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Marc-Andre Bergeron to Tampa?

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Old
11-26-2010, 02:36 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Randy Jones is awful. Clark had a bit of a rep, but he was at least known for blocking shots and could be serviceable in his own end. Jones flat out stinks. He brings no aspect to the game that is better than any of our other d-men have, and Philly and LA were lad when he left. As the deadline approaches, I expect a better defenseman to fill his spot.

I say package Jones with someone and/or maybe an asset of some sort and go for Bieksa, or if the circumstance arises, make a pitch for Weber at the deadline should he not get re-signed.
Are you talking about Randy Jones of this year or previous? He has been fine for us. I can remember more good plays that have led to goals FOR us than bad plays that have gone in against us.

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11-26-2010, 02:44 PM
  #52
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If you think Randy Jones has been awful you haven't watched the Lightning. He may have been awful in Philadelphia and Los Angeles but that is irrelevant to us because Boucher has him playing well.

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11-26-2010, 03:25 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Randy Jones is awful. Clark had a bit of a rep, but he was at least known for blocking shots and could be serviceable in his own end. Jones flat out stinks. He brings no aspect to the game that is better than any of our other d-men have, and Philly and LA were lad when he left. As the deadline approaches, I expect a better defenseman to fill his spot.

I say package Jones with someone and/or maybe an asset of some sort and go for Bieksa, or if the circumstance arises, make a pitch for Weber at the deadline should he not get re-signed.
You say Jones is bad yet you want Bieksa?

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11-26-2010, 04:58 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by newham89 View Post
Are you talking about Randy Jones of this year or previous? He has been fine for us. I can remember more good plays that have led to goals FOR us than bad plays that have gone in against us.
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Originally Posted by The Yzerman effect View Post
If you think Randy Jones has been awful you haven't watched the Lightning. He may have been awful in Philadelphia and Los Angeles but that is irrelevant to us because Boucher has him playing well.
For him, he's playing well. For our D, I guess you could say the same. I still notice some atrocious turnovers, lack of physicality, and overall lackluster play in our own zone from Jones. Lately he's been better, but don't think he's a stalwart because he stuck out his stick a few times. I also don't think his play with the puck is anywhere near worth justifying the minutes he gets.

But hey, if he can keep up his "good" play, I won't have any issues.
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
You say Jones is bad yet you want Bieksa?
Money aside, any GM in the history of the NHL would take Bieksa over Jones. It's not even remotely close.

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11-26-2010, 05:29 PM
  #55
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Any GM would also take Jones' contract over Bieksa's. Bieksa is awful, no thanks from us unless your throwing in the Sedin's as well.

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11-26-2010, 06:35 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
For him, he's playing well. For our D, I guess you could say the same. I still notice some atrocious turnovers, lack of physicality, and overall lackluster play in our own zone from Jones. Lately he's been better, but don't think he's a stalwart because he stuck out his stick a few times. I also don't think his play with the puck is anywhere near worth justifying the minutes he gets.

But hey, if he can keep up his "good" play, I won't have any issues.


Money aside, any GM in the history of the NHL would take Bieksa over Jones. It's not even remotely close.
You mean his 8 turnovers in 21 games? The 32 blocked shots in 21 games to be second best on the team plus his six points from the backend?

He has earned his minutes, there is no doubt about it, but as always in his career you have to ask yourself if he can sustain the pace and at this point in his career the answer has been no.

Bieksas stats, hate to say it, were about the same as Jones last year.

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11-26-2010, 06:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
You mean his 8 turnovers in 21 games? The 32 blocked shots in 21 games to be second best on the team plus his six points from the backend?

He has earned his minutes, there is no doubt about it, but as always in his career you have to ask yourself if he can sustain the pace and at this point in his career the answer has been no.

Bieksas stats, hate to say it, were about the same as Jones last year.
Bieksa is having an awful season and I'd take him over Jones any day of the week salary aside. Again, you can point to stats all you want, but Randy Jones is mediocre at best. I'm not trying to troll here, but I've seen this guy play for years and he is just not good in my opinion.

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11-26-2010, 07:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Bieksa is having an awful season and I'd take him over Jones any day of the week salary aside. Again, you can point to stats all you want, but Randy Jones is mediocre at best. I'm not trying to troll here, but I've seen this guy play for years and he is just not good in my opinion.
Bieksa has always been a slightly above average defender - slightly. He still suffers from giveaways and his biggest asset to get him out of trouble, his speed, has been missing since his Achilles injury.

If this were two years ago, i'd be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands right now his giveaway totals are ugly, his speed is poor, and his offensive production is below average on a stacked team (1-3-4).

I get where you're coming from and i've watched the both of them for quite some time, but I don't think its too crazy to call them near even today, sadly. I really liked Bieksa.

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11-26-2010, 07:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Bieksa has always been a slightly above average defender - slightly. He still suffers from giveaways and his biggest asset to get him out of trouble, his speed, has been missing since his Achilles injury.

If this were two years ago, i'd be inclined to agree with you, but as it stands right now his giveaway totals are ugly, his speed is poor, and his offensive production is below average on a stacked team (1-3-4).

I get where you're coming from and i've watched the both of them for quite some time, but I don't think its too crazy to call them near even today, sadly. I really liked Bieksa.
Can't really argue that. Bieksa has certainly declined, but I still would lean heavily his way all other things being equal.

We'll just agree to disagree.

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11-26-2010, 07:41 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Brad2891 View Post
Can't really argue that. Bieksa has certainly declined, but I still would lean heavily his way all other things being equal.

