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Old
11-19-2010, 12:08 PM
  #101
Kirk- NEHJ
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Not advocating a trade nor do I have any information to indicate one is coming, but I would just say that if the Bruins were going to make a deal for Bogosian, now is the time to do it. It involves risk and trusting that he will come out of the doldrums and be the guy they loved in 2008 (and they loved him enough to make a serious push to move up into the top-three to try and land him, a move that was re-buffed, but not before being strongly considered I'm told). But, the time to make a trade for someone like Bogosian is now because the doubts about him are there. If you wait until he gets it together, then he becomes untouchable. The big question then becomes, will he get it together? With the size, talent and intelligence he has, I believe the answer is yes.

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11-19-2010, 12:10 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by neelyforpresident View Post
I agree for the most part. Bogosian has the tools to be a special player in this league and would absolutely include the Toronto pick in the deal. I don't understand all the Murphy talk for two reasons:
1. It is not even a guarantee Toronto's pick is top 10. Way to early to pencil in Murphy into our prospect pool.
2. Is Murphy projected to be a better player than Bogosian? From what I've read/seen Bogosian looks to have the higher ceiling. And he is only 20.
I wouldn't pencil in Murphy (or any other prospect) into the lineup already, hence why I suggest making a stab at it come draft day when more is known about the pick. Realistically, it could be anywhere from #1 to #15 overall.

As for Murphy, I'm a firm believer that defensemen's ceilings are much harder to gauge at a young age. I think it's more then possible to say "he has the tools to be great" or even point out that they will most likely eventually have an impact in the NHL. Prediciting the great ones imo is an exercise in futility. That said, Murphy has quite the skillset already, and it just so happens a skill set that this team has sorely lacked for the past decade. I think in this instance its more about his niche then it is projected ceiling.

I don't know if Bogo will have a great impact in Boston's ability to compete this season, so waiting until the offseason isn't detrimental imo. If that pick ends up top 3 again, or if Boston can even combine the two 1sts next season to move up then I'd sooner see them make the pick and add another high end young guy to the lineup. If there's no one you like on the board at the Toronto pick, then make the run for Bogo (and I'd probably go higher then Colborne + Tor 1st at that point).

Who knows, come next season if their picks are #6 and #20-30, they may be able to combine those and move up the board a couple of spots. Hell, throw in a couple of decent prospects and make a run at #1 overall. It's not like Boston doesn't have more then enough assets to do so.

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11-19-2010, 12:11 PM
  #103
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Another unrealistic thought as to a guy I would love to add:
John Carlson

I'd part with our first + for him in a heartbeat.

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11-19-2010, 12:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by BoyntBergie View Post
Another unrealistic thought as to a guy I would love to add:
John Carlson

I'd part with our first + for him in a heartbeat.
Being here in Washington, I can tell you-- that ain't happening.

They love him in D.C. and see him as THE future on the blue line. So far, he's done nothing to diminish that view.

Real nice kid, too.

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11-19-2010, 12:31 PM
  #105
BoyntBergie
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Being here in Washington, I can tell you-- that ain't happening.

They love him in D.C. and see him as THE future on the blue line. So far, he's done nothing to diminish that view.

Real nice kid, too.
Yeah, about what I figured, and based on what I've seen of him, I don't blame them a bit. He's a stud.

I remember seeing him in significant minutes for the first time in last seasons POs and he was clearly a thoroughbred in the making.

That's why I think we're better off just holding the picks, especially the TO one. There's no one that I see who we could pry away with it that would provide the immediate impact to really put us over the top.

Maybe a situation will present itself later in the season, closer to the deadline. But I'd still be extremely hesitant.

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11-19-2010, 02:22 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Not advocating a trade nor do I have any information to indicate one is coming, but I would just say that if the Bruins were going to make a deal for Bogosian, now is the time to do it. It involves risk and trusting that he will come out of the doldrums and be the guy they loved in 2008 (and they loved him enough to make a serious push to move up into the top-three to try and land him, a move that was re-buffed, but not before being strongly considered I'm told). But, the time to make a trade for someone like Bogosian is now because the doubts about him are there. If you wait until he gets it together, then he becomes untouchable. The big question then becomes, will he get it together? With the size, talent and intelligence he has, I believe the answer is yes.
What then (hypothetically of course) would be a fair trade for Bogosian then Kirk ?
I'd put something like our 2011 1st rounder , Stuart ,Colbourne on the table .

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11-19-2010, 02:27 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by biggles8 View Post
What then (hypothetically of course) would be a fair trade for Bogosian then Kirk ?
I'd put something like our 2011 1st rounder , Stuart ,Colbourne on the table .
Not going to get into that.

I'll leave that for other would-be GMs to speculate.

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11-19-2010, 02:39 PM
  #108
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Fair enough .
And btw good piece on Spooner landing in Kingston. Sounds like he's really going to benefit from that environment and have some fun playing again.

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11-19-2010, 03:10 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by biggles8 View Post
Fair enough .
And btw good piece on Spooner landing in Kingston. Sounds like he's really going to benefit from that environment and have some fun playing again.
Thanks. No more excuses-- if he doesn't get it going there, that's on him. I think Spooner will be fine, though. His early returns have been quite good.

