instead of understanding both sides of the argument then I can do so as well!
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
Ilya Kovalchuk was not signed for this season. Ilya Kovalchuk was signed to a 15 year contract. This season is a throwaway for the Devils, and quite frankly, if they didn't have the Rolston contract, they'd have absolutely no problem dressing a team. The Devils are a couple of seasons away from having to rebuild their team, and they'll be doing so around a foundation of Kovalchuk, Parise, Zajac, Tedenby, Volchenkov, and a few other decent young players. To pass judgement on the Ilya Kovalchuk signing after less than 2 months in a season where they weren't going to be particularly strong to begin with and they have a new ROOKIE coach is ridiculous.
The Devils haven't missed the playoffs in 15 years. Coming into the season they has a goalie that was rated a top 5 goaltender, one of the most talented 1st lines on paper, and a strong bottom core of grit players, youre being silly! "Yea you know what screw this year we're playing for in 3-5 years" The devils didn't plan on this by any stretch of the imagination, proof will be when they fire John MacLean by Feb-March. They've struggled mostly because of injuries plus hampering contracts, not because they didn't attempt to put on a solid product on the ice.
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
Richards signed that contract in 2006 when he was not even in his prime yet. Someone is going to have to offer him 7.8 million. I don't see many strong teams that will be able to do so, and he's going to want to go to a good team. Will he come cheap? No, but there is nothing written in stone that says he will cost 8 million. With Rozsival and Drury's contracts coming off the books soon, signing a legit #1 center to a 6 or 7 million dollar cap hit is not nearly as absurd an idea as some people around here would lead you to believe.
Lets use logic here....If a player is signed to 7.8 million dollars and lives up to his contract will he ask for less or more when hitting the Free Agent Market?
answer that question, please do it
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
This team's top two players are both smack dab in the middle of their primes, and we are at the crucial point of development. MOST of our top young prospects, at this point, are already here. That means we aren't "rebuilding" or whatever it is you want to call what this team has been doing anymore. It's time to look toward the next level. Moving forward with the belief that Stepan or Anisimov are ready to take on the most important position on a hockey team in today's NHL is not a smart path to go down. You must have a superb playmaker that can control play in the other team's zone to win in this league. What if Stepan or Anisimov are not the answer? Then what do you do?
Who is to say that Richards is a lock? You're willing to pay 8 million dollars a year to find out? I'm just not sold is all, not saying I wouldn't welcome Richards with open arms but I think if theres one thing we've learned from the last 15 years of this organization is that highly paid acquisitions don't play well in New York. And yet, we overpay and miss time after time. And then you get mad at fans like me for being gun-shy.
Just looking back at some of the disgusting rosters the Rangers played with is an embarrassment in the late 90's to the pre-lockout. I'm sorry if I don't want to watch my team get stripped and ***** because we have Four players making 30 million and 18 others making 800 k. If the Rangers go after Richards, they will have these players (regardless of 1 year left or etc.) making 5 mil plus Henrik Lundqvist, Michael Roszival, Marian Gaborik, Chris Drury, Wade Redden (still on the cap) and Brad Richards. With the responsibilities of resigning basically the core of our youth.
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
Prospal is most definitely not the answer, and I don't see how people are still bringing up Dubinsky and center in the same sentence. He's SO much better suited for the wing.
Signing Richards does not place the team in a hole. It turns the team into a bonafide Stanley Cup contender for at least the next 4 years.
You're right, in all probability, Prospal is not the answer. And you are right, Dubinsky is playing lights out on wing and should stay on the wing.
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
By who? The worst of the worst NHL front office executives and casual fans that are as out of touch with the game as Glen Sather is?
A shoe-in according to who? Glen Sather? Aside from Brian Gionta, name a player that Scott Gomez has developed chemistry with.
Many experts lauded the signing of both Gomez and Drury.
Drury was coming off of 2 30 goal 30 assist seasons in a row and was signed at the age of 30. Very close to Brad Richards' age area. He was supposed to bring a new attitude, and oh what a class act. He stinks at hockey when it comes down to it.
For the record Gomez didn't play that bad as a ranger, especially statistically. He racked up the assists regardless of line/assignment. His issue was over confidence with the puck and really not fitting in with the scheme set in place. I think in Torts system he would have been more of a fit but regardless still didn't play up to the number on his contract which, say what you want, is what he is remembered for.
