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Game #22 : Kings vs. Blackhawks - Saturday, 11/27/10 @ 7:30 pm PST

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Old
11-27-2010, 12:39 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by FootKnight View Post
I don't think Bernier sucks, doesn't deserve another start, should be traded, or whatever, but the W column is the obvious difference. Even if two goalies play the exact same and have the exact same stats, but one manages to fill up Ws instead of Ls, he's going to be more valuable/looked on in a more favorable light.
... A more favorable light only to people who are lazy, biased, or ignorant. It's obvious to see that Quick had a better W-L record in the comparison because he had more goal support; something he had nothing to do with. Wins are a team number - no individual player is responsible for any particular win, he can only make a contribution to it. Bernier is making nearly the exact same contribution to the team's winning as Quick did in the comparison, and it becomes apparent when you look at the game-by-game goal support numbers. If Bernier received the exact same goal support as Quick did, he would have the exact same W-L record.

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11-27-2010, 01:02 PM
  #27
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Bernier is fine. Neither goalie is putting up phenomenal numbers while this team dogs it in front of the net.

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Old
11-27-2010, 01:52 PM
  #28
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Corey Crawford will start in net tonight for Chicago.

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:02 PM
  #29
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LOL, so where is everyone telling the negative posters to "stop being negative?" Anyone? Where you at?

I see, I get flamed for bringing up some constructive criticism during the Kings winning streak but when we lose, EVERYONE freaks out and bashes players, yet I'm staying positive . . .?

Some of you are complete and utter SHEEP, BAAAAHHHH BAAAHHHHHH




BAAAAAAAAHHHHH

GO Kings!

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:24 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
LOL, so where is everyone telling the negative posters to "stop being negative?" Anyone? Where you at?

I see, I get flamed for bringing up some constructive criticism during the Kings winning streak but when we lose, EVERYONE freaks out and bashes players, yet I'm staying positive . . .?

Some of you are complete and utter SHEEP, BAAAAHHHH BAAAHHHHHH




BAAAAAAAAHHHHH

GO Kings!
I have been pretty upbeat about the Kings all season. They are just in a rut right now. It will get better once Poni and Willie get back.

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:27 PM
  #31
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Old
11-27-2010, 02:35 PM
  #32
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Tuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurcccccccccccccccc ccooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... Well I'm certainly glad that some can celebrate a Kings' loss merely because their favorite goalie didn't play the game. Stay classy!

Oh, and here's some food for thought, PU.

Here are the first seven starts of 09-10 for Jonathan Quick, the goalie who was "reliable", worthy of starting 72 games, and handed the number one job without question:



And, here are the first seven starts of 10-11 for Jonathan Bernier, the terrible French-Canadian goalie who "sucks", "doesn't deserve another start anytime soon", and "should be traded":



Well, damn. It's clear that there's a huge difference in results between Quick and Bern- wait, their results are nearly IDENTICAL. And that's with Quick receiving regular work, and Bernier receiving sporadic work.

What a difference a bit more defense and an extra goal per game of support does for a goalie's reputation, huh? Imagine that.
Situations are different, Quick was playing behind a team with no expectations, and was the kings best option in net. He also had a relatively poor defense infront of him.

Bernier however has got a lot of expectation to live up to, and just isnt doing that, despite playing behind a better defense than last year. In a vacuum that would be ok, but because Quick is playing out of his mind, it makes Berniers performances look worse than they are.

(i dont really know what arguement i just made, was just listing points i guess)

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:48 PM
  #34
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http://www.facebook.com/video/video....37977&comments

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Old
11-27-2010, 02:56 PM
  #35
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LOL?! WTF BROWNIE HHAHAHAHA

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Old
11-27-2010, 03:01 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... A more favorable light only to people who are lazy, biased, or ignorant. It's obvious to see that Quick had a better W-L record in the comparison because he had more goal support; something he had nothing to do with. Wins are a team number - no individual player is responsible for any particular win, he can only make a contribution to it. Bernier is making nearly the exact same contribution to the team's winning as Quick did in the comparison, and it becomes apparent when you look at the game-by-game goal support numbers. If Bernier received the exact same goal support as Quick did, he would have the exact same W-L record.
JT... at some point you have to consider that Bernier may be the reason that the reason plays with less confidence in front of him. Its become increasingly apparent that the Kings skaters play differently in front of the the two different goalies.

