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Old
11-22-2010, 01:43 PM
  #26
Vagrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Russian View Post
4th line or not Sammy and Jokinen did something on that line to go back on the top 9..
This. O'Sullivan was insurance for one of the many inconsistent players we have not showing up this season. Between Cole, Samsonov, and the uncertainly surrounding players like Skinner and the possibility that Jokinen simply had a career year last season, we needed another ready made Top 9 forward and when all of those question marks above turned in quality performances for the first 15-20 games of the season, it became obvious that he didn't have a place here. Tlusty is more defensively responsible and thus gets a bottom six spot ahead of O'Sullivan. Those two were in a quiet battle for the minutes and apparently Tlusty made better use of his limited minutes and practiced better.

With Boychuk, Terry, and Samson all playing well in the AHL it also gives us the insurance that in the event of an injury, we can have some of those guys slide up and play pretty well. It just doesn't make sense to have O'Sullivan elevated right now.

It wouldn't shock me to see him clear and it wouldn't shock me to see him claimed. Either way, there is nothing to lament here about O'Sullivan's time in my opinion. He had some opportunities to do some good things, including his shootout attempt, that he didn't really deliver upon. When you have a small window for success you need to jump through it.

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11-22-2010, 01:45 PM
  #27
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The past two games I watched with him on the 4th line, he made multiple solid plays in the defensive zone. They didn't really get into the offensive zone much, but in past games, he has played pretty well from what I remember seeing. I'm sure if you weren't specifically looking for him to do something, he was invisible, but the same can be said of most any 4th liner in the NHL. They get out there, they don't get scored on, they go to the bench. Wanting anything more or less is kind of ridiculous, in my opinion.

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11-22-2010, 01:58 PM
  #28
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The writing was on the wall for awhile now. I'm just going to act like we never signed the guy to begin with.

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11-22-2010, 02:07 PM
  #29
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I think someone hit the nail on the head as to why Tlusty wasn't waived... Mo's pet... the guy has done nothing to prove he should be here either... So if both have done nothing, don't you take the one that has scored 20 goals in the NHL? I also think Tlusty gets bonus points because JR desperately wants him to succeed so the Paradis pick doesn't look as stupid as it does right now... If Tlusty succeeds, it looks a lot better

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11-22-2010, 02:10 PM
  #30
Vagrant
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The 4th line when O'Sullivan was skating on it really had a hard time getting out of their own zone. The thing about skating a player on the 4th line is that when they're down there, they're not supposed to look like they belong if they're wanting to move up lines. Samsonov and Jokinen both played their way out of that position earlier this season, so to say that you can't really show anything on the 4th line is a bit ridiculous to me. Ice time is ice time regardless of who you play with and having another guy down there like Tlusty to work with isn't exactly having no talent to play with.

O'Sullivan went out there and played relatively mistake free, but he didn't make anything positive happen. He looked like a 4th liner, which was bad. He wasn't supposed to look decent out there, he was supposed to make something happen. The shootout attempt was another opportunity given to him that he didn't really "earn" in the conventional sense. He just didn't really capitalize on any of the chances he had. I think Carolina was trying to make him hungry by sitting him out of games so he would come back hard and realize that he was in danger of losing his job, but he didn't respond that way.

The truth is that the NHL is not a charity. It's not about feel good stories or maligned players making good. At the end of the day, you need to play hard to get your opportunities and if you don't then you're not going to get them. There was no real sense of urgency in his play.

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11-22-2010, 02:15 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
The 4th line when O'Sullivan was skating on it really had a hard time getting out of their own zone. The thing about skating a player on the 4th line is that when they're down there, they're not supposed to look like they belong if they're wanting to move up lines. Samsonov and Jokinen both played their way out of that position earlier this season, so to say that you can't really show anything on the 4th line is a bit ridiculous to me. Ice time is ice time regardless of who you play with and having another guy down there like Tlusty to work with isn't exactly having no talent to play with.

O'Sullivan went out there and played relatively mistake free, but he didn't make anything positive happen. He looked like a 4th liner, which was bad. He wasn't supposed to look decent out there, he was supposed to make something happen. The shootout attempt was another opportunity given to him that he didn't really "earn" in the conventional sense. He just didn't really capitalize on any of the chances he had. I think Carolina was trying to make him hungry by sitting him out of games so he would come back hard and realize that he was in danger of losing his job, but he didn't respond that way.

The truth is that the NHL is not a charity. It's not about feel good stories or maligned players making good. At the end of the day, you need to play hard to get your opportunities and if you don't then you're not going to get them. There was no real sense of urgency in his play.
What has Tlusty done to deserve his spot then, vs. POS?

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11-22-2010, 02:23 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Anton View Post
What has Tlusty done to deserve his spot then, vs. POS?
For starters, he's only 22 years old. While age isn't always a prime factor, it is important to note that one player is in the early stages of development in his career and the other is in what is supposed to be his prime years. Developmentally, Tlusty has a much better chance to improve than O'Sullivan has due to the age and experience difference.

