HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Lets talk Goaltending or the "would you ever trade Hank" thread?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-22-2010, 09:55 AM
  #1
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Lets talk Goaltending or the "would you ever trade Hank" thread?

ok, so ive committed blasphemy with this thread bit once you get over the initial knee jerk reaction, the question remains.

would you ?

imagine the package we could get in return ? #1 pick (s) and/or a bonafide stud scorer(s). would that package be enough to warrant that move right now?

chad johnson-2010-11 Regular Season Hartford Wolf Pack 16 42 933 393 2.70 0.903 10 0 1 2 6 0.667 0 0

and scott stajcer-2010-11 Regular Season Owen Sound Attack 14 38 782 347 2.91 0.901 10 3 0 0 1 1

and to a lesser extent cam talbot all seem to have talent but are they future #1's ?

could biron carry the load in a rebuilding year or even 2 years until one of the kids is ready ?

could we win without henrik lundqvist ?

discuss.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 09:57 AM
  #2
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
ok, so ive committed blasphemy with this thread bit once you get over the initial knee jerk reaction, the question remains.

would you ?

imagine the package we could get in return ? #1 pick (s) and/or a bonafide stud scorer(s). would that package be enough to warrant that move right now?
Goalies don't get that kind of return. Look back at the Luongo trade. They didn't get anything close to that.

Goalies just don't fetch much in trades. There's also a salary cap.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:02 AM
  #3
asparkoflife
Registered User
 
asparkoflife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Patterson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 500
Stajcer started really hot and has cooled off a ton.

Johnson hasn't looked fantastic in the A, neither has Talbot.

Hank is a top 5 goaltender in the league. SOOO.

no.

asparkoflife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:03 AM
  #4
FOXHOUND*
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Woodside, Queens
Country: United States
Posts: 3,507
vCash: 500
No way in hell. Typical HFBoards thread.

FOXHOUND* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:05 AM
  #5
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,428
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Goalies don't get that kind of return. Look back at the Luongo trade. They didn't get anything close to that.

Goalies just don't fetch much in trades. There's also a salary cap.
This.

Everyone is available for a price, but history shows that no one will party the price I'd want for Hank

azrok22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:06 AM
  #6
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
No way in hell. Typical HFBoards thread.
theres a big difference between saying trade him and discussing the pros and cons of trading him.

hypothetically, there is a difference. please tell me you know that.

im interested in hearing both sides.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:07 AM
  #7
pwoz
Registered User
 
pwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,467
vCash: 500
For Ovechkin or Stamkos yes... but not when they're 35.

pwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:07 AM
  #8
JeffMangum
Ra shi da
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 55,163
vCash: 300
If we had a Bernier/Markstrom/Lehner in the system, I might consider it. But since we don't, no.

__________________

#TannerGlass2014
SEEN YOUR VIDEO!
#SheWentToHarvard
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:09 AM
  #9
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,092
vCash: 500
Desperate teams will give more than you think for an elite goalie.

A team like NJ in a season or 2 will be in need for a goalie. Usually the bonafide starters are locked up by their respective clubs and there isn't a market for goaltending. Teams try to address the problem via drafting.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:10 AM
  #10
asparkoflife
Registered User
 
asparkoflife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Patterson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 500
This is just lunacy. Last week everyone was calling Hank the best goalie in the league. Now 6 days later we have a "would we trade hank?" thread.

asparkoflife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:12 AM
  #11
Wraparounds
Powerful Wizard
 
Wraparounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,381
vCash: 500
Nein.

The return for him isn't what you would expect. Plus we have nothing in our prospect pool remotely close to replacing him. So...

Nein.

Wraparounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:18 AM
  #12
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by playstationline View Post
This is just lunacy. Last week everyone was calling Hank the best goalie in the league. Now 6 days later we have a "would we trade hank?" thread.

this is a "would you ever trade hank" thread so it is purely hypothetical but should be something that we can discuss.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:19 AM
  #13
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Goalies don't get that kind of return. Look back at the Luongo trade. They didn't get anything close to that.

Goalies just don't fetch much in trades. There's also a salary cap.
Bingo. The loss of Lundqvist would outweigh the return in almost any realistic scenario.

If we had a blue chipper nipping at his heels I might consider it, but we don't have a guy in the system who has proven he could replace him. The alternative would be to go out and try and pluck a guy like Cory Schneider from Vancouver, but it's risky to hedge your bets on someone else's prospect.

He's also the highest paid goalie in the league, so you're going to have some serious issues finding a team to take on that contract.

Who wants to bet that this thread will end up as an Eklund rumor?

"Rangers to offer Lundqvist for Richards and Lehtonen?!?!"

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:21 AM
  #14
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Bingo. The loss of Lundqvist would outweigh the return in almost any realistic scenario.

If we had a blue chipper nipping at his heels I might consider it, but we don't have a guy in the system who has proven he could replace him. The alternative would be to go out and try and pluck a guy like Cory Schneider from Vancouver, but it's risky to hedge your bets on someone else's prospect.

He's also the highest paid goalie in the league, so you're going to have some serious issues finding a team to take on that contract.

Who wants to bet that this thread will end up as an Eklund rumor?

