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Eklund: Setoguchi for Beauchemin

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Old
11-21-2010, 08:34 PM
  #76
ThorNton Apologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Schenn isn't even close to Marleau value wise. He's not even very good right now. You are comparing a 40+ goal scoring two-way forward in his prime with a young struggling one-way defensemen.

Doug Wilson would be shot in the street if he did that.
Did you even read my post? i never tried to compare Marleau and Schenn. i simply stated Marleau has higher value. to respond to the poster who sayd it would take Marleau to get Schenn. BTW if you think Schenn is "struggling" then you must not watch the leafs. because many would argue he has been there best Dman and has found a good chemistry with Kaberle

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11-21-2010, 10:05 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Firegarrett View Post
I agree that Schenn is not quite worth Marleau. My only disagreement would be
Schenn's value to Tor>>> Seto's Value to us
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Originally Posted by Firegarrett View Post
Did you even read my post? i never tried to compare Marleau and Schenn. i simply stated Marleau has higher value. to respond to the poster who sayd it would take Marleau to get Schenn. BTW if you think Schenn is "struggling" then you must not watch the leafs. because many would argue he has been there best Dman and has found a good chemistry with Kaberle
Schenn is not quite worth Marleau implies their value is close, it isn't. Not even remotely.

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11-21-2010, 10:50 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Schenn is not quite worth Marleau implies their value is close, it isn't. Not even remotely.
Well IMO Schenn's value to Toronto is close to Marleau's value to us. you may deny it but ask ANY toronto fan

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Old
11-21-2010, 11:53 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
In what alternate reality do you live in that makes you believe Luke Schenn is worth Patrick Marleau? And what exactly has Schenn done that supposedly gives him more trade value than Setoguchi? He may be having a better season than Setoguchi so far, but no one judges a player based on a 19 game season. They are pretty even in terms of trade value, even if they would never be traded for each other.
Semi agree here B.O.G. but, this is changing quickly as Seto continues on this downward spiral, if it hasn't changed already as Schenn is going in the opposite direction of Seto at this time.

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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Schenn isn't even close to Marleau value wise. He's not even very good right now. You are comparing a 40+ goal scoring two-way forward in his prime with a young struggling one-way defensemen.
Doug Wilson would be shot in the street if he did that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firegarrett View Post
Did you even read my post? i never tried to compare Marleau and Schenn. i simply stated Marleau has higher value. to respond to the poster who sayd it would take Marleau to get Schenn. BTW if you think Schenn is "struggling" then you must not watch the leafs. because many would argue he has been there best Dman and has found a good chemistry with Kaberle
H.B., on this matter Fig. is 100% correct. Schenn has been awesome thus far and, is getting huge praise out here. Truly heading in the opposite direction of Seto. Personally, I can't see Burke do a 1 for 1 at this moment in time but, Gunnarsson would be a solid pick up and, "if" Burke did decide to move Schenn, it would most likely be a Seto. + deal at this point. The Leafs problems out here are up front--Kessel, kulemin, Grabovski (some nights), Versteeg, Macarthur and.....nobody else. Kessel the only real name though.


Last edited by 19sharks19: 11-22-2010 at 12:01 AM.
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Old
11-22-2010, 12:39 AM
  #80
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Before anyone gets going too far on Schenn, he looks good because of +/-, but Qualcomp needed checking. It is pretty clear that RW is getting Schenn/Kaberle the softest matchups. That tends to help +/-. The second indicator is Corsi QoC which is not so good. Glad to see that normal fans aren't looking too deeply at what goes into performance.

Check behindthenet.ca

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/new_...team=TOR&pos=D

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11-22-2010, 12:42 AM
  #81
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Easy, is it better to look at reg Corsi QoC or Rel?

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11-22-2010, 01:05 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Davidhye View Post
Easy, is it better to look at reg Corsi QoC or Rel?
I use Corsi QoC to be consistent, no Rel. Roughly the same ranking. BTW, Schenn does come out well in the Rating column because he is dominating that lesser competition. IMO, on his own, Schenn would be a poor anchor and will require a vet partner into the far future. Not a candidate for even a #2 PPQB. Definitely not what the Sharks need.

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11-22-2010, 02:52 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Before anyone gets going too far on Schenn, he looks good because of +/-, but Qualcomp needed checking. It is pretty clear that RW is getting Schenn/Kaberle the softest matchups. That tends to help +/-. The second indicator is Corsi QoC which is not so good. Glad to see that normal fans aren't looking too deeply at what goes into performance.

