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Valabik or Green?

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06-18-2004, 07:58 AM
  #1
True Blue
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Valabik or Green?

IT's pick #24 time. Which is the better choice? I doubt that both will be available, but hopefully one will fall to us at that spot. Anyone have preference of one or the other?

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06-18-2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
IT's pick #24 time. Which is the better choice? I doubt that both will be available, but hopefully one will fall to us at that spot. Anyone have preference of one or the other?
I would go with Valabik, because Green is somewhat similar to many of our young defensemen (Pock, Kondratiev, Tyutin) Valabik might be more risky, not sure if he is a boom or bust, but I think it could be worth a shot getting a huge mean physical defenseman.

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06-18-2004, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I would go with Valabik, because Green is somewhat similar to many of our young defensemen (Pock, Kondratiev, Tyutin) Valabik might be more risky, not sure if he is a boom or bust, but I think it could be worth a shot getting a huge mean physical defenseman.
Like Prucha, I would go with Valabik. I would love to have his size on our blue line. It's been awhile since we had someone who could clear out the crease. He is a bit of a project and needs help with his skating but he would be a great addition though i would by no means be disappointed at all if we somehow ended up with Green.

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06-18-2004, 08:50 AM
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Valibak=Chara

VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!! VALIBAK!!!VALIBAK!!!

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06-18-2004, 08:59 AM
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I would go with Valabik without a doubt! But I think he will be gone by 18

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06-18-2004, 09:03 AM
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I'm a Green man. I think he's going to a #2 or #3 defenseman in the league in his prime and is a reasonably safe bet to be a player even if he doesn't reach that level. I have him at #9 on my draft list. Valabik on the other hand, though he may end up being a real stud, probably has a longer incubation time in front of him and a greater chance of busting. Green's upside is too high to dismiss, while at the same time he's a very safe guy. He has a bright future ahead of him.

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06-18-2004, 10:16 AM
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I think at this point i'd take the safer between the two Mike Green. I like Valabik alot, but if Green's there, he's the one i'd go with.

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06-18-2004, 10:33 AM
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Mike Green

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06-18-2004, 10:52 AM
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I've been a Green fan for a while. I'd go with Green all the way. For some reason, I just can't get excited about Valabik. I've heard that he's incredibly slow; not just skating but also in terms of how he digests a play, reacts to what's happening on ice, etc.

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06-18-2004, 11:05 AM
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Green...

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06-18-2004, 11:15 AM
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I think Mike Green would be a very nice compliment for Pock on the 2nd pairing. He is also the captain of his team which means that his leadership skills are probably good. We currently have a glut of Euro's so I think adding a tough NA player would be a fine addition.

Once again: Green.

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06-18-2004, 01:12 PM
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I'm no expert on these guys, haven't seen any of them play, but I'd go with Green. I like Valabik alot and he certainly has the potential to be one big mean Beukeboom-type defensive machine. But the skating is just too big of an issue. If he pans out, he could be a gem. But IMHO, it sounds like he has a much higher chance of becoming the next Hal Gill than the next Zdeno Chara.

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06-18-2004, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
Taking Valabik or Green would be a terrible move after I thought about it. I was looking at Valbik also earlier at this spot. However, what the heck are the chances that some big, dumb, gangly, dope, will turn out to be another Chara. He is more likely to end up Eric Cairns. Green like Valbik has good upside. Defense is the second to last priority we need on this team with our first 4 picks. We need offense, offense and more offense. You DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TAKE A DEFENSEMAN IN OUR FIRST FOUR PICKS! I am very confident in our defensive future as is now. With Tjutin, Kondratiev, Liffiton and Beranka we have some very tough, skilled, defenseman. Lampman is very smart. Taylor, Guenin and Potter all have accomplished a lot already on the college level and Potter was huge on the WJC USA team.
Best Player Available! Best Player Available! Best Player Available! Best Player Available!

People we draft now are probably two years away from being NHL players at least. We do not know what our "needs" will be in two to three years. We don't know if Tjutin, Kondratieve, Liffiton, et al. will even emerge as consistent NHL players. That's why you draft the best player available. If we turn out to have 6 or 7 NHL-ready young defensemen and can't put them all on the roster, we have the opportunity to make trades from a position of strength to meet our needs at a later time.

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06-18-2004, 03:48 PM
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Kubera55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
I don't agree with the best player available strategy this year.
All due respect, but you couldn't be wronger if your name was Wrongy Wrongenstein. (A Penn and Teller quote).

It's ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, best player available. Anything else is just foolish.

You have that much faith in the Rangers prospects on defense? Why? There isn't one guy in the bunch who was a first round pick, much more or less a top 15 pick. There are only two who've even made it to the AHL level so far (Tjutin and Lampman) and only one who's played well at that level. Pock's interesting, but I'm not interested in betting the next ten years of the Rangers future on 6 garbage games played by an undersized 22-year-old. The rest? They have nice scouting reports. So did Mike Mottau. So did Matt Kinch. So did Pat Aufiero. So did Martin Richter. So did a million other names that have trucked their way through the AHL over the last ten to twenty years, who never even came close to making it as an impact player in the NHL.