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11-19-2010, 05:51 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
I'm going to give this a shot, even though I will admit right off the bat that my man crush on Zack Bogosian probably leaves me biased.

I'd do the trade Bill Ladd ( Playmaker ) originally posted: Wheeler/Toronto 1st for Bogosian.

Most NHL defensemen prospects take some time to develop. I think it's all but a certainty that the Bruins will select a defensemen if the Toronto pick is top three, so we'd be expediting the progress by 2-3 years.

Make no mistake about it: Zack Bogosian is still a stud in this league. He's big and plays aggressive. On top of that, he's mobile, a hell of a skater and has a cannon of a shot ( RH ). He's got the complete package...PMD, stout physical defender, booming shot at the point with PP quarterbacking abilities, etc etc. He just needs time and proper coaching to put it all together.

Chara -- Bogosian
Seidenburg -- Boychuk
Ference -- Stuart

That defense IMO is capable of winning a SC.

This is exactly the type of young defenseman I want the Bruins to find, whether it's Bogosian or another player who has the complete package.

Say no to guys like Kaberle who are older and don't play an all around game.

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11-19-2010, 05:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
This is exactly the type of young defenseman I want the Bruins to find, whether it's Bogosian or another player who has the complete package.

Say no to guys like Kaberle who are older and don't play an all around game.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I would offer sheet Bogosian if I couldn't get Atlanta to trade for him.

4 years at 4 million / year or as high as 4.5 if that will make them walk away and take the 1st and 3rd in 2012. He is that good and is exactly what can be built upon in the back end.

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11-19-2010, 08:57 PM
  #112
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Bogosian is a stud. (Not counting this year) he has had a higher PPG than Doughty in 2 of the last 3 years. I would overpay like crazy to get him.

ps: I pushed hard for Jack Johnson a few years ago and heard the whole "he isn't established" deal... he's had a pretty nice breakout since. Bogo is a big breakout candidate, but it won't happen with Enstrom and Buffy getting all the PP time.


Oh, and Buffy was another guy I said the B's should push hard for too. I'd hire myself.

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11-19-2010, 09:41 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Not advocating a trade nor do I have any information to indicate one is coming, but I would just say that if the Bruins were going to make a deal for Bogosian, now is the time to do it. It involves risk and trusting that he will come out of the doldrums and be the guy they loved in 2008 (and they loved him enough to make a serious push to move up into the top-three to try and land him, a move that was re-buffed, but not before being strongly considered I'm told). But, the time to make a trade for someone like Bogosian is now because the doubts about him are there. If you wait until he gets it together, then he becomes untouchable. The big question then becomes, will he get it together? With the size, talent and intelligence he has, I believe the answer is yes.
and this regime has shown a tendency to go out and acquire guys that they liked even years earlier. i'm with bill and colt on this one - get this guy b/c he's gonna be a stud and has bruin written all over him.

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11-19-2010, 10:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Are you sure you want to be citing the 300 fans of the team as gospel on a player?
I assume you're capable of weighing the value of information based on its source.

But why should you dismiss their opinions out of hand? Just because there are fewer Thrasher fans and the average fan is less knowledgeable, doesn't mean that their collective opinions are worthless.

Thrasher fans aren't denying that Bogosian has plenty of potential; they're saying he's been error prone this season.


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11-19-2010, 10:41 PM
  #115
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ps: I pushed hard for Jack Johnson a few years ago and heard the whole "he isn't established" deal... he's had a pretty nice breakout since. Bogo is a big breakout candidate, but it won't happen with Enstrom and Buffy getting all the PP time.

I agree with you, for elite talents you need to get them a year EARLY not AFTER they develop cause as you say, they are then untouchable.

Jack Johnson good example. So is Nathan Horton, I like Wideman but do you really think if horton was playing like this in FLA he would be traded for a mid 1st and Dennis Wideman? Of course not.

I have seen Bogo but not enough to pretend to be expert, if he is the plus plus skater that people say - to go with all his other skills - I go get him.

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11-20-2010, 01:38 AM
  #116
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All this talk about getting Bogosian to Boston is interesting, but is there any substance to this speculation?

Or is this a typical HF trade idea thrown out by a poster trying to create discussion?

Anybody know what's going on?

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11-20-2010, 01:53 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
All this talk about getting Bogosian to Boston is interesting, but is there any substance to this speculation?

Or is this a typical HF trade idea thrown out by a poster trying to create discussion?

Anybody know what's going on?
This started as an idea Bill Ladd posted on the Trade board.

I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe Bogosian to Boston is anything more than one poster's idea.

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11-20-2010, 01:56 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
All this talk about getting Bogosian to Boston is interesting, but is there any substance to this speculation?

Or is this a typical HF trade idea thrown out by a poster trying to create discussion?

Anybody know what's going on?
sadly, it was just a trade proposal on the trade rumors board.

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11-20-2010, 11:15 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ACHISLING View Post
Our 1st and I do that deal.
Our first and Atlanta hang up. Would you trade Seguin for a mid 1st and a late 1st? Bogosian was a top 5 pick. You don't get that for Colborne and #29.

