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Kovalev passes 1000 point milestone to HOF

View Poll Results: Could we win in 94 without Kovy?
Sorry, I was too young in 1994 12 16.44%
He was a contributor of critical importance 53 72.60%
We had enough talent to win without him 8 10.96%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-24-2010, 01:30 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
because without him, we'd have the New Jersey Devils being 4 time Stanley Cup Champions and the NY Rangers in a 70 year Cup drought. But let's make pretend that the Rangers would have somehow won Game 6 without him.
That's fine. You don't have to LIKE the guy. I can fully admit he was a big part in our Cup run. I still despise him and think he's a me first ******* who didn't deserve to wear the jersey his second time through.

You don't have to like someone to respect what they did. Don't know why you'd even think something like that.

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11-24-2010, 01:36 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Steve Larmer*
Dale Hunter
Brian Bellows*
Pat Verbeek*
Joe Nieuwendyk*
Doug Gilmour*
Adam Oates
Phil Housley
This is not about whether Kovalev gets into HOF.

I think all on your list belong. Lacking Cup ring may be a problem. Kovalev is an historical fugue, though. First Russian in many things. That fact not only may help, it most certainly will. I don't care about NHL, though. I am not a NHL fan.

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11-24-2010, 01:52 PM
  #28
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For anyone who voted "We had enough talent to win without him" go back and look at the scoring sheet on game six against the Devils. It's the famous game where Messier proclaimed victory and scored a natural Hat Trick. There's an important fact that I'll let you all in on. Kovaliev scored the 1st goal in that game and assisted on 2 of Messier's goals. Still don't think he's important?

Without Kovaliev, NYR lose that game and Messier doesn't do what he did because he didn't do it alone.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxs...405250NJD.html

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11-24-2010, 01:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
This is not about whether Kovalev gets into HOF.

I think all on your list belong. Lacking Cup ring may be a problem. Kovalev is an historical fugue, though. First Russian in many things. That fact not only may help, it most certainly will. I don't care about NHL, though. I am not a NHL fan.
Well, so much for you being on here, and wasting time writing up 5,000+ posts. That certainly explains a lot.

And it IS about Kovalev being in the HOF, because you wrote as such in your thread title.

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11-24-2010, 01:55 PM
  #30
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The thing about Kovy (one of my all time favorite Rangers) is that if you took his stats and career and applied them to another player, say a hard-working winger or an overachiever, you would say yes, certainly in th HOF.

What will prevent him from being selected is the fact that he could have been so much more; that he was a bit of an underachiever, and always an enigma. I'll always be baffled by what happened during his second stint with the team.

He has had a remarkable career in many ways. After Brian Leetch, you can make the case that he has had the best career of any Ranger player selected in the 1st round (including all his stops along the way).

As for 94, he was a vital part of the team. The move that won game 6 (aside from the iron will of #11) was Keenan moving Kovy to the line with Mess and Graves. Kovy's speed opened up the game, put pressure on, and eventually broke down the Dev's defense.

HOF stats: yes. HOF worthy: no. A key part of 94: absolutely. I've enjoyed watching him play all these years. Say what you want about him: his sheer talent will not easily be forgotten.

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11-24-2010, 02:59 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
The thing about Kovy (one of my all time favorite Rangers) is that if you took his stats and career and applied them to another player, say a hard-working winger or an overachiever, you would say yes, certainly in th HOF.

What will prevent him from being selected is the fact that he could have been so much more; that he was a bit of an underachiever, and always an enigma. I'll always be baffled by what happened during his second stint with the team.

He has had a remarkable career in many ways. After Brian Leetch, you can make the case that he has had the best career of any Ranger player selected in the 1st round (including all his stops along the way).

As for 94, he was a vital part of the team. The move that won game 6 (aside from the iron will of #11) was Keenan moving Kovy to the line with Mess and Graves. Kovy's speed opened up the game, put pressure on, and eventually broke down the Dev's defense.

HOF stats: yes. HOF worthy: no. A key part of 94: absolutely. I've enjoyed watching him play all these years. Say what you want about him: his sheer talent will not easily be forgotten.
Brad Park and Rick Middleton were pretty good picks as well!

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11-24-2010, 03:17 PM
  #32
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Well, so much for you being on here, and wasting time writing up 5,000+ posts. That certainly explains a lot..
I am Ranger fan, I do not care about political correctness NHL has chosen to adopt over the years. That's what I meant.

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Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
And it IS about Kovalev being in the HOF, because you wrote as such in your thread title.
I screwed up with title as well as Leetch comment. Cannot change the title. But it provoked a discussion.

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11-24-2010, 03:35 PM
  #33
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Kovy was a big part of our success in '94 and that should never be denied. In his time as a Ranger, he was a headache during the regular reason but focussed in the playoffs.

Kovy has had a good career, and he should be proud. If he ever gets to the Hall of Fame, though, it'd be a sham. Loffen deserves to be in the HoF for his videos more than Kovy deserves to be there for his achievements as a player.

