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What ever happened to David Fischer?

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Old
11-23-2010, 12:51 PM
  #26
sandman08
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he was picked a whopping 4 or 5 slots ahead of where he was ranked by central scouting if my memory serves me correctly.. it wasnt some kid no one had ever heard of, he was seen as having 1st round potential and a smooth skater with skill, the way some people around here talk about the pick you'd think the team drafted Taro Tsujimoto or something FFS

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11-23-2010, 12:58 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Just imagine Subban instead of Marshall.

Just imagine Gagner instead of VanRiemsdyk.

We can go on and on with it.
How long can we make excuses for Trevor's spotty drafting record?

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11-23-2010, 01:07 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
How long can we make excuses for Trevor's spotty drafting record?
Well, given that the drafting record of all NHL teams is spotty to begin with...

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11-23-2010, 01:31 PM
  #29
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He's playing chess with Bobby.

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11-23-2010, 01:52 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
These are second rounders. 50% pure luck.
Yet a million people ***** we should have taken Patrice Bergeron instead of Urquhart.

There is a part of luck in the first round too. For all we know if we drafted Giroux instead he could have catch some disease frolicking in Montreal that would have ruined his hockey career

A million thing can hurt or modify projected devellopment of players after they are drafted... chronic injuries (see Esposito), illness&health issues, death of family member, death (Luc Bourdon... RIP ), head not screwed as well as originally thought, head actually screwed better than originally thought (Getzlaf), ect... Professional scouts, even the best of them, do not possess powers of divination. Some players are picked later because of problems but they fix those (ex. Subban's defensive game). Some are picked earlier because some of their problems are not apparant yet. Fischer was a good player compared to his draft class but then he got sick and injured every year and his progression stagnated. This is sad but not unheard of. At least we got a 2nd rounder which is great return for a bust.

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11-23-2010, 02:46 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
How long can we make excuses for Trevor's spotty drafting record?
You serious? Timmins has drafted very well, I remember a Mathias Brunet blog where the stats show he is the best if not one of the best, can't remember exactly.

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11-23-2010, 03:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
he was picked a whopping 4 or 5 slots ahead of where he was ranked by central scouting if my memory serves me correctly.. it wasnt some kid no one had ever heard of, he was seen as having 1st round potential and a smooth skater with skill, the way some people around here talk about the pick you'd think the team drafted Taro Tsujimoto or something FFS
Except Columbus had him tagged as no draft for character reasons. You can assume other teams also had the same assessment given the overwhelming consensus that it was a bad pick. Habs and Timmins didn't do a thorough assessment on Fischer since it appears Columbus was spot on. Regardless, mistakes happen in draft, overall Timmins is solid.

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11-23-2010, 03:12 PM
  #33
SergeConstantin74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Except Columbus had him tagged as no draft for character reasons. You can assume other teams also had the same assessment given the overwhelming consensus that it was a bad pick. Habs and Timmins didn't do a thorough assessment on Fischer since it appears Columbus was spot on. Regardless, mistakes happen in draft, overall Timmins is solid.
I wonder why Columbus didn't use the same test when they drafted Stefan Legein...

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11-23-2010, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
How long can we make excuses for Trevor's spotty drafting record?
How long can you make excuses for your abysmal posts?

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11-23-2010, 03:29 PM
  #35
sandman08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habnot View Post
Except Columbus had him tagged as no draft for character reasons. You can assume other teams also had the same assessment given the overwhelming consensus that it was a bad pick. Habs and Timmins didn't do a thorough assessment on Fischer since it appears Columbus was spot on. Regardless, mistakes happen in draft, overall Timmins is solid.
im bored so i'll play devils advocate on this..

1. I'm going to assume the BJs assessment came out in the media somewhere in some form so what exactly were his character flaws?

2. Are the flaws simply ones related to maturity or something along those lines where a player can simply "out grow" or can overcome them with time given they grow up and all that (like getzlaf for example who was said to have attitude problems).