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
Drury was Captain Clutch...what does his nickname mean and what bearing does that have on this conversation? Drury's statistical "decline" was predictable to any knowledgeable observer. It's exactly why he isn't or ever was a big name.
It has everything to do with what we are talking about. The signing of players who are supposed to bring things to the table and don;t deliver. He was marketed as the guy you can count on, who'll come through for your team, blah blah blah.
-Chris Drury represented our country in this sport twice in the last 8 years.
-Scored 30 goals and 30 assists in his previous 2 seasons with Buffalo.
This is the problem. You are comparing an AVERAGE at best second line center and a third line center/PP specialist with one of the smarter playmakers in the league and a legitimate top line center (and a former Conn Smythe Trophy winner). The situations are completely different. For what it's worth, I was 100% against signing Gomez, Drury, Redden, Voros, Kotalik, and almost every free agent this team has signed since the lockout, not to mention so many before. That's because NONE of the free agents this team has signed in YEARS, other than Gaborik, is a legitimate superstar player. Richards is.
The word superstar is used way too loosely here. Ovechkin is a superstar Crosby and Malkin are superstars. Stamkos is a superstar. not many others are, Brad Richards is not a superstar but he is the cream of the crop regarding next years FA market.
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Originally Posted by Sting36e
Again, what does this mean? Brad Richards is one of the best players in the league at his position and he fills the most important role in the league, a role that is glaringly empty on the New York Rangers.
Crosby
Malkin
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Sedin
Stamkos
not in that order, are all better then Brad Richards. It would be silly to pay 8 million dollars for the 6th best Center in the league.
Ok, if you want to be condescending instead of understanding both sides of the argument then I can do so as well!
You've yet to make anything that constitutes a series of arguments.
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The Devils haven't missed the playoffs in 15 years.
That's exactly the point. How much longer do you think they were going to be able to make that last? They signed Ilya Kovalchuk because they understand what you apparently don't: over the course of the next 1-2-3 seasons, they're going to have to completely overhaul their team.
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Coming into the season they has a goalie that was rated a top 5 goaltender, one of the most talented 1st lines on paper, and a strong bottom core of grit players, youre being silly! "Yea you know what screw this year we're playing for in 3-5 years" The devils didn't plan on this by any stretch of the imagination, proof will be when they fire John MacLean by Feb-March. They've struggled mostly because of injuries plus hampering contracts, not because they didn't attempt to put on a solid product on the ice.
Is their team, on paper and fully healthy, stronger than Philly? Pittsburgh? Washington? Boston? That would be no, no, no, no. At best, they were going to be a playoff team this year. Certainly not a legit contender.
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Lets use logic here....If a player is signed to 7.8 million dollars and lives up to his contract will he ask for less or more when hitting the Free Agent Market?
answer that question, please do it
Again, who will be able to offer him such a deal?
There is probably only one significant contender in this league that has the cap space to do so: Los Angeles, and they'll certainly be one of the top suitors for his services. Even they, however, will probably be unwilling to offer up as monumental a contract as you think he'll get, because he's not nearly as big a necessity for them as he would be to another team, like us for example.
Do you think he's going to go to a crap team with a lot of cap space just to get the biggest payday? I don't.
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Who is to say that Richards is a lock?
The evidence that is his NHL career?
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You're willing to pay 8 million dollars a year to find out? I'm just not sold is all, not saying I wouldn't welcome Richards with open arms but I think if theres one thing we've learned from the last 15 years of this organization is that highly paid acquisitions don't play well in New York. And yet, we overpay and miss time after time. And then you get mad at fans like me for being gun-shy.
I get mad at fans "like you" for being unable to make the distinction between Brad Richards and Scott Gomez, Chris Drury and every free agent other than Gaborik that this team has signed. So you were against us signing Gaborik too, then, right?
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Just looking back at some of the disgusting rosters the Rangers played with is an embarrassment in the late 90's to the pre-lockout.
And yet none of that has any bearing on signing Brad Richards.
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I'm sorry if I don't want to watch my team get stripped and ***** because we have Four players making 30 million and 18 others making 800 k. If the Rangers go after Richards, they will have these players (regardless of 1 year left or etc.) making 5 mil plus Henrik Lundqvist, Michael Roszival, Marian Gaborik, Chris Drury, Wade Redden (still on the cap) and Brad Richards. With the responsibilities of resigning basically the core of our youth.