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11-24-2010, 03:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
The thing about Kovy (one of my all time favorite Rangers) is that if you took his stats and career and applied them to another player, say a hard-working winger or an overachiever, you would say yes, certainly in th HOF.

What will prevent him from being selected is the fact that he could have been so much more; that he was a bit of an underachiever, and always an enigma. I'll always be baffled by what happened during his second stint with the team.

He has had a remarkable career in many ways. After Brian Leetch, you can make the case that he has had the best career of any Ranger player selected in the 1st round (including all his stops along the way).

As for 94, he was a vital part of the team. The move that won game 6 (aside from the iron will of #11) was Keenan moving Kovy to the line with Mess and Graves. Kovy's speed opened up the game, put pressure on, and eventually broke down the Dev's defense.

HOF stats: yes. HOF worthy: no. A key part of 94: absolutely. I've enjoyed watching him play all these years. Say what you want about him: his sheer talent will not easily be forgotten.
as I stated earlier in the the thread, outside of the bottom line 1000 pt stat (which again, isnt a concrete hall of fame number) how are his numbers hall of fame worthy? His relative longevity helped, but he never threatened for scoring titles or awards, was only top 10 in points once and top 10 in goals twice. With no defensive aspect to his game, those are not hall of fame numbers for a scorer

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11-24-2010, 03:38 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I screwed up with title as well as Leetch comment. Cannot change the title. But it provoked a discussion.
Hey, we're all here for debate and discussion, right?

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Old
11-24-2010, 03:56 PM
  #36
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Kovalev was a huge part of the 1994 cup. Anyone saying otherwise is being ignorant or biased.

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Old
11-24-2010, 04:20 PM
  #37
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He's no HOFer. He was a big part of the Cup run though.

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Old
11-24-2010, 05:40 PM
  #38
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Well, considering I was 2 months old when the Rangers won the Cup I really can't say either way.

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11-24-2010, 06:06 PM
  #39
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Not a Hall of Fame player in my opinion, but he was a key member of the Cup team.

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Old
11-24-2010, 06:28 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
Here's the flaws:

Top 10 in points once, goals twice: for a guy whose contributions are on offense, thats unimpressive.

1 NHL All 2nd Team ('08)

Point per game player 3 times (short by a point once). Again, unimpressive for a player who only brought offense.

1,000 pts itself is no guarantee. guys with 1000+ that arent in include (this isn't everybody, just a sampling, and not counting people who haven't reached eligibility yet) Those who have at least 1 cup like kovalev have an asterisk

Steve Larmer*
Dale Hunter
Brian Bellows*
Pat Verbeek*
Joe Nieuwendyk*
Doug Gilmour*
Adam Oates
Phil Housley
This is the Hockey Hall Of Fame, not the NHL Hall Of Fame.

WJC Gold + 2 silver

Kovy is an Olympic gold winner and has a Bronze as well

Three time NHL All-Star, once MVP in the AS game

First russian to with the Cup

First russian drafted in the first round of the draft

First russian to captain an All-Star team

400+ goals, 500+ assists, 1,000+ points.

Almost 20 years in the NHL

How is this not a HOF career?

If that doesn't do it watch his Youtube instruction videos. WOW

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11-24-2010, 06:34 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
Not a Hall of Fame player in my opinion, but he was a key member of the Cup team.
Just curious what does a russian born player have to do to make it in the HOF in your opinion?

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11-24-2010, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
as I stated earlier in the the thread, outside of the bottom line 1000 pt stat (which again, isnt a concrete hall of fame number) how are his numbers hall of fame worthy? His relative longevity helped, but he never threatened for scoring titles or awards, was only top 10 in points once and top 10 in goals twice. With no defensive aspect to his game, those are not hall of fame numbers for a scorer
Again you guys are basing this just on his NHL play. When Richter retired people knew his NHL play alone might not get him in, but his work for team USA should put him over the top, why isn't the same true for AK27 and his international play? He is going into the HOF I am sure of it.

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11-24-2010, 07:04 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
This is the Hockey Hall Of Fame, not the NHL Hall Of Fame.

WJC Gold + 2 silver

Kovy is an Olympic gold winner and has a Bronze as well

Three time NHL All-Star, once MVP in the AS game

First russian to with the Cup

First russian drafted in the first round of the draft

First russian to captain an All-Star team

400+ goals, 500+ assists, 1,000+ points.

Almost 20 years in the NHL

How is this not a HOF career?

If that doesn't do it watch his Youtube instruction videos. WOW
None of that is HOF material. No hardware, 1 40-goal season, no 100 point seasons, no 1st team NHL All-Star. Richter was the goalie on the World Cup gold medal team...different yardstick than as a skater (unless you're a captain.)

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11-24-2010, 07:13 PM
  #44
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None of that is HOF material. No hardware, 1 40-goal season, no 100 point seasons, no 1st team NHL All-Star. Richter was the goalie on the World Cup gold medal team...different yardstick than as a skater (unless you're a captain.)
No Hardware?

I wish I had a room where I could show of that I won the only cup in New York for the first time in 100 years and I was the first russian ever on it. That ring would be best hardware I could imagine.