3. Given the age at which the interviews and all that took place, I'm curious as to when in the interview process the jackets and habs interviewed fischer, if one team went first and he was simply really nervous and the other later on and he seemed more calm/collected/etc it could sway opinion on him (this actually could work both ways for the record, if the first or earlier team interviews him and he's nervous enough it could "cover" for his cockiness which goes unnoticed or just attributed to his nervousness or by the time the later interview comes around he's learned to control/tone-down said cockiness or whatever).

4. I believe he ran into some injury troubles plus the loss of his mother (i think it was his mother at least), both of which obviously cant be assessed prior to the draft

5. You're making a rather broad assumption that Columbus' views were widely shared but I dont remember the backlash being THAT significant (if i remember correctly the price pick was more widely panned then the fischer one, and if you want to go that route, the chipchura pick was highly praised by a lot of folks).

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11-23-2010, 03:52 PM
  #36
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He looks kinda sad...

http://www.floridaeverblades.com/tea...?player_id=144


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11-23-2010, 05:05 PM
  #37
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Man timmins in GREAT for late round picking and TERRIBLE for 1rst rounders . Just wish that we could have 2 scouts instead of one . Someone for the 1rst round and timmins for the later rounds.

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11-23-2010, 05:42 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Man timmins in GREAT for late round picking and TERRIBLE for 1rst rounders . Just wish that we could have 2 scouts instead of one . Someone for the 1rst round and timmins for the later rounds.
You should just NEVER pick a kid that played High School hockey in the 1st round. It makes no sense. I know they are professionals, but how can scouts honestly take anything away from a High School hockey game? Look at the amount of players that actually became successful when playing in those kinds of leagues at the age of 17/18. Very very small number. Maybe take a flyer in the 2nd or 3rd round, but in the 1st? Stupid.

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Old
11-24-2010, 08:48 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandman08 View Post
im bored so i'll play devils advocate on this..

1. I'm going to assume the BJs assessment came out in the media somewhere in some form so what exactly were his character flaws?
2. Are the flaws simply ones related to maturity or something along those lines where a player can simply "out grow" or can overcome them with time given they grow up and all that (like getzlaf for example who was said to have attitude problems).

3. Given the age at which the interviews and all that took place, I'm curious as to when in the interview process the jackets and habs interviewed fischer, if one team went first and he was simply really nervous and the other later on and he seemed more calm/collected/etc it could sway opinion on him (this actually could work both ways for the record, if the first or earlier team interviews him and he's nervous enough it could "cover" for his cockiness which goes unnoticed or just attributed to his nervousness or by the time the later interview comes around he's learned to control/tone-down said cockiness or whatever).

4. I believe he ran into some injury troubles plus the loss of his mother (i think it was his mother at least), both of which obviously cant be assessed prior to the draft

5. You're making a rather broad assumption that Columbus' views were widely shared but I dont remember the backlash being THAT significant (if i remember correctly the price pick was more widely panned then the fischer one, and if you want to go that route, the chipchura pick was highly praised by a lot of folks).
The info regarding Fisher and the Jackets having him listed at a "No Draft" comes from Gare Joyce's book Future Greats and Heartbreaks. I can't remember the exact reseason as to why they had him listed as I read the book quite some time ago. That is where this info comes from. Not sure if they mentioned he was listed as "no draft" by other teams as well or if that was another player.

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Old
11-24-2010, 09:45 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Man timmins in GREAT for late round picking and TERRIBLE for 1rst rounders . Just wish that we could have 2 scouts instead of one . Someone for the 1rst round and timmins for the later rounds.
Sure, Fischer is a bust, but while Kostitsyn isn't the best forward from his class, but he's a NHL player and he's decent.

Price is now our star player and he's one of the best goaltender in the NHL so far this season.

Chipchura is playing in the NHL for the Ducks.