Except that Chris Drury and Michal Rozsival are nearing the end of their contracts, and Wade Redden will probably end up going to play in Europe, unless he really wants to remain in the AHL for the duration of his contract.
You would be paying 21 million for a superstar goalie, a superstar goalscoring winger, and a superstar playmaking center. That's a huge difference from the situation this team has been in.
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Many experts lauded the signing of both Gomez and Drury.
First of all, who are these "experts" and why does their opinion mean anything. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that most "experts" panned the signings and chalked them up to the continuation of the Glen Sather tradition: overpaying complimentary players.
And it's comments like the following that bring me to the end of this discussion, because clearly there's no point in continuing.
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Drury was coming off of 2 30 goal 30 assist seasons in a row and was signed at the age of 30. Very close to Brad Richards' age area. He was supposed to bring a new attitude, and oh what a class act. He stinks at hockey when it comes down to it.
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For the record Gomez didn't play that bad as a ranger, especially statistically. He racked up the assists regardless of line/assignment. His issue was over confidence with the puck and really not fitting in with the scheme set in place. I think in Torts system he would have been more of a fit but regardless still didn't play up to the number on his contract which, say what you want, is what he is remembered for.
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It has everything to do with what we are talking about. The signing of players who are supposed to bring things to the table and don;t deliver. He was marketed as the guy you can count on, who'll come through for your team, blah blah blah.
-Chris Drury represented our country in this sport twice in the last 8 years.
-Scored 30 goals and 30 assists in his previous 2 seasons with Buffalo.
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The word superstar is used way too loosely here. Ovechkin is a superstar Crosby and Malkin are superstars. Stamkos is a superstar. not many others are, Brad Richards is not a superstar but he is the cream of the crop regarding next years FA market.
It's not surprising that you think Gomez played well as a Ranger, but Drury "stinks at hockey when it comes down to it."
Until you're able to make the distinction between franchise-level players and role players, or the difference between what is marketed and what is real, then there's no point in prolonging this.
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Crosby
Malkin
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Sedin
Stamkos
not in that order, are all better then Brad Richards. It would be silly to pay 8 million dollars for the 6th best Center in the league.
Silly would be passing up the opportunity to solidify what is easily this team's biggest weakness, especially when such opportunities come around so infrequently. None of the six centers you mentioned have a winger the caliber of Marian Gaborik to play with. Having that option alone makes an acquisition of Richards that much more valuable.
Why just let Rozsival's contract expire when you can get something for him? Yes, 20 minutes is difficult replace, but we're not talking about Lidstrom here. Even if you take a step back on the blueline for a season, you can't just lose him for nothing.
The Rangers will be a top suitor for Richards this summer if they know what's good for them, and they'll have to trade Rozsival to do so, which is fine. The 2012 free agent class stinks. No center comes even close to Richards' level in 2012. You can get a tolerable replacement for Rozsival at half the cap hit on the free agent market for a year or two. You've got Valentenko coming up, you've got McDonagh coming up.
YEs, we can lose him for nothing and should. He plays key minutes and I'm not willing to take a step back on the blueline. No reason to really, either. Hold him til the deal expires.
YEs, we can lose him for nothing and should. He plays key minutes and I'm not willing to take a step back on the blueline. No reason to really, either. Hold him til the deal expires.
Hmmm ... this makes no sense to me
I think Kreider wins a spot on this team, he and Zuccarello. I think Grachev gets dealt at the deadline, but I don't know why I think that.
Ever think a major factor as to why this team is looking like a TEAM this season? No major turnover.
Keep plugging holes with home grown players.
I think Kreider with his speed could do nasty things with Gaborik.
I wanted to make a bold statement about Rozi's value. We wouldn't be able to replace him, so losing him would weaken our team. We aren't so short on assets that we need to trade our upcoming FAs for anything we can get. Really, I feel we'd be silly to dump Rozi just to get a pick or 2. Rozi is worth more to our team than that.
I agree with plugging holes with youth, but only when they are ready to contribute. Look at Boyle - last year wasn't ready, this year he is. That's the way to do it. But don't force them into roles they can't fill yet.
Because that's all a result of the Kovalchuk signing. Give me a break.
