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Whats does it take to get a 1st?

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06-16-2004, 08:17 PM
  #1
Sum1winachampionship
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Whats does it take to get a 1st?

So the first draft I watched was two years ago when we got Joni. I watched last year because we had two picks so I don't have alot of draft experience. What would it take to get a first rounder this year?

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06-16-2004, 08:30 PM
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Yertle The Turtle
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Handzus and a 3rd maby for a mid 1st round pick.

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06-16-2004, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1winachampionship
So the first draft I watched was two years ago when we got Joni. I watched last year because we had two picks so I don't have alot of draft experience. What would it take to get a first rounder this year?

wouldn't be worth it, it's a weak draft.

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06-16-2004, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyerfreak941
Handzus and a 3rd maby for a mid 1st round pick.
58 points for... a first?

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06-16-2004, 09:04 PM
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Yertle The Turtle
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No every one else around here has been saying trade zeus at the draft and i really dont think we should go for a 1st because its a weak draft like you said but i figured i would mention it since its been tossed around so much. I would never trade Zeus for a mid first round pick this year.

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06-16-2004, 09:22 PM
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Diesel
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I would trade Handzus, Carter OR Richards, Radivojevic, and our 1st next year for the 1st overall. Otherwise, its not really worth it. This draft is two players deep.

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06-16-2004, 09:34 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
I would trade Handzus, Carter OR Richards, Radivojevic, and our 1st next year for the 1st overall. Otherwise, its not really worth it. This draft is two players deep.
Sure, but McPhee would never do it. While all seem like good NHL players or prospects, the player they have a chance to select at No. 1 has a chance to be a serious impact player. If I were him, you'd have to give me Pitkanen and Gagne.

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06-16-2004, 10:05 PM
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Seeing as this is Hockey's Future, many people grossly overestimate the value of 1st round picks. In this draft, I wouldn't trade Handzus for anything less than a 5-10 pick. You are just taking too much of a risk and setting yourself back years for anything less.

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06-16-2004, 10:14 PM
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Diesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
Sure, but McPhee would never do it. While all seem like good NHL players or prospects, the player they have a chance to select at No. 1 has a chance to be a serious impact player. If I were him, you'd have to give me Pitkanen and Gagne.
If I were him, I wouldn't take it either. But it also has alot to do with the position that the team is in as well. If Florida had the first round pick this year instead of last year, I think they'd have taken that deal. The mandate from ownership was for that team to improve immediately, and Dudley's objective was to try to get some players who could help them immediately. Of course, Dudley is out of a job now, I think, partially because he was unable to do that.

That being said, the Flyers are still in a pretty good position as far as top end talent goes. They should target defense and left wing in this draft. The Center position is obviously looking pretty good with Carter, Richards, and Sharp. Right wing looks good with Ruzicka, Umberger (who figures to move to wing), and Radivojevic. Left wing you have Gagne on the 1st line and then Eager. Eager might be a 2nd line guy, but I envision him more as a 3rd line banger who can net you 15 to 20 goals. Again, this is all speculation. All or none of these guys could pan out. Its fun to think about, though.


Last edited by Diesel: 06-16-2004 at 10:22 PM.
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06-16-2004, 11:47 PM
  #10
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we got our 1st and 2nd round picks. Ben Eager and RJ Umberger... It's not worth it for how weak this draft is supposed to be. A 1st would be nice, if they could maneuver into the 2nd round, that is good enough

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06-17-2004, 12:06 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel
I would trade Handzus, Carter OR Richards, Radivojevic, and our 1st next year for the 1st overall. Otherwise, its not really worth it. This draft is two players deep.
So you mean....

A 2nd/3rd line center + a young unproven forward (2nd line upsided) + a 3rd line winger + a late 1st rounder (crapshoot)

for

A potential franchise player

I don't really know if the Flyers have what it takes to get the 1st overall. To get a first round pick in this years draft, I would guess that Handzus could fetch a mid-round first. Trevor Linden got the 10th overall pick a few years back

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06-17-2004, 08:55 AM
  #12
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Handzus, mixed with the right package of picks, I think could get you a 5-10 pick assuming you find the right team. What teams in the top 20 need a defensively minded 2/3 line center to help push them into the playoffs?

