Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
I was merely stating a situational comparison. My point was that if a player can help the team win a Cup, then trading prospects should be done. Like I said, Iginla ended up being better than Nieuwendyk, but I highly doubt either team regrets the trade. If the Blues won a Cup this year with Langenbrunner and Ian Cole went on to be Scott Niedermayer, I doubt either team regrets this hypothetical trade either.
Isn't Ian Cole a midlevel prospect? I get that he was the 18th overall pick and all, but from what I read, he's not in the Blues top 5 prospects.
I understand the point you are trying to make but no way does Lang = Nieu in this case. Could Lang help in the play-offs, potentially. Could he have the same impact that Nieu had to Dallas via that Iginla trade, not likely.
I just relooked at that draft and is it me or is that one of the worst classes in recent memory? I know it was only four drafts ago but none of the names really jump out. Sure you have Kane at #1 overall but I don't think he'd be #1 overall in any other draft from 2004 to now. And after Kane there's a significant drop off.
No it's not just you, that draft did suck a giant fat one.... that being said I still say the most Cole will get you right now is a mid-aged player with 1 year remaining on the contract. Teams are generally not going to give up a legitimate NHL player unless the prospect is top notch blue chipper, which I no longer consider Cole. IMHO he will top out as a 3-4 type player.
I could see a deal with Dallas involving Cole for Brad Richards however, but St. Louis would have to add more. Dallas needs the D, St. Louis needs a legitimate scoring threat.
Langenbrunner is not going to make us a favorite for the cup so no reason to trade a good prospect for him. The only trade that makes sense for the Blues is a package deal to bring in a legit scorer. Maybe things change before the playoffs if we make it but we have good depth on both forward and defense just missing that key go to guy.
So the Jersey fans really don't know the value of Cole, yet they think Blues fans are crazy for not wanting to trade him for a proven leader and vet in Langenbrunner...
Sounds to me like you just want to get rid of Langenbrunner and get a top prospect in the process. Cole is our best defensive prospect(Petro's no longer a prospect in my eyes). Someone said he'll top out as a 3 or 4, but that's all he was projected to be. He's basically a shutdown guy with offensive talent. Blues fans are high on him because he'll be cheap for several years, yet rounds out our defense. He's a key piece. Langenbrunner, on the other hand, is past his prime and would not fit in our top 6. NJ and STL are not good trading partners at the moment.
Ian Cole is still considered a top prospect as far as the Blues are concerned. He didn't look out of place at the NHL level when they brought him up for a couple games. They have the luxuary of letting him play top line minuntes in the AHL this year. He will surely replace Eric Brewer next year. According to Strickland the Blues front office has been raving about his play in Peoria so far this year. D-men take a little longer to develop. It surely didn't hurt Duncan Keith to play one year in the AHL. He is a sure bet to be an NHL regular. The Blues are likely to trade him for a rental type player for a playoff run. I could see them consider moving him in a deal for Richard's, but that would only be done if they were confident they could extend him.
So the Jersey fans really don't know the value of Cole, yet they think Blues fans are crazy for not wanting to trade him for a proven leader and vet in Langenbrunner...
Sounds to me like you just want to get rid of Langenbrunner and get a top prospect in the process. Cole is our best defensive prospect(Petro's no longer a prospect in my eyes). Someone said he'll top out as a 3 or 4, but that's all he was projected to be. He's basically a shutdown guy with offensive talent. Blues fans are high on him because he'll be cheap for several years, yet rounds out our defense. He's a key piece. Langenbrunner, on the other hand, is past his prime and would not fit in our top 6. NJ and STL are not good trading partners at the moment.
We're not undervaluing Ian Cole for God's sake. We've simply stated, time and time again, that if you think you can win the Cup THIS year, then trading for Langenbrunner shouldn't be a problem. If you don't think you can win the Cup this year, then it's a different story. Langenbrunner's contract is up after this year so there is clearly no long term benefits for trading for him.
