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Old
12-05-2010, 01:15 AM
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Jaydepps
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OT: Case Study related to incidents in the NHL

I am having trouble thinking of a good incident to either use or make a case study for a presentation. The thing is we have to find an incident where a player was punished and explain the points of the case. Basically, we leave it up to the class to debate whether or not it was ethical or not. I'm just having trouble thinking of a good incident to use. Any suggestions? I could use the obvious Bertuzzi incident, but I feel that would overused and most people know about it. It'd be nice to have something big a Flyers player was involved, but I can't think of anything. I've only been watching since 1997 so would anyone with greater insight have any ideas? Thanks

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12-05-2010, 01:34 AM
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Anything related to a Steve Downie suspension would be fine.

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12-05-2010, 01:46 AM
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I interviewed Messier a while back about concussions/headshots and new technology being created to counter it. I wrote an article about it too.

I always wanted to write something to put in context of Simon Gagne's calling out the NHL about the issue after Kovalev (I think it was Kovalev IIRC) went after him and Gagne got a penalty for defending himself.

Perhaps use Mike Richards' hit on booth and the NHL backlash?

The quotes from Messier could come in handy, and I could pull them up. I know I have the article stored somewhere at the very least.

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12-05-2010, 01:48 AM
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Marty McSorley Donald Brashear Incident



On February 21, 2000, McSorley, playing for the Boston Bruins, swung his stick and hit Donald Brashear in the head with 3 seconds left in the game. Brashear fell backward and hit his head hard on the ice as a result of the stick's contact with his head and helmet. As a result of the fall and hard contact with the ice, Brashear lost consciousness and suffered a grade 3 concussion.

As a result of the stick incident, McSorley was charged with assault and suspended by the NHL for the remainder of the 1999–2000 season (including playoffs) missing 23 games. On October 4, 2000, a jury found McSorley guilty of assault with a weapon for his attack on Brashear. He was sentenced to 18 months probation. The trial was the first for an on-ice attack by an NHL player since 1988.

After his assault conviction his NHL suspension was extended to one full year (through February 21, 2001).[1] This suspension was the longest in NHL history, and McSorley would never play in another NHL game.

Briere Ovechkin Incident





Ovechkin received no suspension and a 100 dollar fine. And yes it is 100 dollars with 2 zeros

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12-05-2010, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I interviewed Messier a while back about concussions/headshots and new technology being created to counter it. I wrote an article about it too.

I always wanted to write something to put in context of Simon Gagne's calling out the NHL about the issue after Kovalev (I think it was Kovalev IIRC) went after him and Gagne got a penalty for defending himself.

Perhaps use Mike Richards' hit on booth and the NHL backlash?

The quotes from Messier could come in handy, and I could pull them up. I know I have the article stored somewhere at the very least.
This is what your referring to i believe its Volchenkov I believe he got a instigator and Unsportsmanlike for the visor rule.

This is also in the same year that the NHL was supposedly cracking down on boarding, and Gagne and missed a considerable amount of time due to concussions from similar plays. No suspension to Volchenkov


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12-05-2010, 02:25 AM
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Hmmm, I am thinking about the Gagne one, but I was also possibly thinking of the current thing with the emails from Colin Campbell, but I am not sure that would be doable. Thanks for the advice.

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12-05-2010, 02:38 AM
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Depending on the severity of the incident you are looking for, you could use Prongers recent "hand waive" and compare it to what Avery did.

Richards on Booth also.

Non Flyer related could be Cooke on Savard, the fan incident with Rick Rypien, or the penalty incurred by the Devils for the Kovalchuk signing.

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12-05-2010, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
This is what your referring to i believe its Volchenkov I believe he got a instigator and Unsportsmanlike for the visor rule.

This is also in the same year that the NHL was supposedly cracking down on boarding, and Gagne and missed a considerable amount of time due to concussions from similar plays. No suspension to Volchenkov

Actually, I just realized that I accidently combined the two incidents in my head.

This is the one I was talking about. Gagne didn't fight Kovalev though:



The article afterwards no longer exists, but there's a thread about Gagne's calling out of the NHL brass after nothing happened to Kovalev.

This was Holmgren's position:

Quote:
But when it came to Kovalev's hit on Gagne, a late shoulder hit to the head, Holmgren agreed with the league's position that it was not the kind of hit they were referring to.

Holmgren said he didn't see the hit until Sunday night, when the Flyers played Atlanta at the Wachovia Center.

"I talked to Colin Campbell just because when I talked to [coach John Stevens] after the game, he told me that Simon was upset," Holmgren said. "So I called [Campbell], we talked and they looked at it, and in their opinion, it was not a bad hit.

