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Best option for Ryder

View Poll Results: Best Option for Michael Ryder
Trade him for anything 26 39.39%
Send him down to Providence 2 3.03%
Only trade him for a good return 38 57.58%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-18-2010, 12:03 PM
  #26
Twisted Tales
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A lot of people will regret trading Ryder once the Bruins reach the playoffs. A lot. In my opinion, it will be very hard for Sturm to do much or anything at all this season. Remember, he's had two major knee surgeries in 2 years (same knee if I'm not mistaken).

It will take a while - a long while - for his speed to come back. In fact, I doubt much of his speed will come back. Sturm without his speed is pretty much useless. Also, like others have pointed out, Sturm has health issues. Look at Andrei Markov, who came back from knee surgery and once bad bounce has put his season in jeopardy.

The problem is the Bruins won't send Sturm down to the AHL or trade him. Why? Because 1. Sturm has a NTC (I don't know all the detail, but would he have a say in being waived?), 2. it doesn't sit well with the organization where an injured player is thrown under. Same would go for Ryder if he is dropped to the AHL - I just don't see it.

It may be a long shot, but who is to say that it won't push away free agents from coming to Boston? Why come and face the possibility of being waived to the minors if cap issues continue to be a concern and because you are not performing to your 4+ million dollar contract?

I think it comes down to moving one or multiple of the following: Daniel Paille (won't get much), Matt Hunwick, Andrew Ference (I doubt it), Mark Stuart (big mistake to trade him), Blake Wheeler (a lot of Bruins fans hate him, but I think it will be a mistake to trade him), and Michael Ryder.

Wheeler has the most value because he is young, has potential and is a restricted free agent. The problem is, at the end of the year Ryder and Sturm are free agents, which would give the Bruins enough money to re-sign Wheeler should he not be traded. Same goes for Mark Stuart. But that is assuming the Bruins don't target any wingers this offseason.

Now, here's the big concern. Say Boston trade Ryder and/or Wheeler to make room for Sturm and Savard's return. In return Boston got low draft picks and maybe a minor league player or two. Freeing cap space, right? Now, Savard plays several games and decides to shut it down for another month or so because of fatigue or doesn't feel right after playing those games. Back on LTIR. Sturm, on the other hand, is slowly getting time on the ice, but is slow and contributing nothing to the team for 15-20 games (remember, he needs to get used to it). What then? Boston have traded Ryder and/or Wheeler for ..... nothing really. They still have the same issues, which are worse: Savard came back but after several games sees that he needs more time, Sturm is nothing close to being the Sturm we all know. The Bruins team is worse off, and has to rely on one line for offensive numbers.

Of course that is just an assumption, but an assumption that is very close to reality. Of course, I know that the Bruins cannot have Sturm and Savard back without clearing at least 4-5 million in cap. But healthy issues of Sturm and Savard are the bigger concerns here. Just because they're coming back in a month or two doesn't mean they'll be healthy enough to play the rest of the season. I really do believe that Sturm is finished. I'm not saying he won't play another game in his career, but without his speed (more problems on the knees) he'll be another Jonathan Cheechoo minus the 50+ goals in a season. Plus, Sturm isn't 23 years old anymore. He's 32 with two major surgeries on the same knee within the last 1-2 years.

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11-18-2010, 12:08 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
A lot of people will regret trading Ryder once the Bruins reach the playoffs. A lot. In my opinion, it will be very hard for Sturm to do much or anything at all this season. Remember, he's had two major knee surgeries in 2 years (same knee if I'm not mistaken).

It will take a while - a long while - for his speed to come back. In fact, I doubt much of his speed will come back. Sturm without his speed is pretty much useless. Also, like others have pointed out, Sturm has health issues. Look at Andrei Markov, who came back from knee surgery and once bad bounce has put his season in jeopardy.

The problem is the Bruins won't send Sturm down to the AHL or trade him. Why? Because 1. Sturm has a NTC (I don't know all the detail, but would he have a say in being waived?), 2. it doesn't sit well with the organization where an injured player is thrown under. Same would go for Ryder if he is dropped to the AHL - I just don't see it.

It may be a long shot, but who is to say that it won't push away free agents from coming to Boston? Why come and face the possibility of being waived to the minors if cap issues continue to be a concern and because you are not performing to your 4+ million dollar contract?