As said previously in this thread, and countless others, you do not draft for today in the NHL entry draft. Mr. No-6-Overall isn't likely to play for the Rangers (even assuming there is no lockout) for two to three years. In that time, Tom Poti or Karel Rachunek will likely be traded. Darius Kasparitius will turn 33. Dale Purinton will turn 30. The Rangers will be in crying, desperate, on their knees begging for, decent defensemen by that time (and it's not like they are flush today). Do they have a host of impact defensemen coming up? Really?

What if Fedor Tjutin blows out his knee tomorrow (Cherneski)? Or decides he likes Russia better than the States? Or any of a host of other crap that can happen. And it's not like Kondraitev and Baranka are Dion Phaneuf and Gary Suter you know. They're barely battle tested, and neither one of them would be listed as a 'blue-chipper' by anyone other than a Rangers fan.

Best Player Available.
Best Player Available.
Best Player Available.

This concludes todays rant.

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06-18-2004, 03:55 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
IT's pick #24 time. Which is the better choice? I doubt that both will be available, but hopefully one will fall to us at that spot. Anyone have preference of one or the other?
Kyril Lyamin.

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06-18-2004, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
Dale Purinton will turn 30.
Out of your entire rant this is the only part I will comment on... please never ever ever reference Purinton when talking about people who will help us during the rebuild or be part of our defensive core. Next thing you know we will have Pilon back on our roster!

Oh and as a side note, Dale, if you read this board, I am really a fan, please don't kill me.

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06-18-2004, 04:08 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubera55
All due respect, but you couldn't be wronger if your name was Wrongy Wrongenstein. (A Penn and Teller quote).

It's ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, best player available. Anything else is just foolish.

You have that much faith in the Rangers prospects on defense? Why? There isn't one guy in the bunch who was a first round pick, much more or less a top 15 pick. There are only two who've even made it to the AHL level so far (Tjutin and Lampman) and only one who's played well at that level. Pock's interesting, but I'm not interested in betting the next ten years of the Rangers future on 6 garbage games played by an undersized 22-year-old. The rest? They have nice scouting reports. So did Mike Mottau. So did Matt Kinch. So did Pat Aufiero. So did Martin Richter. So did a million other names that have trucked their way through the AHL over the last ten to twenty years, who never even came close to making it as an impact player in the NHL.
Why do they have to be 1st round picks or top 15 picks to be good defensemen?

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06-18-2004, 04:16 PM
  #18
Kubera55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt13
Out of your entire rant this is the only part I will comment on... please never ever ever reference Purinton when talking about people who will help us during the rebuild or be part of our defensive core. Next thing you know we will have Pilon back on our roster!

Oh and as a side note, Dale, if you read this board, I am really a fan, please don't kill me.
Blue, don't you realize that I included Dale for exactly the reason? For godsakes, he's the team's fourth best defenseman! (Poti, Rachunek, Kaspar, Dale).

Yes, yes, yes, we're all totally positively sure that Tjutin will pass Dale (assuming an Anvil doesn't fall on Tjutin's knee) in about 15 minutes of training camp. But Dale's still there, his big, dumb, crazy grin smiling down at all those little 19-year-old prospects who can't hold his jock-strap *yet*. And as much as I'm dying to see him gone, the fact is, until some of these kids develop, we're totally stuck with Dale Purinton, fourth defenseman. Unless anyone wants Sather to start signing UFA defenseman again *shudder* And to add insult to substantial incompetence, Purinton is actually getting old! He's going to start (if this is even possible) getting SLOWER out there!

The poster who started this claims that the Rangers depth on defense is 'so good' that they can't possibly 'waste' a high pick on a defenseman, and yet, I'm looking at a defense in which DALE FREAKIN' PURINTON will be playing 18 minutes a night. Heck, DALE FREAKIN' PURINTON will be anchoring the PK along with Darius 'the $25 million dollar man' Kasparitius.

My god, I'm still flabbergasted . . .

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06-18-2004, 04:16 PM
  #19
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I would take the Best Skater Availible(NO GOALIES IN THE FIRST ROUND!)

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Old
06-18-2004, 04:20 PM
  #20
Kubera55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
Why do they have to be 1st round picks or top 15 picks to be good defensemen?
They don't. But it sure would help their status as 'super-prospects'.

Look, if Jay Bouwenmeester and Dion Phaneuf were Rangers property, I might be willing to take your point. But they aren't. The Rangers have a host of red-chip bodies, guys who have skills and could mature into good solid two way defensemen. But the only one who's even close to having made it is Tjutin (and he's still got a ways to go).

Saying the Rangers prospect depth is so good you wouldn't consider one in the top rounds is illogical. If anything, depth IS good. Quality is not. Adding another good-solid-5th-round body isn't going to do the Rangers much good since they've already got five or six of those.

But a top 10 star in the making? How many of those do the Rangers have? Would you even list Tjutin in that category? I wouldn't (I think he's more of a terrific top three guy, and sincerely doubt he'll ever be a Franchise player).

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