McDonagh almost made the Rangers this year and it looks like he'll be a NHL player too.

Pacioretty is having a great year in the AHL. Time will tell, but I think he'll have a role in the NHL.

LeBlanc mix of speed, skills and work ethic should be enough to land him a NHL job. How good he'll be? That's the question.

So TERRIBLE in the first round? No, not at all. Problem with people is that as soon as we don't get the best player available at our spot, people get mad. When we take a look at the past few drafts, we see many bust in the first round. Bottom line is we should be happy to have a NHL player out of the first round. It's at least a D...and not a F.

And think about it, sure the Ducks got Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry in the first round, but they also draft Mitera and McMillan.

So, out of 8 draft, Timmins got :

1 bust
3 official NHL player
4 highly rated prospects, but too soon to tell.

Not bad...

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Old
11-24-2010, 09:57 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Man timmins in GREAT for late round picking and TERRIBLE for 1rst rounders . Just wish that we could have 2 scouts instead of one . Someone for the 1rst round and timmins for the later rounds.
Yup, Carey Price is a huge flop

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11-24-2010, 12:08 PM
  #42
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The biggest issue i have with the Fischer pick is that we traded down to get him even though he probably would still have been available in the 2nd or even 3rd round. There was no rush to get that guy and yet we actually wasted a 1st on him.

We could have drafted Stewart , Giroux or Berglund and still get Fischer with our 2nd or even 3rd (i know people will disagree here but i do think he could still have been there in the 3rd).

I know hindsight is 20/20 but that was still a dumb move. Guys who play in some sub par American high school leagues shouldn't get drafted in 1st. Yeah he was Mr Hockey and all but completely unproven against decent competition. Just look at the guys who were drafted from those leagues. Almost none of them even played one game in the NHL. Sure those guys are often characterized as projects but still.

/rant

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Old
11-24-2010, 12:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I think he is trying out for battle of the blades.
To skate alongside with a hockey player?

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Old
11-24-2010, 12:25 PM
  #44
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Imagine Hugh Jessiman instead of Andrei Kostitsyn.

Oh wait,it doesn't work like that.

We should have drafted Crosby and Toews.

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11-24-2010, 12:37 PM
  #45
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meh.....Ryan Mcdonagh has 1 assist and is -6 in 21 games with the Hartford Wolfpack.....oops sorry.....the Connecticut Whale. Pavel Valentenko has a wonderful 3 points in 21 games with them as well. The sad thing is.....that puts them 2nd and 3rd in defenseman scoring on the team.....Go Wade Redden with 15 points!!!!

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Old
11-24-2010, 01:46 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Man timmins in GREAT for late round picking and TERRIBLE for 1rst rounders . Just wish that we could have 2 scouts instead of one . Someone for the 1rst round and timmins for the later rounds.
They have, like any other organizations, at least 6-10 scouts. Timmins is the Head scout, the boss of them all. The guy scouting in Minnesota is a very good seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yup, Carey Price is a huge flop
It doesn't take Einstein to draft Price ! He was the number 1 goalie to draft on every scout's lists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
Sure, Fischer is a bust, but while Kostitsyn isn't the best forward from his class, but he's a NHL player and he's decent.

Price is now our star player and he's one of the best goaltender in the NHL so far this season.

Chipchura is playing in the NHL for the Ducks.

McDonagh almost made the Rangers this year and it looks like he'll be a NHL player too.

Pacioretty is having a great year in the AHL. Time will tell, but I think he'll have a role in the NHL.

LeBlanc mix of speed, skills and work ethic should be enough to land him a NHL job. How good he'll be? That's the question.

So TERRIBLE in the first round? No, not at all. Problem with people is that as soon as we don't get the best player available at our spot, people get mad. When we take a look at the past few drafts, we see many bust in the first round. Bottom line is we should be happy to have a NHL player out of the first round. It's at least a D...and not a F.