Check behindthenet.ca

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2010/new_...team=TOR&pos=D
I didn't even know that his ES defense partner was Tomas Kaberle. That tells me all about the type of competition he is facing on a nightly basis, without looking at the numbers on the chart. Ron Wilson is smart enough to keep Tomas Kaberle at least 3 square miles of ice away from any forward with legitimate offensive talent.

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11-22-2010, 04:11 PM
  #84
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As usual Eklund is connecting dots based on conversations that teams have been having and doesn't really know in the end which players the teams are talking about. But trust me Eklund has the wrong defenceman.

Allow me to channel Eklund and connect the dots.

Toronto is looking for scoring and has been speaking to SJ about Seto and SJ is looking for a two way help along the blueline. So the trade looks something like

Seto to Toronto in exchange for Dman X
There is also rumored to be some picks involved in this deal.

Here is the way I see this going down:

SJ and Toronto both send picks to Edmonton
Edmonton recalls Souray and Toronto picks him up off the waiver
Toronto trades Souray to SJ for Seto.

The delay in Eklund's rumor speaks that Toronto is waiting to pull the trigger till Dion is healthy, again Eklund incorrectly connects the dots and it is Souray's health that the deal rides on. Then again I am only connecting the dots, but Seto for Souray (@2.5M) makes more sense than Beauchemin.

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Old
11-22-2010, 04:29 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I use Corsi QoC to be consistent, no Rel. Roughly the same ranking. BTW, Schenn does come out well in the Rating column because he is dominating that lesser competition. IMO, on his own, Schenn would be a poor anchor and will require a vet partner into the far future. Not a candidate for even a #2 PPQB. Definitely not what the Sharks need.
Easy, if I'm looking at the Behindthenet numbers correctly, then it seems to make sense to look for dmen who have above average Qualcomps and positive Corsi. 2 dmen that have been discussed on this board seem to fit the bill:

Beauchemin (Qualcomp= 0.044, Corsi = 1.946)
Tom Gilbert (Qualcomp = 0.04, Corsi = 3.159)

Another interesting observation is all 4 of PHX's top 4 dmen have above average Qualcomps and positive Corsi's. That's nuts.

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11-22-2010, 04:33 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
As usual Eklund is connecting dots based on conversations that teams have been having and doesn't really know in the end which players the teams are talking about. But trust me Eklund has the wrong defenceman.

Allow me to channel Eklund and connect the dots.

Toronto is looking for scoring and has been speaking to SJ about Seto and SJ is looking for a two way help along the blueline. So the trade looks something like

Seto to Toronto in exchange for Dman X
There is also rumored to be some picks involved in this deal.

Here is the way I see this going down:

SJ and Toronto both send picks to Edmonton
Edmonton recalls Souray and Toronto picks him up off the waiver
Toronto trades Souray to SJ for Seto.

The delay in Eklund's rumor speaks that Toronto is waiting to pull the trigger till Dion is healthy, again Eklund incorrectly connects the dots and it is Souray's health that the deal rides on. Then again I am only connecting the dots, but Seto for Souray (@2.5M) makes more sense than Beauchemin.
I wouldn't mind Souray @$2.7 (not $2.5) even with the injury and locker room risk (supposedly on the latter). Not sure if I'd want Seto being traded. Perhaps we could get a Cogliano or another speedy youngster back.

I assume this is speculation and all predicated on the Islanders not putting in a claim on Souray. By my count, Toronto has the 4th pick in the waivers, the Devils have zero cap room to make a claim and the Oilers (obviously) wouldn't count. It'd just be up to the Islanders, right?

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11-22-2010, 04:50 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herschel View Post
As usual Eklund is connecting dots based on conversations that teams have been having and doesn't really know in the end which players the teams are talking about. But trust me Eklund has the wrong defenceman.

Allow me to channel Eklund and connect the dots.

Toronto is looking for scoring and has been speaking to SJ about Seto and SJ is looking for a two way help along the blueline. So the trade looks something like

Seto to Toronto in exchange for Dman X
There is also rumored to be some picks involved in this deal.

Here is the way I see this going down:

SJ and Toronto both send picks to Edmonton
Edmonton recalls Souray and Toronto picks him up off the waiver
Toronto trades Souray to SJ for Seto.