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11-20-2010, 11:18 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Not advocating a trade nor do I have any information to indicate one is coming, but I would just say that if the Bruins were going to make a deal for Bogosian, now is the time to do it. It involves risk and trusting that he will come out of the doldrums and be the guy they loved in 2008 (and they loved him enough to make a serious push to move up into the top-three to try and land him, a move that was re-buffed, but not before being strongly considered I'm told). But, the time to make a trade for someone like Bogosian is now because the doubts about him are there. If you wait until he gets it together, then he becomes untouchable. The big question then becomes, will he get it together? With the size, talent and intelligence he has, I believe the answer is yes.
There isn't a skill a dman needs that this kid doesn't have. Doesn't mean he'll put it all together, but even if he only puts it partly together you may have an "in his prime" Chelios.

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11-20-2010, 11:27 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
There isn't a skill a dman needs that this kid doesn't have. Doesn't mean he'll put it all together, but even if he only puts it partly together you may have an "in his prime" Chelios.
Bruins weren't the only ones who loved Bogosian and didn't get him in '08 either. If he were in fact, available or at least the GM listening to offers for him, I would think that Rick Dudley's phone would be lighting up constantly right now.

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11-20-2010, 12:22 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Alan Ryan View Post
All this talk about getting Bogosian to Boston is interesting, but is there any substance to this speculation?

Or is this a typical HF trade idea thrown out by a poster trying to create discussion?

Anybody know what's going on?
Just some fun food for thought.

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11-20-2010, 03:23 PM
  #123
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Our first and Atlanta hang up. Would you trade Seguin for a mid 1st and a late 1st? Bogosian was a top 5 pick. You don't get that for Colborne and #29.
I'd use the TOR 1st to lure Atlanta at least into discussions. You can bet my initial offer isn't going to be TOR 1st and Colborne. If that was the eventual asking price, I'd (meaning the front office) probably have some sleepless nights making that decision. In the end, if my scouts thought that Bogosian was going to come reasonably close to putting it together, I do that deal. Toronto is bad, but they might not be awful enough for that pick to be top 3 again, and Bogosian is a developed top 3 pick, who is ready to contribute while the Bruins Stanley Cup window is open. If you could manage say TOR 1st, Knight, and Hunwick (just to use an example of something in the middle of the two Colborne options), you could think of the Kessel trade as Kessel and Hunwick for Seguin and Bogosian. That's an epic win right there. If Bogosian becomes a franchise D, you would have harvested a franchise center, defenseman, and goaltender from a division rival.

To further analyze the TOR 1st, at this point, we have no idea where it will end up, I don't think they'll be Devils, Oilers, Islanders bad and they won't be playoff good. Figuring that puts them behind 16 playoff teams, and probably minimum 3 West conference teams, the range is 4-11, they have cap space to improve, and no reason to tank. At that point, you'd have to hope the guy you picked up would develop into...Bogosian. Except instead, you already have him, and you have him when you need him (during Chara, Bergeron, Krejci, Lucic, Rask, Horton's prime). It also allows you more of a window to let guys like Button, Alexandrov and Cross develop. Because not one of them would have to be a top 4 guy in the next 2-4 years with Chara, Bogosian, Boychuk, and Seidenberg on board.

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11-20-2010, 03:41 PM
  #124
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I wouldn't pencil in Murphy (or any other prospect) into the lineup already, hence why I suggest making a stab at it come draft day when more is known about the pick. Realistically, it could be anywhere from #1 to #15 overall.

As for Murphy, I'm a firm believer that defensemen's ceilings are much harder to gauge at a young age. I think it's more then possible to say "he has the tools to be great" or even point out that they will most likely eventually have an impact in the NHL. Prediciting the great ones imo is an exercise in futility. That said, Murphy has quite the skillset already, and it just so happens a skill set that this team has sorely lacked for the past decade. I think in this instance its more about his niche then it is projected ceiling.

I don't know if Bogo will have a great impact in Boston's ability to compete this season, so waiting until the offseason isn't detrimental imo. If that pick ends up top 3 again, or if Boston can even combine the two 1sts next season to move up then I'd sooner see them make the pick and add another high end young guy to the lineup. If there's no one you like on the board at the Toronto pick, then make the run for Bogo (and I'd probably go higher then Colborne + Tor 1st at that point).

Who knows, come next season if their picks are #6 and #20-30, they may be able to combine those and move up the board a couple of spots. Hell, throw in a couple of decent prospects and make a run at #1 overall. It's not like Boston doesn't have more then enough assets to do so.
This is an interesting point you bring up and an important thing to consider if this trade is on the table. I think Bogosian is an upgrade over Hunwick and would contribute to Boston's blue line this season. So you are not only getting a potential stud on D, you are getting someone who I think would step in and make a contribution right away. And as I already mentioned, being only 20 with NHL experience under his belt makes him more valuable to me then a shot at Murphy.

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11-20-2010, 05:32 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ACHISLING View Post
Our 1st and I do that deal.
Word

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