"I think he said it was a little bit late, but it was one of those things," Holmgren said. "And because of the player - it's Kovalev, he's not that kind of player - and in this case, he doesn't have time to react one way or the other.

"It was not an elbow," Holmgren said. "I have a lot of trouble calling that a head shot."
Here is Gagne's position after the incident per Timmy P.:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Tim-P...s-Team/2/17917

Quote:
At some point, some NHL player is going to get killed because of a head shot. Maybe then, corrective action will be taken.

“Talking to a lot of people here, talking to Homer [general manager Paul Holmgren] and the coaches, it has to come from the players," Gagne said after Sunday's game against Atlanta. "So, with what happened last night, I’m ready to be that guy.”

I suggested to Gagne that if a Flyer had hit Saku Koivu with a head shot ... it would "THE" story in Oh Canada and splashed all over TSN, HNIC, etc. until justice was served.

To which Gagne replied, that had a Flyer done it, he'd be looking at "a 10-game suspension."

For more on this subject and Gagne's anger, read my story on CSNPhilly.com:

Click Here
You can find the thread here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=573043


Eventually, as we all know, the league eventually took action against all hits to the head, elbow or shoulder, due to the Cooke incident as well as the Richards and Carter incidents along with a few others.

Gagne's warpath did absolutely nothing, but it took Savard, Booth, and others to get hurt before the NHL took his side. Gagne was basically ahead of his time.

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12-05-2010, 03:24 AM
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Might want to throw the Domi hit on Scott Niedermayer that got Domi suspended for the remainder of the 2001 playoffs.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...05-04-domi.htm

video:



the intial commentary is hilarious, and not in a good way.

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12-05-2010, 08:16 AM
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The Bertuzzi/ Moore incident might be a good one. Bertuzzi broke a bunch of bones in Moore's back and I don't think he ever made it back to hockey.



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12-05-2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
I am having trouble thinking of a good incident to either use or make a case study for a presentation. The thing is we have to find an incident where a player was punished and explain the points of the case. Basically, we leave it up to the class to debate whether or not it was ethical or not. I'm just having trouble thinking of a good incident to use. Any suggestions? I could use the obvious Bertuzzi incident, but I feel that would overused and most people know about it. It'd be nice to have something big a Flyers player was involved, but I can't think of anything. I've only been watching since 1997 so would anyone with greater insight have any ideas? Thanks
Back in either the 74-75 or 75-76 seasons the Toronto police had warrants out for several Flyers players because of on ice fights. Assault charges? Maybe Saleski & Schultz?

They turned them in after a little bit (before their next game in TOR) and the charges were dropped.

Sorry I don't have more specifics or if this isn't what you meant.

There's a Flyers book (Full Spectrum I believe) that talks about it.

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12-05-2010, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Might want to throw the Domi hit on Scott Niedermayer that got Domi suspended for the remainder of the 2001 playoffs.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...05-04-domi.htm

video:



the intial commentary is hilarious, and not in a good way.
Wow, I don't think I have ever seen that. What a ****** move.

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12-05-2010, 03:34 PM
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MiamiScreamingEagles
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What about Hextall-Chelios-Propp?

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12-05-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Back in either the 74-75 or 75-76 seasons the Toronto police had warrants out for several Flyers players because of on ice fights. Assault charges? Maybe Saleski & Schultz?

They turned them in after a little bit (before their next game in TOR) and the charges were dropped.

Sorry I don't have more specifics or if this isn't what you meant.

There's a Flyers book (Full Spectrum I believe) that talks about it.
This is my summary but if further research is warranted, highlights are included:

1976 -- Apr. 15 --In Game 3 at Toronto, the Leafs tied an NHL record with five PPGs en route to a 5-4 win in one of the most memorable games of the era. Toronto's head coach Red Kelly said "It was a miracle to beat that team." The Maple Leafs outshot the Flyers 52-28 and went 5-for-16 on the PP compared to the Flyers 1-for-3. Toronto scored two PPGs 29 seconds apart in the opening 3:54 of the second period to make it 4-1. After both goals, the Flyers were issued penalties. Philly scored twice in 13 seconds midway in the period to get within 4-3. Philly was whistled for 11 minors in the second period to the Leafs' one leading to a 27-5 shots advantage for Toronto. After two periods, Toronto led 5-3 and held a 44-16 shots advantage. Darryl Sittler had 10 shots on goal but just one assist. Bobby Clarke had a game-high three points. Bernie Parent made 47 saves; Wayne Thomas made 24 saves. The Leafs snapped an 0-16-3 skid in this series. Three Flyers were accused of assault by Ontario Attorney General Roy McMurtry who said "(It) bothers me that the Flyers don't have to play that way to win." Referee Dave Newell issued 42 penalties, four misconducts and 12 major penalties; one incident resulted in 163 PIMs. Little used Kurt Walker of Toronto received a gross misconduct penalty just 3:13 into the game as he and Dave Schultz fought. Afterwards Commissioner Clarence Campbell said "After all, the Maple Leafs set the standard of conduct for the game, bringing that Kurt Walker up. Before the game was a couple of minutes old (actually 3:13), Walker went out of his way to crosscheck Schultz so Toronto's intentions of how they were going to play were quite obvious." Philly established NHL records for penalties in a game (28) and in a period (17) and the teams combined to score six PPGs which also tied an NHL PO record. One bash spilled over into the crowd when fans spit and tossed ice at selected players. Four players were ejected: Ian Turnbull, Kurt Walker and Scott Garland of Toronto and Jack McIlhargey of Phily. McMurtry, the Ontario Attorney General, filed charges against Joe Watson and Don Saleski for common assault and dangerous weapons and to Mel Bridgman (on-ice lopsided fight of Borje Salming in an on-going attempt to limit hockey violence. The verdict was issued April 15, 1977.

1976 -- Apr. 22 -- In Game 6 at Toronto, Darryl Sittler, scoreless in the PO entering the game, scored five times (5-1-6, 11 shots on goal), including two in 32 seconds to make it 4-1, and Ian Turnbull added four assists in an 8-5 win. Sittler's five goals tied Maurice Richard's mark in 1944 and his six points tied Dickie Moore (1954) and Phil Esposito (1969). The Leafs' Brian Glennie was hit in the jaw by a puck and required immediate surgery; he did not dress for Game 7. Wayne Thomas made 42 saves. Bernie Parent gave up eight goals on 39 shots. The Flyers outshot the Leafs 47-39. There were 43 penalties and 185 PIMs called (94 for Toronto, the most by an opponent in any Flyers' PO game). Dave Schultz (NHL record 42 PIMs) and Tiger Williams (34 PIMs) set Flyers' franchise records for PIMs in a game by a member of the team and by an opponent. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj901...eature=related ; ; After the game, a 65-year old Leafs' fan elbowed Schultz in the corridor near the Flyers' dressing room. Bob Kelly got into a clash with a fan and his tossed glove struck an usherette in the eye (about a year later, a Judge fined Kelly $200). Schultz-Scott Garland fought -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i5krW2h7xs ;

1977 -- Apr. 15 -- In Game 3 at Toronto, Rick MacLeish (2-1-3) tied the game with 0:38 left in regulation then netted the GWG 2:55 into OT in Philly's 4-3 win. The usually reserved MacLeish jumped after scoring the OT winner and later said it was the first time in his memory that he reacted that way after scoring any goal on any level. With Mike Palmateer making fantastic stops in the game's final moments, Borje Salming's attempted clear was gloved by MacLeish who wheeled around and shot after hearing teammate Bob Dailey's command. Errol Thompson gave the Leafs a 3-2 lead with 4:09 left in regulation leading to a bench-clearing premature celebration. Toronto led 2-0 after one period on two PPGs. Goalies: Stephenson-Mike Palmateer. Prior to the game, legal incidents involving Flyers for fighting during Games 3 and 6 of the 1976 Playoffs were rectified when Judge Hugh Looke ruled that this "is not an important crime" despite an attorney's usage of a Ross Lonsberry quote who said "We'll do whatever it takes to win this series, even if we have to bail players from jail." Judge Looke also blamed Leafs' fans saying "They behaved like fans behaved 1,000 years ago in the latter days of Rome." For the incidents in Game 3, Joe Watson pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of common assault and a $750 fine, while assault charges against Mel Bridgman and Don Saleski were dropped. Bob Kelly, for his role in the Game 6 fray, was fined $200 for tossing his glove in the crowd which mistakenly hit an usherette in the eye.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-05-2010 at 04:14 PM.
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Old
12-05-2010, 04:44 PM
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The Maurice Richard suspension in 1955 (led to the Richard Riot in Montreal) was clear malicious stick work and Richard punched a ref in the face following a skirmish with Hal Laycoe of the Boston Bruins at the Boston Garden. Many Quebecois believed that Richard was punished and suspended for the rest of the regular season and playoffs because of his French-Canadian heritage, stating President Campbell had it out for the Habs and wanted Anglo teams to succeed. At the time of his suspension, Richard was the highest fined player in league history and was known as a notoriously dirty player, so NHL officials commented that Richard had sufficient warnings in the past and a playoff suspension would be the only way to quell his dangerous and reckless play on the ice.