I think it comes down to moving one or multiple of the following: Daniel Paille (won't get much), Matt Hunwick, Andrew Ference (I doubt it), Mark Stuart (big mistake to trade him), Blake Wheeler (a lot of Bruins fans hate him, but I think it will be a mistake to trade him), and Michael Ryder.

Wheeler has the most value because he is young, has potential and is a restricted free agent. The problem is, at the end of the year Ryder and Sturm are free agents, which would give the Bruins enough money to re-sign Wheeler should he not be traded. Same goes for Mark Stuart. But that is assuming the Bruins don't target any wingers this offseason.

Now, here's the big concern. Say Boston trade Ryder and/or Wheeler to make room for Sturm and Savard's return. In return Boston got low draft picks and maybe a minor league player or two. Freeing cap space, right? Now, Savard plays several games and decides to shut it down for another month or so because of fatigue or doesn't feel right after playing those games. Back on LTIR. Sturm, on the other hand, is slowly getting time on the ice, but is slow and contributing nothing to the team for 15-20 games (remember, he needs to get used to it). What then? Boston have traded Ryder and/or Wheeler for ..... nothing really. They still have the same issues, which are worse: Savard came back but after several games sees that he needs more time, Sturm is nothing close to being the Sturm we all know. The Bruins team is worse off, and has to rely on one line for offensive numbers.

Of course that is just an assumption, but an assumption that is very close to reality. Of course, I know that the Bruins cannot have Sturm and Savard back without clearing at least 4-5 million in cap. But healthy issues of Sturm and Savard are the bigger concerns here. Just because they're coming back in a month or two doesn't mean they'll be healthy enough to play the rest of the season. I really do believe that Sturm is finished. I'm not saying he won't play another game in his career, but without his speed (more problems on the knees) he'll be another Jonathan Cheechoo minus the 50+ goals in a season. Plus, Sturm isn't 23 years old anymore. He's 32 with two major surgeries on the same knee within the last 1-2 years.
Great post. We seem to share a lot of the same concerns. People just assume that Sturm and Savard will be an instant upgrade. Unfortunately, the power play is so dismal right now that Savard better come back 100% and jump start that PP or they're going absolutely nowhere.

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Old
11-18-2010, 12:13 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
Great post. We seem to share a lot of the same concerns. People just assume that Sturm and Savard will be an instant upgrade. Unfortunately, the power play is so dismal right now that Savard better come back 100% and jump start that PP or they're going absolutely nowhere.
No kidding..

Sturm hasnt played more than a handful of games over the last two years, correct? Thats a LONG time off. His biggest asset may be gone and thats his speed, without that he becomes useless. EVEN on the PK it was his speed that helped. I think Sturm is done in the NHL. He may catch on with a German team, but NHL..its going to take way too long for the Bruins to wait and hope he returns to form.

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Old
11-18-2010, 12:57 PM
  #29
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I wouldn't go so far as to say he's done, but my point is why take a chance with the guy? At best, is he really going to be an upgrade over Ryder? I mean it's not like either guy is going to be back after this season anyway. I'd let Ryder finish out the contract year as it will hopefully motivate him. I'm happy with him so far this year.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:10 PM
  #30
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I just think that it's easier to get rid of Ryder while he's playing decent. I think a team would be able to take him on for a pick or mid-level prospect. The Kings, maybe?

It seems like it would be near impossible to trade multiple guys (Paille, Hunwick, Wheeler) and fix the cap situation at the same time.

If it gets to the point that both guys are coming back, something has to give and my guess is that is Ryder.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:15 PM
  #31
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Where is the keep him option. Dump Kneesy.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bme44 View Post
The Best place for the Bruins to put Ryder is on the roster and put Stum in the AHL or germany or anywhere but Boston
this!

guy deserves to be here, put Sturm on waivers, i like Sturm but it is a business and i want the players who are going to help us win!

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:18 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
I'm not buying the idea of letting Sturm play out the regular season in the AHL and then bringing him up for the playoffs. It wouldn't be effective for him or for the team. How is he going to have any chemistry with linemates in Boston come playoff time if his first playing time comes in game 1 of the playoffs.

Question, if someone else with a salary on the higher end were to get injured badly between now and and when Sturm/Savard come back can they just be put on LTIR and have Savard or Sturm come back without having to move anyone else.

ex. Say Horton goes down for the year, can Boston then fit in Savard and Sturm without making any other moves?