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06-17-2004, 09:01 AM
  #13
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I looked at the draft order and I think the most likely destinations for Handzus would be:

Florida-Something just seems right about that move to me, can't tell you why

12-Minnesota-fits into their system well
14-Edmonton-could really use a big center, reportedly wanted Handzus in the Comrie trade
17-St. Louis-regret the day they traded him
18-Montreal-could use a big center that actually plays defense, if he took on Primeau's role he could help push them further up the playoff ladder

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06-17-2004, 09:10 AM
  #14
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seriously, what is the whole obsession with trading Handzus? He had the 2nd most points on the team, 2nd highest +/-, averaged more ice-time than any other Flyers forward. Also had the 2nd most assists of any Flyer. He also didn't miss a single game. Was tied for 2nd in goals during the playoffs. And you guys want to trade him for some draft pick? Give me a break.

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06-17-2004, 10:29 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
seriously, what is the whole obsession with trading Handzus? He had the 2nd most points on the team, 2nd highest +/-, averaged more ice-time than any other Flyers forward. Also had the 2nd most assists of any Flyer. He also didn't miss a single game. Was tied for 2nd in goals during the playoffs. And you guys want to trade him for some draft pick? Give me a break.
People love playing GM. Right now, he is one of our most valuable assets along with Gagne (been through those trade proposals), Pitkanen (nobody is that dumb, yet), Johnsson (I admit I even proposed a Johnsson for Khabibulin deal last summer), and some prospects like Carter and Richards (who are surely to be HFboards trade bait eventually). There is no sign that he will be dealt.

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06-17-2004, 10:37 AM
  #16
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Fly High, I think the fascination is more about Carter than anything else. I personally don't want to see him traded, but Carter does present some issues. If Clarke resigns Zhamnov we know 2 centers right off the bat. If you assume Sharp is the 4th line guy and that Carter makes the team, where does that leave Handzus? Will Handzus take a demotion to the 4th line? Would he be a great 4th line center for us? I think he would, but does he? During the 2202/2003 season the line of Somik/Handzus/Brashear was our best line for a good part of the early season.

I don't think we see any of the young centers on the team next year, but if we do I think it all works out this way, and Handzus stays. The proposed Handzus trades above were just input in a discussion not my preference. Roenick will move to the RW no matter what happens, IMO.

Scenario 1-no young guys

Zhamnov/Handzus/Primeau/Sharp
Carter and Richards to Juniors, Umberger plays all year with the Phantoms

Scenario 2-just 1 young center makes the team
Zhamnov/YOUNG CENTER/Primeau/Handzus
Sharp moves to RW
With the young guys, it is all dependent upon who makes the team, but as above Carter and Richards only have the option of Juniors, Umberger AHL

Scenario 3-2 young guys
Zhamnov/YOUNG CENTER/Primeau/Handzus
Sharp to RW
One young center officially becomes a wing - Carter RW, Richards LW, Umberger LW
The other young guy goes to either juniors or the AHL depending upon who it is.

Scenario 4
Zhamnov/YOUNG CENTER/Primeau/Handzus
Sharp to RW
One young center officially becomes a wing - Carter RW, Richards LW, Umberger LW
No player goes to juniors or the AHL.

Chances of each scenario happening?
1-70%
2-20%
3-8%
4-2%

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06-17-2004, 10:44 AM
  #17
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It also wouldnt hurt to have some compromising photographs.

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06-17-2004, 10:49 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
I looked at the draft order and I think the most likely destinations for Handzus would be:

Florida-Something just seems right about that move to me, can't tell you why

12-Minnesota-fits into their system well
14-Edmonton-could really use a big center, reportedly wanted Handzus in the Comrie trade
17-St. Louis-regret the day they traded him
18-Montreal-could use a big center that actually plays defense, if he took on Primeau's role he could help push them further up the playoff ladder
The most likely destination for Michal Handzus is Philadelphia. Why do people insist on something that obviously isn't going to happen? Clarke said he is going to re-sign Handzus, he wouldn't say that if he was going to trade him.

