I was going to quote everyone in this thread that blew a hole in the OP's argument but then I would have had to pretty much quote the entire thread.
MPS should be in the AHL no matter what happens with Omark. HE is the one who needs a year of seasoning in the minors. Omark is NOT a kid, he has pro experience. We are not a team thats super deep like the Wings. Those players were in the minors more because there was no room for them.
The wrong people are on the big club right now. No way Reddox and OMark should be in the AHL with the state of this club.
So the logic behind putting a 23 year old player, in the AHL, with experience from several pro leagues, is to let him mature his game, while a bunch of pups whom are not even 20 yet can play in the big league - and suck - right from the bat?
Omark said he was sent down because of politics and he was 100% right. He got one measly pre-season game to prove what he could do on the ice and shined (I'm not counting games playing 5 min of 4th line duty with grinders).
I don't even know why people keep compairing Omark with Brunnström, because Brunnström has alot more in common with Pääjärvi than he has ever had with Omark. Brunnström had a hot streak in a 2nd half of a season and was the flash in the pan all of a sudden. He has never consistently produced at a high level, neither has Pääjärvi.
Omark on the other hand, has consistently produced at a high level, both as a go-to guy in SEL where he made players around him better and in KHL, in a very tough enviroment where he still came through and did what was expected of him. And it's not like his skilled, gritty play style doesn't transition well to the small rink either, on the contrary. He has excellent ice vision, great mentality and confidence in himself, a decent shot and is not afraid to go into the dirty areas. In fact he seeks the dirty areas, because he knows that's where it pays off to be. And his board play, balance and ability to stay on the puck, is despite his size incredibly strong.
If anyone should be nurtured as the creator of this thread proposes, it's the pups who are on the team right now. But the Oilers are obviously not Detroit.
the brunnstrom comparison is laughable really. Brunnstrom had 37p in SEL as a 22 year old while Omark had 55p as a 21 year old.
As voxel says, the OP's main argument loses its punch when you look at what the players in question actually did prior to coming to the NHL.
Omark is not some 18 year old you-tube phenom, who needs to learn the pro game. He is primarily in the AHL because of the staus of his contract and the decision to allow three rookies to stick with the big team. He has played in very good leagues for several years and has succeeded.
Good post. Ownership/Management were desparate to keep the fan base on its side after last year it was a no brainer. They will at some point and I think its sooner than later call him up, a few of the players up on the big club are picking up just enough to possibly move them.
I think it's easier for a player to wait knowing he'll be on a top team and stanley cup contender/champion, then waiting a year or two to play on a piece of crap team. gives the team more leverage, too. I'd rather wait an extra year to be on detroit, than the lame duck oilers.
This. Play around stronger talent and earn your spot into the top 6.
Oil managment once again has some emotional disconnect with Omark. This team's management feeds off it.
Mark my words, he will not get called up this year. Before the season's over, he will return to Europe or after the season. He is done as an Oiler ... before he even started.
The biggest difference here is that Helm was competing against seasoned veterans for playing time. Detroit has long had the advantage of deep veteran teams. This is what allows them to let their prospects develop slowly.
The Oilers are a completely different situation. Cogliano, Brule, Pajaarvi, Eberle and Hall are not veterans. Omark could easily take a lot of the ice time allotted to any of these players. Heck MPS in particular could spend some time on the farm to let Omark play top 9 minutes.
Omark doesn't have to come up to the NHL and play fourth line minutes. If he was in Detroit's system yes he might. But with the Oilers there are lots of places he could slot in.
However I wouldn't argue that he needs to be called up. The benefit of him being in the AHL right now is that team is having success. Let him continue to develop confidence (alright maybe he has tons of that) and maturity. That way when he does make the big show he has a better chance of success here and a good chance of sticking in the NHL.
The AHL is a fairly competitive league that teaches players who are a slight step behind the elite rookies what it takes to play in the show. There's really no point in throwing Omark into the **** show this season, he's dominating the AHL and with that, he's helping out the other young guys too. He isn't the answer this season. Smaller players take longer time to develop. That's the way it is.
The biggest difference here is that Helm was competing against seasoned veterans for playing time. Detroit has long had the advantage of deep veteran teams. This is what allows them to let their prospects develop slowly.
The Oilers are a completely different situation. Cogliano, Brule, Pajaarvi, Eberle and Hall are not veterans. Omark could easily take a lot of the ice time allotted to any of these players. Heck MPS in particular could spend some time on the farm to let Omark play top 9 minutes.
Omark doesn't have to come up to the NHL and play fourth line minutes. If he was in Detroit's system yes he might. But with the Oilers there are lots of places he could slot in.
However I wouldn't argue that he needs to be called up. The benefit of him being in the AHL right now is that team is having success. Let him continue to develop confidence (alright maybe he has tons of that) and maturity. That way when he does make the big show he has a better chance of success here and a good chance of sticking in the NHL.