**fingers in ears** LALALALALALALALA I can't hear you!!!!!


A lot of people are saying bury Sturm/Ryder in Providence. Are we underestimating the effect that could have on player relations? It's a legitimate question, not trying to be snarky.

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11-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #34
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One player that I really think would fit in with the B's is Cody Franson from the Nashville Preds. Big frame, not afraid to take the body and is and offensive defense man which we need and a good PP player. He is cheap and still has lots of potential. He is also affordable after signing a two year deal worth 1.6 cap hit.

Nashville has been struggling as of late,

To Boston

Cody Franson

To Nashville

Michael Ryder/Marco Sturm, Matt Hunwick and maybe a pick or prospect?

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11-18-2010, 01:25 PM
  #35
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Also Nashville's blue line is already pretty stacked without Franson so they do have flexibility at that position.

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11-18-2010, 01:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by TheBigBadB View Post
No kidding..

Sturm hasnt played more than a handful of games over the last two years, correct? Thats a LONG time off. His biggest asset may be gone and thats his speed, without that he becomes useless. EVEN on the PK it was his speed that helped. I think Sturm is done in the NHL. He may catch on with a German team, but NHL..its going to take way too long for the Bruins to wait and hope he returns to form.
He played 76 games last year and led the team in goals. So no, that's incorrect.

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11-18-2010, 01:29 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kate08 View Post
A lot of people are saying bury Sturm/Ryder in Providence. Are we underestimating the effect that could have on player relations? It's a legitimate question, not trying to be snarky.
I'm definitely not in the bury Ryder in Providence gang, but I think the optics to the players of sending Ryder as the 4'th leading scorer on the team out for a draft pick is far worse. Players understand it's a business, that there is a cap, and I'd expect that they would believe that if you play good you should be rewarded. Sturm, Wheeler, Paille odd men out, I think they'd understand that.

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11-18-2010, 01:41 PM
  #38
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Given Ryder's salary it would be difficult to trade him. He has been playing well as of late, but not enough to justify his salary to another organization. No one will want to take on salary without giving some back. Boston can't go that route.

My understanding with Sturm is that he cannot be waived due to his No Movement Clause. While he will be well out of game shape and a project to get back on track, this might be a case of "Dance with the one you brought".

Unless another team is interested in taking on someone elses salary problem (Which never happens) it looks like Ryder may be the odd man out in being waived.

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Old
11-18-2010, 01:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
The problem is the Bruins won't send Sturm down to the AHL or trade him. Why? Because 1. Sturm has a NTC (I don't know all the detail, but would he have a say in being waived?), 2. it doesn't sit well with the organization where an injured player is thrown under. Same would go for Ryder if he is dropped to the AHL - I just don't see it.
You're missing the biggest problem in trading/sending down Sturm. To do so he has to pass through the active roster. If Savard returns before Sturm, this means that the Bruins would have to temporarily clear about 3.5M in cap space.

