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Old
11-18-2010, 03:19 PM
  #26
trenton1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeIsAStud View Post
It better be sutter. I love Blum, and might give up Colborne for him, but NO way on earth would I give up the Toronto pick for him. franson is off to a hot start, but no way I give up both for him. Ellis, personally I wouldn't give up Colborne for him
Yeah, for the TO pick I agree it would need to be Suter.

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Originally Posted by TwineTickler View Post
Not enough. Sort of soft for a big kid, doesn't have plus skating, but his overall game and whatnot is pretty solid. He'd definitely help but he doesn't have the exact skillset this team needs IMO. In a trade with Nashville I'd tried to get Roussel (and Colin Wilson, ha).

As far as this trade proposal. I'd do it in heart beat if it was our #1... but be wary if it was Toronto's.
Yeah, Franson seems more of a PP specialist with a good shot. The B's need a guy with speed who can lug it at ES.

Blum, Ellis, Franson and Weber are all RH shot. One of them will likely play the off side and one will probably get moved eventually. I'd like for PC to get proactive here.

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11-18-2010, 03:27 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TwineTickler View Post
Not enough
I like him, but not for that deal obviously

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Originally Posted by trenton1 View Post
Yeah, Franson seems more of a PP specialist with a good shot. The B's need a guy with speed who can lug it at ES.
Actually, we need Chara to play less minutes. Chara is currently averaging close to 2 minutes a night more than everyone else on the PP, 27 seconds more on the PK and 34 seconds more at ES.

Getting a guy who can take some PP minutes off of Chara so he can play around 24-25 minutes a night would make Chara better.

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Old
11-18-2010, 03:30 PM
  #28
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they way the leafs look I think that pick is to much to give up right now. I would do the B's 1st in the deal in place. Don't know if they would accept but I love that pick right now.

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Old
11-18-2010, 03:40 PM
  #29
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How can people say he hasn't lived up to expectations? Because he wasn't Drew Doughty? He is still only 20 years old. I think he would be perfect for the Bruins. This kid has some talent, I will leave it at that.

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11-18-2010, 03:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LucicIsABeast View Post
How can people say he hasn't lived up to expectations? Because he wasn't Drew Doughty? He is still only 20 years old. I think he would be perfect for the Bruins. This kid has some talent, I will leave it at that.
He does have talent, but no way in hell if I'm PC am I trading away that TOR pick. I would be fine if it was Colborne and our first pick but not TOR's.

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11-18-2010, 03:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by heelsox View Post
From the trade board for those who don't check it, but an interesting concept came up over there and wanted to see how you guys felt about it.

Boston gets Zach Bogosian
Atlanta gets Colborne + Torontos 1st.

Bogo's still on his ELC, which I'm not sure how that effect the Bonus Cushion, would his cap hit for us be 3.375 for that he achieved in Atlanta during the previous season, or would it be a clean slate for us at the 875k? If the 875 is taken and his bonus's go towards our cushion, very little salary would have to be adjusted than already needs to be.
His cap hit would be 875k BUT we are almost at the bonus deferment limit. This means we'd end up with about 2M in bonuses that couldn't be cushioned. Thus his effect on our cap could be closer to 3M.

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Originally Posted by heelsox View Post
But either way, his contract is up at the end of the year, we'd have the money freed up by then to resign him.

Interesting thought though for a former 3rd pick behind Mr. Stamkos and Mr Doughty, and a guy that some suggested be taken over Doughty.
I think Bogo will likely develop into a 1st pairing guy, but I'm not willing to suffer through his growing pains.

As well, if a team in the situation Atlanta is in is willing to part with their former #3 overall, future franchise defenseman, I'd be extremely suspicious.

No matter how I slice it, Bogo is not the guy for our team IMO. If he does get traded, he should have significantly more value to teams that can afford to be more patient, the Ducks or Canes for example.

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Old
11-18-2010, 03:54 PM
  #32
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Not the TO #1, no.

Colborne and our first pick okay.

Even that might be over-payment, and I prolly would say no if that were our only 2011 #1. But since we'd still have TO's pick, I'd say yes.

All of these picks and assets need to be used one way or another, and we've got a good base of young talent in the pipeline.

Having Bogo to go along with Chara, Seids, etc. with Alexandrov, Bart, and more down on the farm, we'd look good on the back end, and we've got enough young guns up front that losing Colborne would be worth it, IMO.

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:04 PM
  #33
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I wouldn't give up either of those pieces in a deal for Bogosian. Obviously Bogosian has talent, but I get nervous about players who decline instead of progress since entering the league.

Not to mention:

1. Colborne's rate of progress is incredible, and I think he projects as a Jordan Staal type player with more offensive flair (a bit less defense and sandpaper).

2. The Toronto pick has a great chance of being a star.

I would give:

Wheeler
Knight
Bos 1st 2011
Ference

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:16 PM
  #34
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I dont think Atlanta trades him and even if they do, i dont think Chiarelli should overpay like that.
If you want to overpay, go get something more...established.

