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Kings vs. Blue Jackets - 11/17/11 - POSTGAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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Old
11-18-2010, 03:10 PM
  #101
wabwat
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the Kings 4th line played really well last night.

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11-18-2010, 03:13 PM
  #102
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the Kings 4th line played really well last night.
Seriously. I question anyone who says otherwise.

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11-18-2010, 03:18 PM
  #103
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So when does Kopitar get called out by Murray? I don't see any downside to it if he plays another game or two where he's lethargic. It's time to stop handling him with kid gloves, could have a positive effect on him because he's clearly capable of more (and no this isn't about points).

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11-18-2010, 03:21 PM
  #104
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So when does Kopitar get called out by Murray? I don't see any downside to it if he plays another game or two where he's lethargic. It's time to stop handling him with kid gloves, could have a positive effect on him because he's clearly capable of more (and no this isn't about points).
This too. It's a whole lot of fun watching him take it wide, skate all the way around the net, and then stop moving his feet while looking to find someone who isn't open in the slot...

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11-18-2010, 03:37 PM
  #105
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OK...I have been thinking about this since someone mentioned Brown's hockey sense.

I would like to start by saying that I think +/- is a mostly meaningless statistic, but how long does it take to ask yourself that maybe JJ is creating his own bad luck.

Scuderi, Doughty, and Mitchell are all +7, and Jack is a -1. That is a crazy stat considering those are the top 4 dmen eating the most minutes. Why is he so much different than anyone else?

In 2 of our last 6 losses Jack has been directly responsible for allowing an empty netter. Both times in game 6 against Vancouver, and this year against Phoenix there was a 50/50 puck in the offensive zone and he didn't attempt to go for it.

He backed off and created a 1 on 1 situation, he let the opponent gain the red line and have a free shot at the empty net. It is absolutely nuts that he doesn't step up and make a player beat him. Especially if he wold have just attempted to win the puck in the offensive zone. If he gets beat, it basically yields the same result of backing off and letting them have the red line.

At what point is he creating his own bad luck. People say that he was playing a different man and was away from the play when the goal was scored so it is not his fault. What if he is NOT supposed to be playing the man and is supposed to be in front of the net playing defense.

I could be off base here, but I am interested in hearing others thoughts...

I want Jack to be that top flight #2 or #3 dman as much as anyone.

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11-18-2010, 03:45 PM
  #106
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What drove me nuts about Brown last night were the number of plays he flubbed, particularly the giveaways from terrible pass attempts when the Kings were on the PP. Kopitar's stationary positioning and predictable movements and passes is also grating me.

It worked on the first goal when Johnson, Doughty and Kopitar set up an "umbrella" that opened Kopitar up for a shot and a rebound goal by Handzus, but beyond that, he was largely ineffective offensively. For the highest paid player on the team, he needs to be more dominant with the puck.

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11-18-2010, 04:46 PM
  #107
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The team misses Mitchell... badly. I don't think people realize how valuable he has been to this team.

Ponikarovsky's loss, and really any 1-3rd line winger's loss during the season is going to be significantly felt because Dean never really addressed the most glaring need this off-season, and boy howdy it's still glaring.

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11-18-2010, 05:22 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
OK...I have been thinking about this since someone mentioned Brown's hockey sense.

I would like to start by saying that I think +/- is a mostly meaningless statistic, but how long does it take to ask yourself that maybe JJ is creating his own bad luck.

Scuderi, Doughty, and Mitchell are all +7, and Jack is a -1. That is a crazy stat considering those are the top 4 dmen eating the most minutes. Why is he so much different than anyone else?

In 2 of our last 6 losses Jack has been directly responsible for allowing an empty netter. Both times in game 6 against Vancouver, and this year against Phoenix there was a 50/50 puck in the offensive zone and he didn't attempt to go for it.

He backed off and created a 1 on 1 situation, he let the opponent gain the red line and have a free shot at the empty net. It is absolutely nuts that he doesn't step up and make a player beat him. Especially if he wold have just attempted to win the puck in the offensive zone. If he gets beat, it basically yields the same result of backing off and letting them have the red line.

At what point is he creating his own bad luck. People say that he was playing a different man and was away from the play when the goal was scored so it is not his fault. What if he is NOT supposed to be playing the man and is supposed to be in front of the net playing defense.

Oh, and in a 50/50 puck in the zone you need to back off and play defense. I don't see where you're going with that.

I could be off base here, but I am interested in hearing others thoughts...

I want Jack to be that top flight #2 or #3 dman as much as anyone.
You said it yourself. +/- is a worthless statistic. Jack is a -5 the last two games and none have then have been close to his fault. In fact he has done his job admirably on each of them. He has also been unlucky having constantly gotten pucks through in the last two games and twice slowly floating by the goaltender but somehow gets stoped or kicked out before it passes the line. He also has 4 posts/crosbbars this year where he has beaten the goalie. He's been our best defender since game 4 this year.