From a personal standpoint, if the Devils were at the deadling and thought that a 60 point player would give them the Cup, I have no problem trading a guy like Alex Urbom for example. Our 3rd-5th best prospect with a high ceiling in exchange for a potential Stanley Cup. If you think Ian Cole is worth more than a Stanley Cup then you're nuts. However, if you don't believe that adding a 60 point player puts you over the top, then I agree that we're not good trade partners at the moment.
We're not undervaluing Ian Cole for God's sake. We've simply stated, time and time again, that if you think you can win the Cup THIS year, then trading for Langenbrunner shouldn't be a problem. If you don't think you can win the Cup this year, then it's a different story. Langenbrunner's contract is up after this year so there is clearly no long term benefits for trading for him.
From a personal standpoint, if the Devils were at the deadling and thought that a 60 point player would give them the Cup, I have no problem trading a guy like Alex Urbom for example. Our 3rd-5th best prospect with a high ceiling in exchange for a potential Stanley Cup. If you think Ian Cole is worth more than a Stanley Cup then you're nuts. However, if you don't believe that adding a 60 point player puts you over the top, then I agree that we're not good trade partners at the moment.
So you trade a top prospect for one year of a guy that likely adds nothing that we don't have to our team... Aside from veteran experience, which is the least of our worries. Trading for Langenbrunner is not the missing piece.Seen what he did in Dallas for years and he is not at all worth Cole, at least not to the Blues.
No interest in either at their current price, especially for a top young d-prospect on an entry-level contract. I love Salvador, but am not interested in taking New Jersey's overpriced veterans off their hands.
Let's talk Tedenby instead; that's the kind of value a top-notch, NHL-ready d-prospect has to an organization in New Jersey's circumstances.
This guy is a prospect...he may be a bust to make the NHL...i'd say no...we need proven players not maybes. Lets up the trade here...i suggest this
To NJDevils: TJ Oshie
To Blues: Travis Zajac
Actually the value is probably pretty close. Oshie is to much of fan favorite for the Blues to ever do that trade though. Points wise I think they are close in potential. I haven't seen enough of Zajac to comment on his two way play though. So Oshie may edge him out due to Oshie's excellent 2 way play.
I honestly would like Langenbrunner for around a 3rd round round pick or maybe a Junland. I don't see the Blues as a cup contender this year. But he would be a great player to have on any team for a playoff run.
I wouldn't give up Cole to get Langenbrunner but I can understand the devil's fans point of view.
After all a Blues fan asked what they would give us for Cole. It wasn't a Devils fan asking what it would take to get Cole. If that is all they would give us for Cole obviously there is no deal to be made. But don't get mad at the Devil's fans for not giving up much for a prospect they never wanted to get.
No interest in either at their current price, especially for a top young d-prospect on an entry-level contract. I love Salvador, but am not interested in taking New Jersey's overpriced veterans off their hands.
Let's talk Tedenby instead; that's the kind of value a top-notch, NHL-ready d-prospect has to an organization in New Jersey's circumstances.
I'm not sure how you can justify the phrase 'overpaid veterans.' Langenbrunner is a consistent 60 point player and team captain at 2.8 mil. How many players put up those numbers for that contract? Not many. Salvador played on NJ's top pair all season last year and they won the Jennings trophy. Granted he's not exactly a standpoint player that you game plan around, but 2.9 mil is a very fair price. Neither player is overpaid.
As for Tedenby, he's not going anywhere. He has the potential to be a point per game player for his whole career. In just about every game he's played so far, he's been the best skater for the Devils. If we're swapping "prospects", you can count this guy out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2
Actually the value is probably pretty close. Oshie is to much of fan favorite for the Blues to ever do that trade though. Points wise I think they are close in potential. I haven't seen enough of Zajac to comment on his two way play though. So Oshie may edge him out due to Oshie's excellent 2 way play.
Are you serious? Oshie has played two years and hasn't put up 50 points. Zajac has put up 62 and 67 the last two years, all while playing Selke caliber defense. No way I swap these two, especially since they're both the same age for the most part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2
I honestly would like Langenbrunner for around a 3rd round round pick or maybe a Junland. I don't see the Blues as a cup contender this year. But he would be a great player to have on any team for a playoff run.
I wouldn't give up Cole to get Langenbrunner but I can understand the devil's fans point of view.