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06-17-2004, 11:07 AM
  #19
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I agree GKJ, the most likely place for Handzus to end up is Philly. The trade destinations were simply following the discussions above. Would Handzus get us a first and where could he go? My next post with possible scenarios I think better breaks down the possible destinations for Handzus. The whole Handzus trade discussion I think comes from 2 things.

1. Carter may be ready, and nobody thinks he should play with 4th line players.

2. If Carter is ready, how would Handzus take to the demotion to the 4th line? He didn't do well with that in Phoenix and that contributed to his being traded. Why would Handzus be the 4th line center? Zhamnov being resigned destines Handzus to the 4th line.

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06-17-2004, 11:13 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFlyer
1. Carter may be ready, and nobody thinks he should play with 4th line players.

2. If Carter is ready, how would Handzus take to the demotion to the 4th line? He didn't do well with that in Phoenix and that contributed to his being traded. Why would Handzus be the 4th line center? Zhamnov being resigned destines Handzus to the 4th line.
After seeing how Hitchcock put Comrie (a former 30 goal scorer) on the 4th line, I have no doubts that if Jeff Carter were to make the team next season, about 90% of his ice time will come by playing with Patrick Sharp and Radovan Somik on the 4th line

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06-17-2004, 11:36 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
After seeing how Hitchcock put Comrie (a former 30 goal scorer) on the 4th line, I have no doubts that if Jeff Carter were to make the team next season, about 90% of his ice time will come by playing with Patrick Sharp and Radovan Somik on the 4th line
You are right... provided, of course, that Handzus is on the team. There's no reason to get all up in arms about trading Handzus because in all liklihood, its not going to happen. The only way I wouldn't mind seeing him traded is if its in a package for the 1st or 2nd pick in the draft, and then only if its the right package. Then, I think its worth the gamble. Ovechkin is supposed to be a rare talent and this other kid (his name escapes at the moment- I apologize) is supposed to be pretty close.

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06-17-2004, 11:42 AM
  #22
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as much as i'd like us to get a 1st in this draft, next year is supposedly a very strong draft so i'd rather we wait to next year and see if we can package a player/another pick along with our first to get a top-end winger. this year, i think it would be smart to try and get a 2nd rounder and pick up a player that some teams may have overlooked.

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06-17-2004, 01:04 PM
  #23
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Yeah, but IS Zhamnov going to be resigned? I loved Zhammy to death, but I don't think they should resign him, I'd rather see Recchi back in the orange and black in a cheap deal. We got to start jettisonning some centers somewhere to make room for those guys coming up and Zhamnov may just have to be a victim.

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06-17-2004, 01:36 PM
  #24
stanley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
we got our 1st and 2nd round picks. Ben Eager and RJ Umberger.
That's not a bad way to look at it. From a slightly different point of view, Williams, Comrie, Woywitka - and you could even consider Vandermeer - are players they shipped out last year. However, they did add other young players to the system, such as Radivojevic, Eager, and now Umberger. I'd definitely take the first three over the last three, but it seems that they still maintained a good set of young players in the organization.

Furthermore, the trades last year really improved last year's team. Markov is just getting into his prime and they got some good mileage out of Zhamnov. Where would the Flyers have been without him down the stretch? That was one of the most productive deadline acquisitions Clarke has ever made. I have a much different view of Zhamnov than I did before I watched him play everyday. Anywho, I digress.

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06-17-2004, 02:40 PM
  #25
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As I have said before, I would be in favor of trading Handzus in a package to get into the top 5-8 of the first round. After 8 there are not many players who interest me. To move up to the 5th or earlier would be too costly. I personally think Carter will make the team. Zues is as good as he will ever be, a player like Ladd or Schremp could really leave us stocked for the future.

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