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11-18-2010, 04:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by heelsox View Post
That's the thing...he has all that but also has great speed out of the back end, possesses the puck very well and can move the puck nicely. Very smooth player.
Absolutely. But he's not worth the package you floated IMO, for all the reasons others have stated.

Same as with last season, unless I am absolutely bowled over by what a team is offering for that TO pick, I'm keeping it. It has the potential to set us up as a dynasty for the next 10 years.

Bogosian is a great young player, but I don't see him as a cornerstone of a contender, and that's what I want from that pick, either by ways of someone we draft, or someone we acquire for it.

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11-18-2010, 04:27 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BoyntBergie View Post
Absolutely. But he's not worth the package you floated IMO, for all the reasons others have stated.

Same as with last season, unless I am absolutely bowled over by what a team is offering for that TO pick, I'm keeping it. It has the potential to set us up as a dynasty for the next 10 years.

Bogosian is a great young player, but I don't see him as a cornerstone of a contender, and that's what I want from that pick, either by ways of someone we draft, or someone we acquire for it.
Any ideas on whom to target, BB? As I said, I would love to pry something from NSH.

Hanging on to the TO pick will be smart, but I think they should at least be offering their own in a package to upgrade the blueline now and for the future.

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsPortugal View Post
I dont think Atlanta trades him and even if they do, i dont think Chiarelli should overpay like that.
If you want to overpay, go get something more...established.
Exactly. You don't overpay for 'potential'

BOS 1st
Colborne

like what others have mentioned, Is what I'd do. Does it get it done? Probably not. Depends on if they value Colborne. But we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to prospects so I'm willing to deal from that pool if it gets us back what we need, which is a PMD or potential PMD

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:41 PM
  #38
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Some of you posters have no grip whatsoever on trade value. I do Colbourne and Tor 1st for Bogosian everyday of the week. You guys should try watching a player and learning about him via NHL scouts. Instead of making assumptions and following what the last poster said. Bogosian by many scouts was predicted to be better than doughty, ill take that potential over the potential of the Toronto pick.

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
Some of you posters have no grip whatsoever on trade value. I do Colbourne and Tor 1st for Bogosian everyday of the week. You guys should try watching a player and learning about him via NHL scouts. Instead of making assumptions and following what the last poster said. Bogosian by many scouts was predicted to be better than doughty, ill take that potential over the potential of the Toronto pick.
Cept Colborne is 6 foot friggin 5, comes in at close to 215 lbs as a 20 year old, and has 11 points in his first 15 games in the AHL. He has all the tools to be ridiculous in the league. You want to add that AND a lotto pick? Come on...

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Old
11-18-2010, 04:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
Some of you posters have no grip whatsoever on trade value. I do Colbourne and Tor 1st for Bogosian everyday of the week. You guys should try watching a player and learning about him via NHL scouts. Instead of making assumptions and following what the last poster said. Bogosian by many scouts was predicted to be better than doughty, ill take that potential over the potential of the Toronto pick.
How about trading for something real instead of "potencial". And im not saying he isnt good or that he cant be the next Doughty, but i dont see him as the missing piece, only my opinion of course.

BTW, Bogosian is playing so well that the fans want to put him on the wing.

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11-18-2010, 04:55 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
Some of you posters have no grip whatsoever on trade value. I do Colbourne and Tor 1st for Bogosian everyday of the week. You guys should try watching a player and learning about him via NHL scouts. Instead of making assumptions and following what the last poster said. Bogosian by many scouts was predicted to be better than doughty, ill take that potential over the potential of the Toronto pick.
Doughty was a Norris finalist and Bogosian looks like he is years away in development to be one. For the time being those scouts were wrong. Not saying he can't be a number one in the future, that's foolish, but his current level of play and what he brings doesn't address Boston's biggest need on the back end. It would be wiser to use those assets for a player who maybe more proven and better now, but with less potential.

Also I agree with whomever said if Atlanta is willing to trade him, you have to question why a defenseman like that is getting traded.

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11-18-2010, 04:56 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BruinsPortugal View Post
How about trading for something real instead of "potencial".

BTW, Bogosian is playing so well that the fans want to put him on the wing.
Not to mention Bogosian has maxed out at 23 points in a year (which isn't exactly mind boggling), and has a combined -28 going back to next year. At some point he can actually live up to some of the hype to.

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11-18-2010, 04:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
Some of you posters have no grip whatsoever on trade value. I do Colbourne and Tor 1st for Bogosian everyday of the week. You guys should try watching a player and learning about him via NHL scouts. Instead of making assumptions and following what the last poster said. Bogosian by many scouts was predicted to be better than doughty, ill take that potential over the potential of the Toronto pick.
Exactly.
Chiarelli would jump on this offer (Colborne + TOR 1st).

This team is just a young uprising star D-men away from building a dynasty, and Bogosian is just that. He is 20 and is going to be an awesome player in a near future, he have all the tools.

The pick is still just a pick, and Burke is not going to sit doing nothing and watch his team fall again. He have cap space and will make a move sooner or later. I think the pick is going to be between 6 and 10 but I will not be surprise at all if it's more in the 12-15 range. We're only 20 games in.