Oh, and when there is a 50/50 puck in the offensive situation you always need to back off and play defense. I don't see where you're going with that. I'm so tired of people blaming him when things go bad. Nothing in the last two games has changed except he's a very unlucky -5.


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11-18-2010, 05:25 PM
  #109
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2. i honestly lay this one on Murray's feet. less than 4 minutes left, score tied, at home... he has GOT to outcoach the opposition... Drewiske/Muzzin should not have seen that match-up that late in the game regardless of how well Murray said they had played in his post-game presser. i mean, is THAT what he's throwing out there in a game 6 down 3 games to 2? situational reads and play aren't exclusive to the on-ice personnel.
I'll buy into that. I don't mean to put down the blue-jackets in any way but it's hard to dispute that Rick Nash is by far the most dangerous and legitimate scoring threat on that team. So much that if you were to focus on match-ups at all...he'd without a doubt be the biggest focus to the point where any other match-ups really aren't that important. Seeing Nash undress Drewiske for the game winner with 4 minutes left on home ice represents a complete failure of what should have been the most crucial defensive objective by a wide margin.

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11-18-2010, 05:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
OK...I have been thinking about this since someone mentioned Brown's hockey sense.

I would like to start by saying that I think +/- is a mostly meaningless statistic, but how long does it take to ask yourself that maybe JJ is creating his own bad luck.

Scuderi, Doughty, and Mitchell are all +7, and Jack is a -1. That is a crazy stat considering those are the top 4 dmen eating the most minutes. Why is he so much different than anyone else?

In 2 of our last 6 losses Jack has been directly responsible for allowing an empty netter. Both times in game 6 against Vancouver, and this year against Phoenix there was a 50/50 puck in the offensive zone and he didn't attempt to go for it.

He backed off and created a 1 on 1 situation, he let the opponent gain the red line and have a free shot at the empty net. It is absolutely nuts that he doesn't step up and make a player beat him. Especially if he wold have just attempted to win the puck in the offensive zone. If he gets beat, it basically yields the same result of backing off and letting them have the red line.

At what point is he creating his own bad luck. People say that he was playing a different man and was away from the play when the goal was scored so it is not his fault. What if he is NOT supposed to be playing the man and is supposed to be in front of the net playing defense.

I could be off base here, but I am interested in hearing others thoughts...

I want Jack to be that top flight #2 or #3 dman as much as anyone.
You said it yourself. +/- is a worthless statistic. Jack is a -5 the last two games and none have then have been close to his fault. In fact he has done his job admirably on each of them. He has also been unlucky having constantly gotten pucks through in the last two games and twice slowly floating by the goaltender but somehow gets stoped or kicked out before it passes the line. He also has 4 posts/crosbbars this year where he has beaten the goalie. He's been our best defender since game 4 this year.

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11-18-2010, 05:53 PM
  #111
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You said it yourself. +/- is a worthless statistic. Jack is a -5 the last two games and none have then have been close to his fault. In fact he has done his job admirably on each of them. He has also been unlucky having constantly gotten pucks through in the last two games and twice slowly floating by the goaltender but somehow gets stoped or kicked out before it passes the line. He also has 4 posts/crosbbars this year where he has beaten the goalie. He's been our best defender since game 4 this year.

Oh, and when there is a 50/50 puck in the offensive situation you always need to back off and play defense. I don't see where you're going with that. I'm so tired of people blaming him when things go bad. Nothing in the last two games has changed except he's a very unlucky -5.
My bad, I was alluding to the empty net situation where he has done that 2 of the last 6 losses.

I am also just bringing up a discussion, not trying to blast the guy....but I have been hearing this unlucky thing regarding him for over a year now. Just wondering if he is making his own bad luck.

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11-18-2010, 06:27 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
2. i honestly lay this one on Murray's feet. less than 4 minutes left, score tied, at home... he has GOT to outcoach the opposition... Drewiske/Muzzin should not have seen that match-up that late in the game regardless of how well Murray said they had played in his post-game presser. i mean, is THAT what he's throwing out there in a game 6 down 3 games to 2? situational reads and play aren't exclusive to the on-ice personnel.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Murray leave the d-pairings and their match-ups/changes to his d-men coach, Stevens?

I remember Jim Fox mentioning it during the TV broadcasts more than a few times last year while Hardy was behind the bench.

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11-18-2010, 06:44 PM
  #113
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Murray leave the d-pairings and their match-ups/changes to his d-men coach, Stevens?

I remember Jim Fox mentioning it during the TV broadcasts more than a few times last year while Hardy was behind the bench.
You may be right, but either way, Westgarth was also on the ice...