As a direct result, Richard did not get the most goals (Geoffrion surpassed him), the Canadiens did not win the regular season (Howe's Detroit Red Wings won because they won a forfeited game at the Montreal Forum when Campbell was attacked by fans) and the Canadiens did not win the Stanley Cup (Richard averaged about a point per game in the playoffs).

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12-05-2010, 05:12 PM
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Definitely the Downie suspension. His incident was treated as one of the worst violations in NHL history and no one has come remotely close to receiving a similar suspension since.

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12-05-2010, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
Hmmm, I am thinking about the Gagne one, but I was also possibly thinking of the current thing with the emails from Colin Campbell, but I am not sure that would be doable. Thanks for the advice.
What kind of class is this for? Sounds like a fun class.

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12-05-2010, 06:00 PM
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How about Sean Avery and sloppy seconds?

Wasn't it 6 games for words lol? Though there is no real debate there, that was a ****** punishment.

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12-05-2010, 06:25 PM
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What kind of class is this for? Sounds like a fun class.
It is for a class called Sports Law and Ethics or something along those lines. Senior level course for Sports Management. I think I'm going to use the Gagne/Volchenkov issue as it seems like a good one to show how inconsistent the league is. Thanks for all the help.

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12-05-2010, 07:26 PM
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how about the bias toward crosby and the pens?

show his uncalled slew foot

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12-05-2010, 07:58 PM
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how about the bias toward crosby and the pens?

show his uncalled slew foot
And the disallowed goal from the Pens game last year when they didn't send all the replays to Toronto and IIRC nothing happened to the guy who was responsible (though I don't think the NHL had anything to do with that, it was more of a bad deed by the network broadcasting the game).

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12-05-2010, 08:32 PM
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And the disallowed goal from the Pens game last year when they didn't send all the replays to Toronto and IIRC nothing happened to the guy who was responsible (though I don't think the NHL had anything to do with that, it was more of a bad deed by the network broadcasting the game).
the guy was actually suspended for like a month

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12-05-2010, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydepps View Post
It is for a class called Sports Law and Ethics or something along those lines. Senior level course for Sports Management. I think I'm going to use the Gagne/Volchenkov issue as it seems like a good one to show how inconsistent the league is. Thanks for all the help.
I took a sports ethics class for my sports management major this passed summer. We had to do something similar, although it was a paper, not a presentation. I chose the broad topic of fighting in hockey; why it's ethical and why it should be in the game. I used several of the forementioned subjects and expanded on why fighting was vital to curb that from happening again.

My strongest argument was for players policing the game themselves. Use the Gagne/Volchenkov incident, but the Richards/Booth and Cooke/Savard incidents are also great examples, as was the Lemieux/Draper incident.

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12-05-2010, 10:18 PM
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I took a sports ethics class for my sports management major this passed summer. We had to do something similar, although it was a paper, not a presentation. I chose the broad topic of fighting in hockey; why it's ethical and why it should be in the game. I used several of the forementioned subjects and expanded on why fighting was vital to curb that from happening again.

My strongest argument was for players policing the game themselves. Use the Gagne/Volchenkov incident, but the Richards/Booth and Cooke/Savard incidents are also great examples, as was the Lemieux/Draper incident.
Yea, thanks I will definitely try to use at least two of the latter mentioned incidents. Teacher has been getting mad at people for going to long so now he is cutting us down to 10 minutes no more no less. So, this should be a very easy presentation considering I have a 1 minute video. Also, I wrote a very similar paper, but strangely enough it was Sport Economics. I was confused as hell about that class assigning an ethics paper. How has your Sport Management degree served you or are you still in college?

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12-06-2010, 02:39 PM
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Yea, thanks I will definitely try to use at least two of the latter mentioned incidents. Teacher has been getting mad at people for going to long so now he is cutting us down to 10 minutes no more no less. So, this should be a very easy presentation considering I have a 1 minute video. Also, I wrote a very similar paper, but strangely enough it was Sport Economics. I was confused as hell about that class assigning an ethics paper. How has your Sport Management degree served you or are you still in college?
Still here haha, I'll do my internship back in the Philly area over the summer, and walk in December *fingers crossed*

I wish mine was a presentation, I'm sure I could have been much more convincing with clips and such. Instead I just went after a blip that my teacher used earlier in the semester during a lecture, suggesting that hockey fights were assaults that were enjoyed by fans. I'm not sure if he necessarily believed it, but I went after it hard. I second guessed myself several times throughout the paper, wondering how hockey fights COULD be ethical...

So keep in mind the alternative, and how nasty the game would be without players and "goons" policing the game. Matt Cookes, Steve Downies, and Jordin Tootoos would be running rampant taking out stars with no one to answer to.

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