The delay in Eklund's rumor speaks that Toronto is waiting to pull the trigger till Dion is healthy, again Eklund incorrectly connects the dots and it is Souray's health that the deal rides on. Then again I am only connecting the dots, but Seto for Souray (@2.5M) makes more sense than Beauchemin.
I appreciate the thought, but Souray isn't a solution. He has a great shot on the PP but the PP isn't our problem. He's good on the PK too, but we have players with size to knock people down. The personnel issue with our team is we lack puck-carriers who can control the exit and move out with speed. Souray is neither fast nor is he a good skater with the puck. Doesn't seem to be the right guy if we are trading a fast forward with upside - to get back a slower defenseman that is aging and doen't properly fill a void.

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11-22-2010, 05:19 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I wouldn't mind Souray @$2.7 (not $2.5) even with the injury and locker room risk (supposedly on the latter). Not sure if I'd want Seto being traded. Perhaps we could get a Cogliano or another speedy youngster back.

I assume this is speculation and all predicated on the Islanders not putting in a claim on Souray. By my count, Toronto has the 4th pick in the waivers, the Devils have zero cap room to make a claim and the Oilers (obviously) wouldn't count. It'd just be up to the Islanders, right?
"Hey, Garth, remember that little favor I did you this off-season? Don't claim Souray"

I'm kidding of course.

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11-23-2010, 12:14 PM
  #89
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I don't think NYI would pick him up off waivers. They have zero interest in spending anything beyond the cap floor.

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11-23-2010, 12:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
I wouldn't mind Souray @$2.7 (not $2.5) even with the injury and locker room risk (supposedly on the latter). Not sure if I'd want Seto being traded. Perhaps we could get a Cogliano or another speedy youngster back.

I assume this is speculation and all predicated on the Islanders not putting in a claim on Souray. By my count, Toronto has the 4th pick in the waivers, the Devils have zero cap room to make a claim and the Oilers (obviously) wouldn't count. It'd just be up to the Islanders, right?
I believe the reduced cap hit of 2.7 would only be for this season, and next year the Sharks would be on the hook for his entire salary, does that work long term?

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11-23-2010, 12:46 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
I believe the reduced cap hit of 2.7 would only be for this season, and next year the Sharks would be on the hook for his entire salary, does that work long term?
We should get KDB to confirm but believe the split cap hit is for the duration of the player's deal.

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11-23-2010, 12:58 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
I believe the reduced cap hit of 2.7 would only be for this season, and next year the Sharks would be on the hook for his entire salary, does that work long term?
I read on a legit site that the reduced cap hit would be for the remainder of his contract if claimed on waivers. It didn't explain why.

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11-23-2010, 02:41 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I read on a legit site that the reduced cap hit would be for the remainder of his contract if claimed on waivers. It didn't explain why.
It's part of the CBA. If a player is claimed off of recall waivers, then the recalling team must carry half of his cap hit (and contract I believe) for the remainder of the contract, as long as the player remains with the team that claimed him.

If the team that claimed the player subsequently trades him (after that season), the acquiring team takes the full contract amount.

So if the Sharks claimed Souray on recall waivers this year, the Edmonton would be liable for half of Souray's cap hit. If the Sharks then traded Souray to the Isles (for example) at the start of next season, the Isles would take the full cap hit for his entire salary.

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11-23-2010, 02:52 PM
  #94
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Thanks. I don't know why I also thought the rule was only 1/2 for the first year.

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11-23-2010, 03:09 PM
  #95
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Thanks. I don't know why I also thought the rule was only 1/2 for the first year.
i also made this mistake. it's rare, since multiple years of dead cap space is a hard pill to swallow.

sean avery's an example of it being split for the remainder of the contract rather than just one year:
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=638

under "reentry waiver losses" for dallas: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=14
and the other half here for the rangers: http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

NHL CBA 50.9(g)(ii)
To the extent the Player does require Waivers to be loaned to a minor league affiliate, he cannot be Loaned or recalled without first clearing regular Waivers, and then cannot be Recalled to the NHL parent Club during the same League Year without also clearing a new Re-Entry Waiver procedure, pursuant to which the Player can be claimed by another NHL Club for fifty (50) percent of the contract's remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to be paid by and charged to the waiving NHL Club (both amounts to be counted against each Club's Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary, and counted against the Players' Share)

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11-23-2010, 04:06 PM
  #96
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Thanks. I don't know why I also thought the rule was only 1/2 for the first year.
I thought this earlier this year. I think there was some bad info from a good source that got spread early on cause I distinctly remember that being the case as well. But several the sharks boards most knowledgeable posters (kdb?) have confirmed that its half for the rest of the contract.

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