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11-18-2010, 07:53 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Thrice View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Murray leave the d-pairings and their match-ups/changes to his d-men coach, Stevens?

I remember Jim Fox mentioning it during the TV broadcasts more than a few times last year while Hardy was behind the bench.
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You may be right, but either way, Westgarth was also on the ice...

the pairing was set... he's (Murray) putting the players on the ice. i doubt Steven is yelling out the changes.

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11-18-2010, 09:58 PM
  #115
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People are idiots.

The Kings played a strong game, just not as dominant as the last few weeks. This was more the Blue Jackets playing really ****ing great in the third than it was about the Kings playing poorly.

The Kings had a few breakdowns and they almost all led to goals. Lately we've been getting those big saves from Quick, but last night he just didn't get them. He didn't play poorly, but he made no big saves either.

People hone in on singular moments. The Kings play a total of about 4 or 5 minutes poorly and then they say the Kings played a poor game, when in reality that Kings played well overall and paid for every one of their handful of stupid mistakes because the Jackets were on our ****.
It's when singular moments are repetitively symptomatic of a losing season is when there is trouble. I don't think that is the case now. That notwithstanding, I think that we're all a bit bipolar from time to time. One minute thrilled and the next minute ready to trade away whoever may have not have played as well.

Young players will make mistakes or have a learning curve to move past. That's how they get better. I think it's good one of our D got undressed by Nash. Maybe if he's playing in the playoffs later, he'll be wiser for it. But move on, and don't dwell on it. If he starts to blow it as often as Randy Jones did, then there is a discussion worth having. That's not been the case thus far. One game, get over it.

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11-18-2010, 11:17 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
OK...I have been thinking about this since someone mentioned Brown's hockey sense.

I would like to start by saying that I think +/- is a mostly meaningless statistic, but how long does it take to ask yourself that maybe JJ is creating his own bad luck.

Scuderi, Doughty, and Mitchell are all +7, and Jack is a -1. That is a crazy stat considering those are the top 4 dmen eating the most minutes. Why is he so much different than anyone else?

In 2 of our last 6 losses Jack has been directly responsible for allowing an empty netter. Both times in game 6 against Vancouver, and this year against Phoenix there was a 50/50 puck in the offensive zone and he didn't attempt to go for it.

He backed off and created a 1 on 1 situation, he let the opponent gain the red line and have a free shot at the empty net. It is absolutely nuts that he doesn't step up and make a player beat him. Especially if he wold have just attempted to win the puck in the offensive zone. If he gets beat, it basically yields the same result of backing off and letting them have the red line.

At what point is he creating his own bad luck. People say that he was playing a different man and was away from the play when the goal was scored so it is not his fault. What if he is NOT supposed to be playing the man and is supposed to be in front of the net playing defense.

I could be off base here, but I am interested in hearing others thoughts...

I want Jack to be that top flight #2 or #3 dman as much as anyone.
I've actually been impressed with Johnson's progress on defense this year, he's been active and gotten better positionally. It helps when he's paired with Scuds who's been excellent all year in both regards but one-on-one plays and in his overall effort I like what Johnson has been doing mostly.

If any one or even two guys were being called out for being responsible for goals against Columbus I think Drewiskie getting beat one-on-one on a pass that should never have traveled that distance and Muzzin getting buried protecting against neither man nor puck on the tying goal would have to come up before any discussion of an empty netter. Backchecking was not real strong but both of those goals were big errors by the rear guards.

You had other stuff that was sloppy, too, no one picks up the man out of the box (Klesla goal), I think they were caught in a partial D change on the Nash winner (am I wrong or was it Johnson out there, not Muzzin, on the other side???) and the Murray/Dorsett goal was also a breakdown that seemed to come off a slow change. Second period they could have been in worse shape, too, long change bothered them plus some sloppy plays with the puck in both ends. Hasty shots that should have been breakouts the other way, turnovers, just weak stuff that we have not seen much of this year.

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11-19-2010, 01:12 AM
  #117
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I've actually been impressed with Johnson's progress on defense this year, he's been active and gotten better positionally. It helps when he's paired with Scuds who's been excellent all year in both regards but one-on-one plays and in his overall effort I like what Johnson has been doing mostly.
I agree that we've seen a lot of Good-Jack and not so much Bad-Jack this year. In the first few games he made some of the Bad-Jack turn-overs that lead to goals and chances but he cleared that up.

I think it is very noticeable that JJ was off to a great start to the season while paired with Scuderi. +5 and putting up a ton of points. Mitchell gets injured, Scuderi is moved to play with DD and all of the Sudden JJ's numbers starts hurting. -6 in the last 2 games. ugly.