We'll just agree to disagree.
That and there is one more distinct difference i'll make, and while it isn't everything it is worth mentioning.

Bieksa was paired with Willie Mitchell nearly 24% of his ES time, followed by Rome and Edler at 15% and 14%. Mitchell was more responsible and was usually the "stand back" guy for Bieksa to transition.

Randy Jones was with Jack Johnson 47% of the time who is fantastic, but also didn't hit his stride until the Olympics, had some defensive inconsistencies, and actually pushed play while Jones was the stay at home guy, which really doesn't fit him. Jones struggles at times getting back and getting himself positionally sound in odd man rushes.

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Old
12-15-2010, 08:52 AM
  #61
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Spoke with the agent for Marc-Andre Bergeron, hopes to sign before Christmas. Declined to discuss what teams he is talking with right now.

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:51 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
You mean his 8 turnovers in 21 games? The 32 blocked shots in 21 games to be second best on the team plus his six points from the backend?

He has earned his minutes, there is no doubt about it, but as always in his career you have to ask yourself if he can sustain the pace and at this point in his career the answer has been no.

Bieksas stats, hate to say it, were about the same as Jones last year.

Not to mention he is easily our best penalty killing defenseman. Its where he has earned his money the most. He plays more on the kill than any player and its a top 5 unit. I have no problems with the guy, he's been better than expected.

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Old
12-15-2010, 10:58 PM
  #63
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Question: Marty seems to run the PP as its QB at the top of the diamond. Why the need for MAB?

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12-15-2010, 11:57 PM
  #64
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Question: Marty seems to run the PP as its QB at the top of the diamond. Why the need for MAB?
To put a shooting threat on both circles. Teams are cheating heavily to Stamkos side, and we need to punish them for that.

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12-16-2010, 12:23 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
To put a shooting threat on both circles. Teams are cheating heavily to Stamkos side, and we need to punish them for that.
Why then isn't Kubina RHS shot being utlized opposite Marty's LHS on the PP? Would seem a better fit than MAB who is another LHS...

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12-16-2010, 07:47 AM
  #66
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Why then isn't Kubina RHS shot being utlized opposite Marty's LHS on the PP? Would seem a better fit than MAB who is another LHS...
Good question, think its just the design of his PP - the top guy floats from circle to circle and you either have a shooter that moves towards the blueline to open a shooting lane, or someone sliding to a different spot on the circle.

That, and i'm sure theres a little issue with speed.

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12-16-2010, 10:27 AM
  #67
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From hockey30.com, a hockey site in province of Quebec:

The agent for Marc-Andre Bergeron has confirmed our
informant that the defender had indeed offer
one year on the table (one-way contract) from the
Tampa Bay Lightning. However, Corbeil advised
his client to expect to raise the stakes.
The San Jose Sharks and the Blues in St. Louis would
always interested in the defender.

- According to our information, the Quebecers will eventually accept
Lightning's offer. He just wants to see if it can
fetch more money.

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12-17-2010, 12:31 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsled Gainey View Post
Good question, think its just the design of his PP - the top guy floats from circle to circle and you either have a shooter that moves towards the blueline to open a shooting lane, or someone sliding to a different spot on the circle.

That, and i'm sure theres a little issue with speed.
Yeah okay, I can envision MAB on the TBL PP1 deployed as the "Stamkos of the right side" (with a little rovering to the slot mixed in a la Clark). MAB would primarily set up shop near the top of the right circle, firing away left-handed bombs from the off wing, just like Stamkos does from the left side with his right-handed shot. Marty likely stays at the head of the diamond distributing as necessary with Malone in front of the net and Vinny manning the right boards especially down low (much like Thornton) looking for both Stamkos and MAB as they move in and out of passing lanes.

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Old
12-17-2010, 04:32 AM
  #69
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I disagree with Jones been "good", he has not been as awful as for the Kings and Flyers, I agree with that but when you watch the games he makes bad mistakes all the time.

You do get nervous when he is on the ice..

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12-17-2010, 06:16 AM
  #70
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I disagree with Jones been "good", he has not been as awful as for the Kings and Flyers, I agree with that but when you watch the games he makes bad mistakes all the time.

You do get nervous when he is on the ice..
I don't.

It was much worse with Malik or Krajicek IMO.

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12-17-2010, 06:44 AM
  #71
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It was much worse with Malik or Krajicek IMO.
100% agree. LK was frightened of getting the puck.

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12-17-2010, 08:20 AM
  #72
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Well he has costed us three goals in the previous six games, I would say that is quite bad, then we also have to consider that the Oilers game was probably his best..

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12-17-2010, 08:22 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightningfanqc View Post
From hockey30.com, a hockey site in province of Quebec:

The agent for Marc-Andre Bergeron has confirmed our
informant that the defender had indeed offer
one year on the table (one-way contract) from the
Tampa Bay Lightning.
However, Corbeil advised
his client to expect to raise the stakes.
The San Jose Sharks and the Blues in St. Louis would
always interested in the defender.

- According to our information, the Quebecers will eventually accept
Lightning's offer. He just wants to see if it can
fetch more money.

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Old
12-17-2010, 01:17 PM
  #74
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Well he has costed us three goals in the previous six games, I would say that is quite bad, then we also have to consider that the Oilers game was probably his best..
Yeah, he has costed us some goals, I remember one earlier in the season...
But as I said he has been better than expected and has also made some great plays in 2 v 1 and is key to our PK (which is ranked top-5 if I'm not mistaken).

Ellis and Smith have costed us much more bad goals than him

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Old
12-17-2010, 01:45 PM
  #75
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These must be damn low expectations.

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