Olympic gold isn't hardware? Lets ask 100 NHL players what they would be more proud of. An Olympic gold medal (plus broze) or some NHL award.

I'm pretty sure Olympic gold trumps World Cup gold also on the list.

Stepan looked pretty darn proud of his hardware last christmas with his WJC gold. Kovy has one of them too. Plus two silver

Oh and he has a really nice truck from that All-Star MVP. Thats hardware

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11-24-2010, 07:18 PM
  #45
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lol kovalev gets one more point and is suddenly a HOF? was he not one in ur eyes at 999 but now cuz hes got 1000 he is? kovalev was never a top 10 player in the game IMO and he never played to his fullest potential besides one year in pittsburgh before mario came out of retirement.

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11-24-2010, 07:25 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
lol kovalev gets one more point and is suddenly a HOF? was he not one in ur eyes at 999 but now cuz hes got 1000 he is? kovalev was never a top 10 player in the game IMO and he never played to his fullest potential besides one year in pittsburgh before mario came out of retirement.
Once again, this is the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Not the NHL Hall of Fame.

You put his international play with his NHL numers I don't see how people can argue he isn't worthy. By my count only two russian born NHL players have more points than Kovy, both are not in the NHL anymore and he's going to pass one of them this season.

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11-24-2010, 07:29 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Again you guys are basing this just on his NHL play. When Richter retired people knew his NHL play alone might not get him in, but his work for team USA should put him over the top, why isn't the same true for AK27 and his international play? He is going into the HOF I am sure of it.
The HHOF is notorious for emphasizing NHL accomplishments over all else. You can argue with us about it and make a strong case, but we're not doing the selections. I have a hard time believing the selection committee will give Kovalev the nod. I'd say it's 50/50 right now, at absolute best.

And I'd be pissed if Kovalev got in before Dale Hunter.

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11-24-2010, 07:33 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
The thing about Kovy (one of my all time favorite Rangers) is that if you took his stats and career and applied them to another player, say a hard-working winger or an overachiever, you would say yes, certainly in th HOF.

What will prevent him from being selected is the fact that he could have been so much more; that he was a bit of an underachiever, and always an enigma. I'll always be baffled by what happened during his second stint with the team.

He has had a remarkable career in many ways. After Brian Leetch, you can make the case that he has had the best career of any Ranger player selected in the 1st round (including all his stops along the way).

As for 94, he was a vital part of the team. The move that won game 6 (aside from the iron will of #11) was Keenan moving Kovy to the line with Mess and Graves. Kovy's speed opened up the game, put pressure on, and eventually broke down the Dev's defense.

HOF stats: yes. HOF worthy: no. A key part of 94: absolutely. I've enjoyed watching him play all these years. Say what you want about him: his sheer talent will not easily be forgotten.
Agreed, couldn't say it any better.

My post from another thread:

I'll never forget watching him play his first season in North America with Binghamton and the big club. One game against the Caps then AHL team the Baltimore Skipjacks(Slaney, Konawalchuk, Klee, Dafoe, Woolley,Keith Jones), I saw Kovalev make one of the best passes I've ever seen live or anywhere else.

December 1992 I believe it was, just happened to be sitting next to Neil Smith and Larry Pleau high up in the cheap seats, we watched the Bignhamton squad go on the power play 5 minutes into the game. Faceoff was won back to fellow Russian rookie Sergei Zubov, he passed to Kovalev on the right side boards, top of the circle. Alex glided towards the center ice looking at the blueline like he was about to pass it back to Zubov, but instead passed it across ice diagonally through the Baltimore box of 4 PK'ers and right onto teammate Craig Duncanson's stick and into the net. Everyone, the players, the officials, the benches, the fans all stopped for a good 3 seconds before everyone knew what had happened. He literally froze the whole building with that pass. Even Duncanson had a look of shock on his face that he just scored from that magnificent pass, he never saw it, just had his stick on the ice. Alex was all of 20 years old.

Congrats AK !

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11-24-2010, 07:48 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
lol kovalev gets one more point and is suddenly a HOF? was he not one in ur eyes at 999 but now cuz hes got 1000 he is? kovalev was never a top 10 player in the game IMO and he never played to his fullest potential besides one year in pittsburgh before mario came out of retirement.
It was not about whether he is HOF material or not

Okay, since it is already out of hands let me make a few points:

1. HOF is not Hockey Hall of Fame as they try to claim. What we have in Toronto is NHL HOF. The discussion on this thread proves that only contribution to NHL is considered by majority of posters. I agree with that approach.
2. Furthermore, there is IIHF HOF and there is absolutely no need to duplicate it. That is where female skaters belong, that is where international competition and associated hardware won should count, that is where Olympics, Words and WJC medals should be considered. Kovalev is there already long ago and no 1000 NHL point pass was needed.

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11-24-2010, 07:57 PM
  #50
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Kovalev is not HOF quality.

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It was not about whether he is HOF material or not
it's in your title.

edit: to me, unless you have done something else that is extraordinary, 1000 pts is a minimum requirement. at least in modern times. defensemen get a break in this regard.

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