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11-18-2010, 04:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsPortugal View Post
How about trading for something real instead of "potencial". And im not saying he isnt good or that he cant be the next Doughty, but i dont see him as the missing piece, only my opinion of course.

BTW, Bogosian is playing so well that the fans want to put him on the wing.
We are trading two potentials for 1 good dman with potential to be great. Torontos 1st could be anything and Colbourne could be Wheeler. Not to mention Bogo has been playing on Atlanta since his career started. Not necessarily the best track record on developing Dman. Everyone used Florida as a reason Horton would do better here, is it wrong to say Atlanta is holding back Bogosians potential?

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11-18-2010, 05:01 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
Cept Colborne is 6 foot friggin 5, comes in at close to 215 lbs as a 20 year old, and has 11 points in his first 15 games in the AHL. He has all the tools to be ridiculous in the league. You want to add that AND a lotto pick? Come on...
Well we can't exactly trade crap to get gold. We are not hard up on forwards or centers in the system which makes Colborne a good chip to put into play.

I'd have to put trust in the scouts to evaluate if Bogosian is worth that trade off. If he pans out to be a solid defensman that will help move the puck and get our transition game going, then it's worth it. If he turns out to be more like a Matt Hunwick then yeah.. I don't want to trade Colborne.

But similar to Seguin, Colborne doesn't have to play center, he's expressed interest in the wing and next year we may need him when Sturm and Ryder are gone so it's tough.

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11-18-2010, 05:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
Well we can't exactly trade crap to get gold. We are not hard up on forwards or centers in the system which makes Colborne a good chip to put into play.

I'd have to put trust in the scouts to evaluate if Bogosian is worth that trade off. If he pans out to be a solid defensman that will help move the puck and get our transition game going, then it's worth it. If he turns out to be more like a Matt Hunwick then yeah.. I don't want to trade Colborne.

But similar to Seguin, Colborne doesn't have to play center, he's expressed interest in the wing and next year we may need him when Sturm and Ryder are gone so it's tough.
Bogosian is already a better defensive defensemen than Hunwick by far. And Bogos offensive game, which is the one thing holding him back from being on Doughtys level, is also superior to Hunwicks. You can point to the stats and say Hunwick has a better career high than Bogo, but then again Bogo has never played on a team as good as the Bruins.

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Old
11-18-2010, 05:13 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzothe7thDman View Post
We are trading two potentials for 1 good dman with potential to be great. Torontos 1st could be anything and Colbourne could be Wheeler. Not to mention Bogo has been playing on Atlanta since his career started. Not necessarily the best track record on developing Dman. Everyone used Florida as a reason Horton would do better here, is it wrong to say Atlanta is holding back Bogosians potential?
The little difference is that Horton was already playing well in Florida even without the motivation.

Bogosian is simply not living up to what everyone supposed he would be, obviously he can still turn into a great dman, but right now i doubt he is what the Bruins are missing.

But hey its my opinion, I'm not sold on him but i dont know what Chia, Claude or Cam feel.

Some more interesting stats (and thats all they are: stats):

Last season Wideman was a -14 and remember the crap he took from the fans? Hunwick another whipping boy was -16. Bogosian was a -18! This season: -10.

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Old
11-18-2010, 05:16 PM
  #48
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I'd like ZB, but wouldn't trade the Tor 1st in a deal for him. I'd do Colborne + Bos 1st though, possibly throw in a 2nd also.

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11-18-2010, 05:18 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Savynquick View Post
Not to mention Bogosian has maxed out at 23 points in a year (which isn't exactly mind boggling), and has a combined -28 going back to next year. At some point he can actually live up to some of the hype to.
He's only had ONE full season!

I don't know. I don't... I wouldn't have a problem with the proposed trade in the slightest. Bogosian may not be Drew Doughty (not many are - and I believe it was Zach's size advantage more than anything that had him ranked such), but he would definitely be part of this team's core and a BIG step forward in establishing a potential dynasty in Boston.

With Rask in net. Chara and Bogosian on the blueline. And Seguin, Bergeron, Lucic and Krejci on forward (not to mention the potential of Horton and Savard), this team would have top-end talent in every position and every skill-set.

It's overpayment for Bogosian. But overpayment is what it would take to get him. And I would be happier than a clam in heat if it happened.

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11-18-2010, 05:19 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinsPortugal View Post
The little difference is that Horton was already playing well in Florida even without the motivation.

Bogosian is simply not living up to what everyone supposed he would be, obviously he can still turn into a great dman, but right now i doubt he is what the Bruins are missing.

But hey its my opinion, I'm not sold on him but i dont know what Chia, Claude or Cam feel.

Some more interesting stats (and thats all they are: stats):

Last season Wideman was a -14 and remember the crap he took from the fans? Hunwick another whipping boy was -16. Bogosian was a -18! This season: -10.
At the ripe old age of 20 years old, hes not living up to what hes supposed to be!?!? Its an accomplishment for an NHL defensemen to even be playing in the NHL at the age of 20. Most defensemen usually dont start hitting their stride until they are 25-27 Ill ignore the +/- argument considering he is playing on Atlanta. And his D partners are all trash except for Tobias.

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