Personally I have few doubts he could already be a top forward on the current oiler team but the benefit of having him in the AHL should be improving his defensive game. What I would like to see Renney display is some "tough love", which will push Omark to improve his game where it clearly needs it. But that also means they should bring him up to showcase the improvements. Sometimes it feels like the NA hockey world still lives in the 60s where you actually believed that crap made you stronger.
Leaving Omark without guidance or hope doesn't help him becoming a better player. The talent level of this guy is way up there with the best of prospects. Oilers needs to work on their development strategy and get into the modern world.
So the logic behind putting a 23 year old player, in the AHL, with experience from several pro leagues, is to let him mature his game, while a bunch of pups whom are not even 20 yet can play in the big league - and suck - right from the bat?
Omark said he was sent down because of politics and he was 100% right. He got one measly pre-season game to prove what he could do on the ice and shined (I'm not counting games playing 5 min of 4th line duty with grinders).
I don't even know why people keep compairing Omark with Brunnström, because Brunnström has alot more in common with Pääjärvi than he has ever had with Omark. Brunnström had a hot streak in a 2nd half of a season and was the flash in the pan all of a sudden. He has never consistently produced at a high level, neither has Pääjärvi.
Omark on the other hand, has consistently produced at a high level, both as a go-to guy in SEL where he made players around him better and in KHL, in a very tough enviroment where he still came through and did what was expected of him. And it's not like his skilled, gritty play style doesn't transition well to the small rink either, on the contrary. He has excellent ice vision, great mentality and confidence in himself, a decent shot and is not afraid to go into the dirty areas. In fact he seeks the dirty areas, because he knows that's where it pays off to be. And his board play, balance and ability to stay on the puck, is despite his size incredibly strong.
If anyone should be nurtured as the creator of this thread proposes, it's the pups who are on the team right now. But the Oilers are obviously not Detroit.
Well said.
Hall was a good decision to play in the bigs. Eberle is ready and it shows. MPS is adjusting. I don't have a problem with him in the NHL now. Could have used some AHL time tho as mentioned to get use to the NA style/system and ice. Omark should have made this team from the start. I have no issue with Gagner making the jump from junior. He had a strong rookie season. He had a decent sophomore season. Injuries hampered his 3rd season and would have hit the 50 point mark. He's playing decent this season and I feel he's close to hit 60 points soon. Cogliano had a strong rookie season. I feel it's managements' problem for playing him at his weaknesses. The man cannot win f/o's.. what does that tell you? Don't f*'ing make him a center! Really, they should have let him walk and allowed Omark to make the jump. Shoulda woulda coulda! This is now and we as fans have to deal with it. This is not Detroit or any other hockey team. Many teams have succeeded by bringing in the youth. Others have chose to take the Detroit approach. Then there's the Edmonton Oilers. They make decisions based on politics all the time.
Oil managment once again has some emotional disconnect with Omark. This team's management feeds off it.
Mark my words, he will not get called up this year. Before the season's over, he will return to Europe or after the season. He is done as an Oiler ... before he even started.
You don't think thats a little to heavy on the conspiracy theory?
I think Omark will find his way onto the team some time between the mid-season mark and trade deadline. IMO, Cogs and Penner will be gone and hopefully the return is either picks or prospects. That would make the room necessary for Omark. There's no point in playing him on the 4th line, maybe not even the 3rd. I also agree that MPS should have to do his tour in the AHL before the season is out, though I doubt it happens.
I am so sick and tired of hearing about how Detroit did things. Here's one for you, their scout Hakan Anderson or whatever the **** his name is, is supposed to be the guru of all guru's and their scouting is so much better than everyone else's right?
Well how come they waited until 6th and 7th rounds to take Datsyuk and Zetterberg? Surely if they knew how good they were going to be they would have warranted a first round pick? No? Instead they took Jiri Fischer in the first round in Datsyuk's draft and they felt so secure the next year they didnt get a pick until the fourth round where they selected some scrub named Jari Tolsa who never played a game in the league, over Zetterberg who didnt go until the seventh round. Good planning there.
Btw, we are not the Detroit Red Wings. We dont have vets like Brett Hull, Nik Lidstrom, Steve Yzerman, Chris Chelios, Sergei Fedorov, Brendan Shanahan, Dominick Hasek..........etc..
We also didnt win the cup last year.
We are a thirtieth place team with more holes than we can fill.
Dude...what's the big deal?
A lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth in your post. You are kinda freaking out and worrying for nothing.
Try to unpucker your bottom, take it for what it is, and enjoy the fact the we even have Omark.
At this point, Omark isn't part of the plan, so dont waste time sweating it.
In short, cheer up, put a smile on your face and look forward to the day Omark gets called up.