We're in the middle of a quiet rebuild. We have to cultivate young talent in order to do so. Many, myself included, have bemoaned that we haven't dedicated to playing young players when veterans were doing just as much and no better while keeping their jobs.

Plus, Tlusty has been a soldier for us here. He was sent down unfairly to Albany last year as a result of a numbers game and you never heard a peep out of him. He went down, scored 15 points in 20 games, and then got hurt in playoff games.

He also projects more comfortably as a 3rd line player and can help the Canes this year to win more games.

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Old
11-22-2010, 02:31 PM
  #33
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I guess we just don't agree, but I do respect your opinion... I think POS is only 24, so I don't think age can be a factor... I think it really goes back the Paradis pick and being Mo's pet...

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11-22-2010, 02:43 PM
  #34
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Another thing to consider about Tlusty vs. POS is that Tlusty is coming off major knee surgery over the summer. I don't think he should be playing right now, but he's a hockey player and he's been told he can play, so he will. He isn't going to be at top speed this year, while POS is by all accounts as healthy as he's ever going to get.

Also, Puck Daddy made the comment that this may lead to a trade of O'Sullivan, but that could be bogus.

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11-22-2010, 02:53 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
Another thing to consider about Tlusty vs. POS is that Tlusty is coming off major knee surgery over the summer. I don't think he should be playing right now, but he's a hockey player and he's been told he can play, so he will. He isn't going to be at top speed this year, while POS is by all accounts as healthy as he's ever going to get.

Also, Puck Daddy made the comment that this may lead to a trade of O'Sullivan, but that could be bogus.
what would we even get for POS? A 5th round pick? a 6th?

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:05 PM
  #36
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Doubt it will be just a pick. If it's going to cost a team a pick they'll just snagg him off waivers. JR has said however, if O'Sullivan goes unclaimed that doesn't mean teams aren't interested, it could potentially mean there is interest but the team cannot or doesn't want to take on the salary, even if it is league minimum. In that case, they'll offer us a player of comparable salary in order to complete the swap. Much like the Jussi Jokinen situation, as much as JR wanted to claim him off waivers, he didn't have the budget room, therefore having to wait and construct a deal that sent Melichar & Brookbank to Tampa Bay.

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:10 PM
  #37
Stephen Goalbert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Anton View Post
Doubt it will be just a pick. If it's going to cost a team a pick they'll just snagg him off waivers. JR has said however, if O'Sullivan goes unclaimed that doesn't mean teams aren't interested, it could potentially mean there is interest but the team cannot or doesn't want to take on the salary, even if it is league minimum. In that case, they'll offer us a player of comparable salary in order to complete the swap. Much like the Jussi Jokinen situation, as much as JR wanted to claim him off waivers, he didn't have the budget room, therefore having to wait and construct a deal that sent Melichar & Brookbank to Tampa Bay.
Best. Trade. Evar.

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Anton the Great View Post
Best. Trade. Evar.
You betcha. Get a 30 goal scorer for some old Hardees coupons and a 5 dollar footlong.

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Anton Callahan View Post
I've seen just as much from POS on the 4th line than anyone else we've put there. What do you want him to do with 8 minutes or less sporadically throughout the game? Kind of hard to get into any sort of rhythm. We never gave him a legit shot here. If you want to delude yourself into thinking otherwise than feel free.
I'm not deluding myself to think anything. I was excited when we sighned O'Sullivan and thought he was our best player in the pre-season, then something happened. What I don't know, but he digressed. And i'm sorry but Jokinen and Samsonov were both on the 4th and I saw alot more from them in that limited role.

I wanted O'Sullivan to suceed here, but he didn't show me anything to say we should remove someone else, except Tlusy, but he's on the 4th anyway and it doesnt really matter who plays there.

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11-22-2010, 03:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by State of Anton View Post
Doubt it will be just a pick. If it's going to cost a team a pick they'll just snagg him off waivers. JR has said however, if O'Sullivan goes unclaimed that doesn't mean teams aren't interested, it could potentially mean there is interest but the team cannot or doesn't want to take on the salary, even if it is league minimum. In that case, they'll offer us a player of comparable salary in order to complete the swap. Much like the Jussi Jokinen situation, as much as JR wanted to claim him off waivers, he didn't have the budget room, therefore having to wait and construct a deal that sent Melichar & Brookbank to Tampa Bay.
so.....in your opinion...who out there fits that bill? team and player wise? someone we could actually use i guess

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Old
11-22-2010, 03:24 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane Anton View Post
I guess we just don't agree, but I do respect your opinion... I think POS is only 24, so I don't think age can be a factor... I think it really goes back the Paradis pick and being Mo's pet...
O'Sullivan will actually be 26 in February. Not that it's a world of difference, but 3 1/2 to 4 years of professional experience can be a pretty long time. Tlusty will not turn 23 until nearly the end of the season, so there is a pretty decent age gap there as far as prospects are concerned. A player is supposed to improve tremendously between 22-26.