Also, Sturm has an NTC. He can be waived and sent to the AHL without his permission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
I think it comes down to moving one or multiple of the following: Daniel Paille (won't get much), Matt Hunwick, Andrew Ference (I doubt it), Mark Stuart (big mistake to trade him), Blake Wheeler (a lot of Bruins fans hate him, but I think it will be a mistake to trade him), and Michael Ryder.
If we move Ryder it's pretty simple. Ryder and Paille are enough to make the team cap compliant. If we decide to keep Ryder and waiver Sturm, it would likely necessitate us removing Paille, plus two of Hunwick, Ference, Stuart and Wheeler. It would likely also involve us exposing McQuaid to waivers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
Wheeler has the most value because he is young, has potential and is a restricted free agent. The problem is, at the end of the year Ryder and Sturm are free agents, which would give the Bruins enough money to re-sign Wheeler should he not be traded. Same goes for Mark Stuart. But that is assuming the Bruins don't target any wingers this offseason.
I agree with your thoughts on Wheeler/Stuart, but I think it's kind of lost on people that (assuming Savard returns before Sturm) these are exactly the players that are on the block if we are to keep Ryder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
Now, here's the big concern. Say Boston trade Ryder and/or Wheeler to make room for Sturm and Savard's return. In return Boston got low draft picks and maybe a minor league player or two. Freeing cap space, right? Now, Savard plays several games and decides to shut it down for another month or so because of fatigue or doesn't feel right after playing those games. Back on LTIR. Sturm, on the other hand, is slowly getting time on the ice, but is slow and contributing nothing to the team for 15-20 games (remember, he needs to get used to it). What then? Boston have traded Ryder and/or Wheeler for ..... nothing really. They still have the same issues, which are worse: Savard came back but after several games sees that he needs more time, Sturm is nothing close to being the Sturm we all know. The Bruins team is worse off, and has to rely on one line for offensive numbers.
Mentioning Wheeler in this paragraph is incorrect. There is no scenario in which the Bruins would have to trade both Ryder and Wheeler. If they trade Ryder, then Wheeler (for that matter, everyone other than Paille) is completely safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entertainment Factor View Post
Of course that is just an assumption, but an assumption that is very close to reality. Of course, I know that the Bruins cannot have Sturm and Savard back without clearing at least 4-5 million in cap. But healthy issues of Sturm and Savard are the bigger concerns here. Just because they're coming back in a month or two doesn't mean they'll be healthy enough to play the rest of the season. I really do believe that Sturm is finished. I'm not saying he won't play another game in his career, but without his speed (more problems on the knees) he'll be another Jonathan Cheechoo minus the 50+ goals in a season. Plus, Sturm isn't 23 years old anymore. He's 32 with two major surgeries on the same knee within the last 1-2 years.
The thing I that bothers me in all of this is that people are against trading Ryder because they feel it would be too much of a disruption to the roster. However, they completely over look the fact that in keeping Ryder they will have to disrupt the roster even more by trading multiple guys like Wheeler, Stuart, and Hunwick

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11-18-2010, 01:43 PM
  #40
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There's no option for keep him.

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11-18-2010, 01:56 PM
  #41
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There's no option for keep him.


...which doesn't make this a valid poll....

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11-18-2010, 02:23 PM
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...which doesn't make this a valid poll....
The title is " best option for ryder" and I'd vote keep him

Send sturm to the baby b's, keep savard on ltir working on his stuff until his cap hit overage matches how much pailles cap hit will clear once he's gone, don't care how.

Done, solid team, solid callups, ready for a run

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11-18-2010, 02:30 PM
  #43
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Given Ryder's salary it would be difficult to trade him. He has been playing well as of late, but not enough to justify his salary to another organization. No one will want to take on salary without giving some back. Boston can't go that route.
I disagree with that, I think they can. All it takes, is a player coming back that will just get dumped to waivers and the AHL.

For example, trade Ryder to Columbus for Chris Clark and a pick. Waive Clark. Bruins get a pick, and cap compliant. Columbus gets an upgrade on Clark, for a pro-rated $1.4 million net. JJ pays less for the dumped salary than if he dumped Ryder to Providence (and he clears).

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11-18-2010, 02:33 PM
  #44
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Trade him away now and trade back for him at the trade deadline... the best of both worlds right there.

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Old
11-18-2010, 03:22 PM
  #45
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Where this option:

"Doesn't matter since one of our other guys is going to get hurt soon and we'll have that room"

I mean let's remember which team we cheer for here. We always get people hurt. We can't actually stay healthy, it's against our code.

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11-18-2010, 03:44 PM
  #46
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You're missing the biggest problem in trading/sending down Sturm. To do so he has to pass through the active roster. If Savard returns before Sturm, this means that the Bruins would have to temporarily clear about 3.5M in cap space.

Also, Sturm has an NTC. He can be waived and sent to the AHL without his permission.



If we move Ryder it's pretty simple. Ryder and Paille are enough to make the team cap compliant. If we decide to keep Ryder and waiver Sturm, it would likely necessitate us removing Paille, plus two of Hunwick, Ference, Stuart and Wheeler. It would likely also involve us exposing McQuaid to waivers.



I agree with your thoughts on Wheeler/Stuart, but I think it's kind of lost on people that (assuming Savard returns before Sturm) these are exactly the players that are on the block if we are to keep Ryder.



Mentioning Wheeler in this paragraph is incorrect. There is no scenario in which the Bruins would have to trade both Ryder and Wheeler. If they trade Ryder, then Wheeler (for that matter, everyone other than Paille) is completely safe.