And think about it, sure the Ducks got Ryan, Getzlaf and Perry in the first round, but they also draft Mitera and McMillan.

So, out of 8 draft, Timmins got :

1 bust
3 official NHL player
4 highly rated prospects, but too soon to tell.

Not bad...
Decent is not enough for a fist rounder- top-ten player. Especially with all the superstars drafted after him.

Chipchura is playing on a 4th line with a very ordinary team who got 5 good forwards and a bunch of castoffs. he is Jason Ward v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitants19 View Post
meh.....Ryan Mcdonagh has 1 assist and is -6 in 21 games with the Hartford Wolfpack.....oops sorry.....the Connecticut Whale. Pavel Valentenko has a wonderful 3 points in 21 games with them as well. The sad thing is.....that puts them 2nd and 3rd in defenseman scoring on the team.....Go Wade Redden with 15 points!!!!
McDonagh is really raw, but he's gonna be a good top-four down the line.
Valentenko is a hard-hitting, stay at home d-man. Next year we gonna have two even three huge holes to fill on the left side - Markov, Hamrlik and Gill are all UFA's


Last edited by habsprospects: 12-02-2010 at 01:45 PM.
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Old
11-24-2010, 02:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
McDonagh is really raw, but he's gonna be a good top-four down the line.
Valentenko is a hard-hitting, stay at home d-man. Next year we gonna have two even three huge holes to fill on the left side - Markov, Hamrlik and Gill are all UFA's
I'm sure we can sign both to affordable contracts for 1 or 2 more years if need be. They're both playing well this year.

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Old
11-24-2010, 02:55 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Imagine Gilbert Brule instead of Carey Price.
Halak is still with us and Brule's development could have gone differently. I mean, we keep hearing how if we would have picked Getzlaf, Carter or whoever, that it doesn't mean they would have had the same success.....Well same thing applies to the ones who struggled. A whole lot of Blue Jackets kids didn't succeed right away thanks to Hitchcock. Nothing suggest Brule would have become the player he was suppose to become.

The idea is that if you're suppose to go with the BPA, like everybody talks about, you go with the BPA. Timmins already talked about going for needs there. Which is kinda crazy 'cause even if you for needs, wouldn't you go for a safer pick who actually has a chance to reach the NHL compared to a guy who was known as a boom or bust pick? Was coming in this draft as raw as you can get. So even if you go with needs, that pick wasn't a good one.

Strange that some people still defend THE PICK, it was already meantioned by the Habs organization as a mistake. I mean, Timmins record, we can all discuss about it. But stop defending the pick based on the record. The pick is what is talked about here. And it was mostly wrong based on the strategy.

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Old
11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
  #49
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I remember reading from a few different sources that he did not interview very well. Not just because of his immaturity, but also his approach to training and attitude. He was a skinny kid from high school, not physical, no shot to speak of (still doesn't have one), and played like he was 150 lbs. I didn't like the pick back then, and the non-signing just confirms what I had researched.
I do like Timmins picks after the 1st round for the most part, but he has had some difficulty getting that gem. I do realise that sometimes it isn't a slam dunk, but getting an impact player (not just 3rd/4th liner or bottom pairing NHL'er) out of every 4/5 picks is not unreasonable.
I especially do not like his supporters comparing picks to other teams with poor scouting, I would rather compare to the better ones. A lot of teams have crappy scouting, doesn't mean that we should compare to them to justify his errors. I would like to think that as he sees the guys he decided not to take succeed, he would look back and review his assessments of those players and learn where his criteria let him down. Correct and improve on future selections. I wonder how long they are going to let him continue with so many or their scouts (his staff) being dumped in the offseason (quite a few if I recall, with his being alone at the draft from the scouting dept).

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Old
11-24-2010, 04:53 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
It doesn't take Einstein to draft Price ! He was the number 1 goalie to draft on every scout's lists.
But he could have chosen Skille or Brule...so he was still right by putting Price in front of quite a few underachiever...

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