Meanwhile, DD is off to a sluggish start paired with Mitchell. Mitchell gets injured, DD has a new partner, and he is clearly playing better. More adventurous and willing to join the rush. 6 pts and +4 in the last 3.

Coincidence ?

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11-19-2010, 01:18 AM
  #118
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Eh, I think you're onto something with Jack and Scuds playing together, Scuderi is so responsible that he lets Jack take more chances and erases some mistakes so well that they are not even noticeable.

But with Doughty, nah, it's just a function of him getting his aggressiveness going. He was doing some good things offensively but the power play was cold and they had nice balance at even strength. Then he got hurt and hunkered down a little into some individual battles right when he got back. Now the power play is better, he's getting more aggressive and he is just shooting the puck a lot more. Two of his six points since returning have been power-play points where he's been out there with Jack and another one I think came right at the end of a power play. It's more of an individual thing there IMO, and I think he and Mitchell will pair nicely if they go back to that when Willie returns.

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11-19-2010, 01:34 AM
  #119
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I agree that we've seen a lot of Good-Jack and not so much Bad-Jack this year. In the first few games he made some of the Bad-Jack turn-overs that lead to goals and chances but he cleared that up.

I think it is very noticeable that JJ was off to a great start to the season while paired with Scuderi. +5 and putting up a ton of points. Mitchell gets injured, Scuderi is moved to play with DD and all of the Sudden JJ's numbers starts hurting. -6 in the last 2 games. ugly.

Meanwhile, DD is off to a sluggish start paired with Mitchell. Mitchell gets injured, DD has a new partner, and he is clearly playing better. More adventurous and willing to join the rush. 6 pts and +4 in the last 3.

Coincidence ?
I think it's just Doughty is more comfortable playing with Scuderi because he was partnered up with him for a whole season. With Mitchell, they have only played a handful of games together so they are still learning each others game.

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11-19-2010, 01:50 AM
  #120
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Eh, I think you're onto something with Jack and Scuds playing together, Scuderi is so responsible that he lets Jack take more chances and erases some mistakes so well that they are not even noticeable.

But with Doughty, nah, it's just a function of him getting his aggressiveness going. He was doing some good things offensively but the power play was cold and they had nice balance at even strength. Then he got hurt and hunkered down a little into some individual battles right when he got back. Now the power play is better, he's getting more aggressive and he is just shooting the puck a lot more. Two of his six points since returning have been power-play points where he's been out there with Jack and another one I think came right at the end of a power play. It's more of an individual thing there IMO, and I think he and Mitchell will pair nicely if they go back to that when Willie returns.
That was pretty much my point, actually :-). Even if it I didn't make it clear enough.

That Doughty was more comfortable playing with Scuderi - and that allowed/enabled him to play more offensivley. I know he's picked up a few PP points but we have seen him join the rush a lot more frequently. Not just the few times he's picked up points.

JJ on the other hand is now partnered up with whoever is available. And we don't have any one who can help him out like Scuds have been doing. And to be fair, he needs help in the defensive zone.


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11-19-2010, 07:50 AM
  #121
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Doughty is also playing himself into shape. He came to camp in terrible shape and then missed a couple of weeks due to the concussion. He is now 1 month into his season and is getting into game shape.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mitchell with Johnson when he gets back though.

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11-19-2010, 10:57 AM
  #122
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Doughty is also playing himself into shape. He came to camp in terrible shape and then missed a couple of weeks due to the concussion. He is now 1 month into his season and is getting into game shape.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mitchell with Johnson when he gets back though.
I don't think everyone realizes this. Doughty's conditioning is awful. For him to come to camp out of shape was borderline disgraceful. Luckily, conditioning IS something you can and will learn with age and experience. He has some fitness guru's in Greene, Smyth, Williams and Stoll to learn from as well.

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11-19-2010, 11:21 AM
  #123
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I don't think everyone realizes this. Doughty's conditioning is awful. For him to come to camp out of shape was borderline disgraceful. Luckily, conditioning IS something you can and will learn with age and experience. He has some fitness guru's in Greene, Smyth, Williams and Stoll to learn from as well.

i completely agree... this should have been first and foremost among the topics discussed during his post season exit interview.

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11-19-2010, 12:04 PM
  #124
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i completely agree... this should have been first and foremost among the topics discussed during his post season exit interview.
It is a bit disconcerting that he let himself slip to where he was before the draft. Look at a picture of him from the draft and look at a picture of him now. You can see in his face that he's put a good deal of body fat back on.

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11-19-2010, 04:01 PM
  #125
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Doughty is also playing himself into shape. He came to camp in terrible shape and then missed a couple of weeks due to the concussion. He is now 1 month into his season and is getting into game shape.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mitchell with Johnson when he gets back though.
Where is everyone getting this info from?

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