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11-22-2010, 03:38 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Skinner View Post
so.....in your opinion...who out there fits that bill? team and player wise? someone we could actually use i guess
I know I wasn't asked, but I will kick in an opinion anyways. I would look towards bottom pairing defensive minded defenders or players that have worn out their welcome in other locations but have a history of solid play. David Hale is actually a guy that has had rumors swirling about him. I don't know if Ottawa needs a player of O'Sullivan's ilk, but he'd be a JR kind of target. Ottawa could possibly want a defender back in the deal and it wouldn't shock me if something like David Hale and a low round pick for O'Sullivan and Carson/Borer came to fruition. Ottawa would send Hale to bingo but they're worried he'd be claimed. So while he's up with Ottawa, Brian Lee has been sitting some nights. Having guys that can easily go up and down between bingo and Ottawa the way Carson does here would be a nice luxury for them.

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11-22-2010, 03:44 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Skinner View Post
so.....in your opinion...who out there fits that bill? team and player wise? someone we could actually use i guess
I'd honestly guess the Islanders as a team that would give him a go, they're the same team that took on Rob Schremp. Not to mention they can't score more than 1-2 goals per game. Whether or not they claim him or trade, I don't know.

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Old
11-22-2010, 04:29 PM
  #44
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Eh, I suppose I was hoping for him to do well, but I'm certainly not going to be thinking too much about "what could have been." He's very talented, but simply wasn't going to get a chance here. It's too bad, but whatever...

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11-22-2010, 05:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I know I wasn't asked, but I will kick in an opinion anyways. I would look towards bottom pairing defensive minded defenders or players that have worn out their welcome in other locations but have a history of solid play. David Hale is actually a guy that has had rumors swirling about him. I don't know if Ottawa needs a player of O'Sullivan's ilk, but he'd be a JR kind of target. Ottawa could possibly want a defender back in the deal and it wouldn't shock me if something like David Hale and a low round pick for O'Sullivan and Carson/Borer came to fruition. Ottawa would send Hale to bingo but they're worried he'd be claimed. So while he's up with Ottawa, Brian Lee has been sitting some nights. Having guys that can easily go up and down between bingo and Ottawa the way Carson does here would be a nice luxury for them.

yeah I saw the thing you threw up on the trade board. i kinda like the idea, but I would much rather take a go at Lee than Hale, if we are gonna go with Ottawa. But thats just me. I think Lee has a higher upside, but has been underperforming, while Hale has always been kinda low end of the pack with NHL d-men, but has been consistent to that end. So, not saying he is good, but he has been doing his job i guess. Lee just screams "I need a new setting" and Carolina is good at getting guys like that.

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Old
11-22-2010, 05:40 PM
  #46
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Speaking of Brian Lee, who is the CHILD in his photo: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...Xh1SVT8v5ivLYF

Also, is Lee really what we need at this point? Seems like we have a bunch of players of his style on our roster and in the system. Not that I would turn him down if we could do O'Sullivan for him straight up...

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Old
11-22-2010, 05:45 PM
  #47
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I don't think the kid ever had a chance here. Hopefully he goes to a team that is seriously lacking in offensive talent where he can be put into a scoring role

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11-22-2010, 06:08 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
I know I wasn't asked, but I will kick in an opinion anyways. I would look towards bottom pairing defensive minded defenders or players that have worn out their welcome in other locations but have a history of solid play. David Hale is actually a guy that has had rumors swirling about him. I don't know if Ottawa needs a player of O'Sullivan's ilk, but he'd be a JR kind of target. Ottawa could possibly want a defender back in the deal and it wouldn't shock me if something like David Hale and a low round pick for O'Sullivan and Carson/Borer came to fruition. Ottawa would send Hale to bingo but they're worried he'd be claimed. So while he's up with Ottawa, Brian Lee has been sitting some nights. Having guys that can easily go up and down between bingo and Ottawa the way Carson does here would be a nice luxury for them.
I don't think Hale would be available. He's playing tonight because Karlsson has the flu/is playing poorly. Hale has actually made quite a good impression in Ottawa, just a solid, no-nonsense defender. Ottawa needs this, badly.

You can have Lee... He's so bad it's not even funny.

I honestly don't see Ottawa WANTING O'Sullivan at this point. The problem hasn't been scoring, it's been keeping the puck out of the net.

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Old
11-22-2010, 06:11 PM
  #49
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All this Tlusty/POS stuff baffles me. Neither one has lit the world on fire, but Tlusty has a one way deal and if he is waived and sent to Charlotte, he'll still be making an NHL salary. If POS is assigned to Charlotte, he's on a two way deal. Another team is more likely to pick up a marginal player on a two way deal than a one way.

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Old
11-22-2010, 06:49 PM
  #50
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The knock on POS has never been that he lacked talent, it is that he had a fragile mental make-up, and a poor work ethic. He did nothing in his time here to disprove any of that.

I can see people claiming he was never really given a chance, but at some point in your professional career, you need to grab the bull by the horns and make the most of the opportunity you've been given. If a guy needs to be spoon fed to succeed, then I say good riddance.

I sure will miss the comments about how Mo is an idiot for not playing a streaky, one way offensive, waiver wire pick-up, more, when we are 6th in the league in scoring, but 2nd to last in the league in goals against.

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