"Rangers to offer Lundqvist for Richards and Lehtonen?!?!"
Especially now when the need for an elite goalie seems to be one of great debate these days. Especially when the two goalies in the finals were Leighton and Niemi and the Hawks walked away from the arbitration ruling on their cup winning goalie.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:24 AM
  #15
asparkoflife
Registered User
 
asparkoflife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Patterson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
this is a "would you ever trade hank" thread so it is purely hypothetical but should be something that we can discuss.
So this was predetermined to be made today? If hank was playing like he was last week I would imagine this thread isn't here right now. So maybe it's not purely related to his play right now, but im sure it has something to do with it.

asparkoflife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:24 AM
  #16
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Especially now when the need for an elite goalie seems to be one of great debate these days. Especially when the two goalies in the finals were Leighton and Niemi and the Hawks walked away from the arbitration ruling on their cup winning goalie.
so you are saying that goaltending doesnt matter that much then ?

teams can win with high end offensive/defensive talent and just so-so talent in net...

we seem to be that team with so-so o/d talent and a high end keeper.

is that recipe not the correct one ?

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:27 AM
  #17
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
so you are saying that goaltending doesnt matter that much then ?

teams can win with high end offensive/defensive talent and just so-so talent in net...

we seem to be that team with so-so o/d talent and a high end keeper.

is that recipe not the correct one ?
It seems to me the school of thought changes whenever there's a new Cup winner.

I'm really not sure what the correct recipe is. The Devils one multiple Cups with an elite goalie and the Red Wings won Cups with Chris Osgood.

When it comes to goaltending there's a seemingly irrational disconnect. Everyone says that it's the most important position on the ice — yet they don't seem to fetch much on the trade market.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:31 AM
  #18
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 8,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It seems to me the school of thought changes whenever there's a new Cup winner.

I'm really not sure what the correct recipe is. The Devils one multiple Cups with an elite goalie and the Red Wings won Cups with Chris Osgood.

When it comes to goaltending there's a seemingly irrational disconnect. Everyone says that it's the most important position on the ice yet they don't seem to fetch much on the trade market.
wouldnt teams like washington or phily be perrenial cup winners with hank or would they not be appreciably better ?

if they had to move some talent in a trade or for cap reasons, you could argue that they may not have a net increase in success.

this is a really interesting discussion though.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:35 AM
  #19
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wouldnt teams like washington or phily be perrenial cup winners with hank or would they not be appreciably better ?

if they had to move some talent in a trade or for cap reasons, you could argue that they may not have a net increase in success.

this is a really interesting discussion though.
I really don't have an answer to that. Conventional wisdom would be that if the Flyers had had a legit top goaltender, they would have won a Cup in the last 20 years.

It seems to me the cap forces teams into committing to an elite goalie or to taking the money an elite goalie would make and spreading that out throughout the lineup.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:44 AM
  #20
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,553
vCash: 500
Would have to look at the return. Unless it's a disgusting overpayment, I wouldn't move Hank for any combination of Picks/Prospects. Honestly, unless we're talking about AO, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, etc, I would probably pass.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:46 AM
  #21
Thordic
StraightOuttaConklin
 
Thordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kearny, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 1,900
vCash: 822
Would I trade Hank? No. Like everyone has said, we don't have anyone in the system who comes even close to being able to replace him.

At the same time, you can make an arguement that elite goaltending is less important due to current systems. But that doesn't mean you trade Hank, because we don't even have a 2nd tier starter to replace him with.

Thordic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:50 AM
  #22
Riche16
Pessimistic-Realist
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,436
vCash: 500
This shouldn't take long...

No. I wouldn't.

Trade him and you open a GAPPING WHOLE IN OUR TEAM CONCEPT. One that may take a decade or more to fill.

Riche16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:55 AM
  #23
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
This shouldn't take long...

No. I wouldn't.

Trade him and you open a GAPPING WHOLE IN OUR TEAM CONCEPT. One that may take a decade or more to fill.
See that's the thing: I'm still not sure what our team concept is. One would think that with an elite goalie, you would be playing a defense first system. And to that you would surround you elite goalie with excellent defensive defensemen. And I don't think you can say that the Rangers have done that (save Staal and Girardi).

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 10:56 AM
  #24
Riche16
Pessimistic-Realist
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
so you are saying that goaltending doesnt matter that much then ?

teams can win with high end offensive/defensive talent and just so-so talent in net...

we seem to be that team with so-so o/d talent and a high end keeper.

is that recipe not the correct one ?
As long as that talent gets HOT at the right time... yes.

You have a way better chance of Hank getting to that temp. than you do almost any other (save for the other 5 elite goalies in the league) goalie.

Riche16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-22-2010, 11:07 AM
  #25
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
wouldnt teams like washington or phily be perrenial cup winners with hank or would they not be appreciably better ?

if they had to move some talent in a trade or for cap reasons, you could argue that they may not have a net increase in success.

this is a really interesting discussion though.
Where does that money come from though? Can they field the same kind of team with a $6.75MM Lundqvist on the books? Clearly some sacrifices would have to be made -- probably Semin.

You've basically traded 35+ goals for a top-3 goaltender. It changes the team dynamic significantly.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.