I think we should send down Paajarvi down and bring Omark up. I know people say that we need patience, but I dont want to see Paajarvi go down the same road as our other rushed prospects.
I don´t get this people how saying he not part of plan right now? What is plan? getting ***** slap night after night?poor development of big 3? give all vets worst trade value u can get?.
I badly wanna see Omark play too and so do most oiler fans cause right now what i see on the ice is a joke. But what pisses me off more is this whole Omark thing has shed light on how badly this team is run. I mean how is this kid supposed develop properly when he's had absolutely no contact from them , if I were him i wouldnt even wanna play for them anymore and it gives the oilers a really bad image. And I don't see changes being made at the management level anytime soon so were gonna be ****ed for a while if they don't change their ways.
I dont get this thread when we have Hall, Eberle and Paajarvi up that are all younger, I would prefer Omark up before Hall or Paajarvi not that I dont like how they play, I just think Omark is ready and the other three would enjoy this year more in the minors ripping it up in a better environment.(not all three, Im just saying they would gain valuable experience and get pucks in the net more at that stage)
plus Detroit could afford to let those players excel in the minors as they had a very exceptional team thanks to amazing drafting, what a stellar organization that is and we'll soon be able to do that when the years come.
So to those that say Swedish players and people look at the AHL as something distasteful and under them.
I say, if it was ok for Pavel Datsyuk or Henrik Zetterberg, 2 players that ANY current Oiler rookie, in the NHL or AHL, could only hope to have as accomplished career as, Id say 1 season in the AHL isnt asking to much of them.
Makes more sense for Paajarvi than it does for Omark.
Omark has already dominated in the SEL and was a very good offensive player in the KHL. Paajarvi was just a .5ppg player in the SEL. The ahl would have been a great place for him.
Makes more sense for Paajarvi than it does for Omark.
Omark has already dominated in the SEL and was a very good offensive player in the KHL. Paajarvi was just a .5ppg player in the SEL. The ahl would have been a great place for him.
it just sucks for the oilers organization((not really) but the decision on who should stay up) as they all have so much raw talent but I dont think this will hurt any of their careers.
i agree on all counts, except gagner... he was in somewhat of a unique spot when he was 18.... also, he's actually a pretty good NHL player, not great, but far from terrible... he's very small and not overly fast, both of which would not have been helped by more time in the minors... gagner is the player he is, extra development time or not
i also agree that the 19 year old AHL-juior rule is simply ridiculous... every year there are 3-4 players in the NHL who should really be in the AHL (hall, seguin this year for example)... but because of a very stupid rule, they have to either play in junior (which they are too good for) or the NHL (which they aren't quite ready for yet).... there needs to be a change in the rule, where each NHL team is allowed one exception every 2 years, where a 18/19 year old can go to the AHL instead of back to junior
i'm a big fan of hall, paajarvi and eberle going down to oklahoma city for the AHL playoffs after the oilers season is over... i know that hall can't go down till windsor's season is over, but they are a middle of the road team and could easily be knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs... they would get prime minutes in meaningful games - would probable do wonders for their development
The 'stupid rule' protects the NHL's golden goose, the CHL which is still the primary feeder for NHL talent. The NHL is smart enough to take a longterm view of this development relationship and underaged talent is cultivated in junior loops while filling rinks and paying the bills to ensure financially viable junior teams and leagues.
Many of the tweener players aren't physically or mentally ready for professional play against men ten and fifteen years their senior. No harm in ensuring peer based competition to build results and play a dominant role and impact on the game.
Many posters thought Pitlick should be ticketed to the AHL after a strong rookie camp and tournament. He's been quite good in the Dub but hardly a dominating force. Pitlick is in the right place and league for his longterm development.
EDIT: It doesn't hurt Omark to establish himself with some AHL time. The NHL team is small, weak and getting pushed around. They could quite conceiveably be trying to figure out what to do with Cogs and maybe even Brule. I expect Omark is an Oiler before the trade deadline.
Last edited by Behind Enemy Lines: 11-21-2010 at 07:56 PM.
Reason: Omark told me too....
If Omark would keep his mouth shut, then I bet he'd already be on the big club.
I'm not denying what he said about politics to be true...of course it's true...This roster was pretty much set one week after the FA period started. But things like that happen with every team....those players that have to clear waivers, stay up, while those that don't get sent down.
The 3 kids made the team the minute they had their little jersey ceremony...it's a PR move from the get go.
BUT, Paajarvi is lagging behind...i would bet IF Omark had said the right things, a move swapping the two would be happening soon. If he keeps talking about it, whether to Swedish papers or in North america, he is only delaying the promotion.
When you are a 3 time allstar, you can talk to the press about disagreeing with managements decisions. When you have 0 NHL games on your resume, you keep your pie hole closed and spout the company line.