The thing I that bothers me in all of this is that people are against trading Ryder because they feel it would be too much of a disruption to the roster. However, they completely over look the fact that in keeping Ryder they will have to disrupt the roster even more by trading multiple guys like Wheeler, Stuart, and Hunwick
Either way, whatever move PC makes will generate criticism from us fans and/or the media. It's natural and obvious. Then again, this is partially, if not all, PC's fault. I like Ryder. I think and the majority of the bruins players struggled last year for whatever reason, let it be injuries, off ice issues, etc. Everyone struggled. Even Lucic. Nonetheless, Ryder was a scapegoat last year, and so was Wideman. But let the Wideman discussion take place under his thread. ha!

I know that it comes down to the young players (Wheeler, Stuart, Hunwick, etc) vs. players such as Ryder, Ference, etc to be dealt or moved to the minors. This whole situation is a Catch-22. You trade Ryder, and by playoff time people will criticize that his game at that time is what is missing. You trade Wheeler, and people will say the Bruins are giving away their future.

Sure, I would trade Ryder before Wheeler but the bigger question is the health of both Sturm and Savard. The Bruins can trade Ryder for close to nothing (we all know the return won't be good), but it won't do anything positive for the team if Sturm struggles (and he will big time for the majority of the season - i.e speed won't be the same, and he will have to get used to the speed of the game) and Savard is on-and-off about ready to go and not ready to go. In other words, the Bruins will be taking a risk whichever way they play it. Hopefully in the end, it turns out good for the team.

I just feel uncomfortable sending someone like Ryder, who has been playing pretty darn well, to the AHL because despite it being "cap" related issues, it also sends a bad message to every other player. It's like the organization is not taking responsible for their error (if you want to call it an error).

Also, we don't know if Wheeler even wants to play in Boston beyond this season. Who's going to be scoring if Ryder is dealt? Horton can't do it on his own. Neither can Lucic. Sturm won't be potting goals left and right.

What I am trying to say is this: it's going to be a very tough decision for PC - a risk that may benefit the team or hurt it. Of course, this depends who they trade. Like I said, I really doubt Sturm will do well in the games he plays this year. Two surgeries on the same knee in two years will damage a guys speed. And Sturm's asset is his speed. It will take him more than 15-20 games to start getting adjusted to the game. And that's just the "start."

What happens if Sturm is done for the season after a week or two from coming back? What if Savard decides, after a week or two, that it is best for him to take the year off and recuperate? Meanwhile, Ryder or Wheeler are playing elsewhere? Tough, tough decisions.

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11-18-2010, 04:44 PM
  #47
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I have a question. Who owns the Providence Bruins? To me, this has a major bearing on "what" to do with certain players, AHL/trade. If JJ owns them he also gets the money when they get in the playoffs so he shouldn't mind paying Sturm's money IF he gets sent down.

Just a little stuff in the fan.

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11-18-2010, 04:48 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
Where this option:

"Doesn't matter since one of our other guys is going to get hurt soon and we'll have that room"

I mean let's remember which team we cheer for here. We always get people hurt. We can't actually stay healthy, it's against our code.
Well this is my point and why I'm asking what if Horton or whoever goes down. Obv I don't want this to happen, I'm just asking how it works.

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:57 PM
  #49
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Question I ask:
In the playoffs, who would you rather have on the ice with the game tied and 5 minutes left in the game? For me, Ryder can be clutch, scoring goals in the most critical times. He seems to thrive on that. I don't know that I have the same feeling about Sturm (actually quite the opposite due to his lack of sturdiness). So yeah, my vote is not included in the poll.
And I do recall hearing Chia say that if they have to, they will bury contracts to get under the cap. I wouldn't be surprised if they exercised that option with Sturm.

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11-18-2010, 05:09 PM
  #50
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I know a ton of folks would rather deal Sturm. However, bottom line is we have to fit Sturm and Savard on the payroll before we can deal either Sturm or Savard for that matter.

Once we have clearance from doctors whom have built a sizable practice in sports medicine on their word being good that they can play our options become limited. A short stint in Providence for conditioning (no waivers) is about all that the Bruins can use to delay.

Smart owners are asking for Looch to take on Ryder, they know we have 0 leverage.

Be prepared to take it rectally quite hard in the next month.

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