After all a Blues fan asked what they would give us for Cole. It wasn't a Devils fan asking what it would take to get Cole. If that is all they would give us for Cole obviously there is no deal to be made. But don't get mad at the Devil's fans for not giving up much for a prospect they never wanted to get.
Thank you for recognizing my point. I never said that the two players have equal value, but if the Blues think Langs makes them a Cup favorite, it's a very reasonable deal. Since the Blues fans don't think he puts them over the top, then there's no point from a Blues perspective. At least someone finally understood what I was trying to say.
Ok Devils fans may call me crazy here but what if the trade was something like:
To St. Louis:
Jamie Langenbrunner
Alex Urbom
To NJ:
Ian Cole
Now I know you have to give to get and while Langenbrunner straight up for Cole would be a fleecing of St. Louis, I think Urbom could balance it out. Urbom is going to be a very good defenseman in the NHL but I think Cole is supposed to be better (I don't know TOO much about this guy but from what I have read in the past he's supposed to be a top dman?) The Blues would be giving up a great prospect but would also be getting a very good one back in return plus adding Langenbrunner.
Ok Devils fans may call me crazy here but what if the trade was something like:
To St. Louis:
Jamie Langenbrunner
Alex Urbom
To NJ:
Ian Cole
Now I know you have to give to get and while Langenbrunner straight up for Cole would be a fleecing of St. Louis, I think Urbom could balance it out. Urbom is going to be a very good defenseman in the NHL but I think Cole is supposed to be better (I don't know TOO much about this guy but from what I have read in the past he's supposed to be a top dman?) The Blues would be giving up a great prospect but would also be getting a very good one back in return plus adding Langenbrunner.
Good or no? I really don't know...
I am higher on Urbom alone than I am Cole to be honest. The only way I would be willing to let Urbom go would be for an NHL proven defense-man with offensive skills. A package with Urbom and Langs is to valuable to let go for just Cole.
Ok Devils fans may call me crazy here but what if the trade was something like:
To St. Louis:
Jamie Langenbrunner
Alex Urbom
To NJ:
Ian Cole
Now I know you have to give to get and while Langenbrunner straight up for Cole would be a fleecing of St. Louis, I think Urbom could balance it out. Urbom is going to be a very good defenseman in the NHL but I think Cole is supposed to be better (I don't know TOO much about this guy but from what I have read in the past he's supposed to be a top dman?) The Blues would be giving up a great prospect but would also be getting a very good one back in return plus adding Langenbrunner.
Good or no? I really don't know...
Since Blues fans don't want Langs, I don't think will happen. Plus I think we're too high on Urbom to let him go for another prospect.
St Louis
Erik Johnson
Ian Cole or Patrik Berglund
2nd Round Pick
That is a decent package, but they would only do this if Parise was refusing to sign with them. If he was refusing though, I would prefer Jack Johnson in LA instead of Erik Johnson.
I am higher on Urbom alone than I am Cole to be honest. The only way I would be willing to let Urbom go would be for an NHL proven defense-man with offensive skills. A package with Urbom and Langs is to valuable to let go for just Cole.
Like I said, I don't actually know that much about Ian Cole. From how I have seen people talk about him in the past I was under the impression he was supposed to be one of the top defensive prospects in the NHL. I was kind of under the impression he is supposed to develop into a top dman. That's also not puting down Urbom as he could possibly get there (and I actually do love him and dont want to give him up), I was kind of just saying that to get Ian Cole....it would probably take something like that (giving St. Louis back one of our top D prospects)
Like I said, I don't actually know that much about Ian Cole. From how I have seen people talk about him in the past I was under the impression he was supposed to be one of the top defensive prospects in the NHL. I was kind of under the impression he is supposed to develop into a top dman. That's also not puting down Urbom as he could possibly get there (and I actually do love him and dont want to give him up), I was kind of just saying that to get Ian Cole....it would probably take something like that (giving St. Louis back one of our top D prospects)
Cole will likely end up the number three guy in STL. His top end is a number two, top PK, 2nd PP, physical, shutdown defenseman. His low end would be a number four stalwart, defensive, PK defenseman.