I'm not saying Bernier sucks, but the fact that Quick has earned his team's full trust and that Bernier has not is becoming increasingly more clear.

Again... one of those things the stats don't tell you... though they can be used to support this. It all depends how you look at them.

You can say "hey, the team has scored more goals in front of Quick than Bernier, so that must mean Bernier is playing just as good as Quick given their numbers." Or, you can look at those same exact numbers and say "hey, the team obviously plays better in front of Quick than Bernier because they score more goals and get more wins."

Watching the games supports the second view of the same statistic more than it does the first.

EDIT: Although now that I read through more of the thread, I see you were comparing last year to this year... either way, my point about THIS year stands.

As for last year... whatever, stop living in the past

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Old
11-27-2010, 03:01 PM
  #37
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Awesome.

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Old
11-27-2010, 04:01 PM
  #38
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JT ... you the same JT from LGK ?

As for Bernier, I WANT him to be Great dude, it was a joke, not like I posted some stupid poll saying Bernier is the next Jamie Storr or crap ... oh, and then try to claim it off as hyperbole ... I mean that would just be LAME ! dude

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Old
11-27-2010, 06:01 PM
  #39
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First game this season at Staples Center, and first regular season game this season for me tonight. Totally stoked. I hope we play well and are at least competitive.

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Old
11-27-2010, 06:15 PM
  #40
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Update: No Turco, Crawford was 1st off, looks like they'll ride him in Back to Backs.

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Old
11-27-2010, 08:39 PM
  #41
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Kings:



'Hawks:



Offense versus defense...

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Old
11-27-2010, 08:44 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'm not saying Bernier sucks, but the fact that Quick has earned his team's full trust and that Bernier has not is becoming increasingly more clear.
... Before LAST season, Quick had played 47 games with the Kings. There was certainly time to build some familiarity there, for sure.

Before THIS season, Bernier had played 7 games with the Kings. Obviously, the familiarity isn't there for Bernier. But is it HIS fault? The team has to learn to play in front of him, like they learned how to play in front of Quick - and if they fail or refuse to play in front of Bernier, that is on the team, not the goalie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
You can say "hey, the team has scored more goals in front of Quick than Bernier, so that must mean Bernier is playing just as good as Quick given their numbers." Or, you can look at those same exact numbers and say "hey, the team obviously plays better in front of Quick than Bernier because they score more goals and get more wins."
... This, I don't buy at all. The Kings scored more goals for Quick early last season because they were on a high-scoring binge out of the gate, with the Smyth-Kopitar-Williams line in full swing and Kopitar taking the early lead in the NHL scoring race. They were putting up big numbers, and Quick was the beneficiary of this, not even remotely the cause of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Watching the games supports the second view of the same statistic more than it does the first.
... See above. I don't buy this, and I've watched every game. The games where the Kings haven't scored goals in support of Bernier have been the Calgary game (back end of a back to back and Calgary out-played them), the Chicago game (team got out-played on the road by the defending champs), and the Montreal game (likely the Kings' worst game of the season). In all of those games, the Kings just played poorly, and THEY are to be held responsible for it, not Bernier.

The Kings are 5-7 on the road, and three of those wins are shootout wins - so if you really wanna look at it realistically the team is 2-7-3 on the road. So, the real fact of the matter is that the Kings are crap away from home. Bernier has played 5 of his 7 games on the road, and that's where all of his losses have come. The Kings have scored 8 goals total in Bernier's 5 road losses (1.6 per game).

Quick has played an even split - 7 games at home, 7 on the road. Now we're starting to shed some light on the issue, aren't we?

You're gonna have a hard time getting me to believe that the team "lets up" or "doesn't play hard" in front of one goalie vice the other. The Kings have scored 16 more goals than they have allowed when they're at home - but they have allowed 10 more goals than they have scored when they're on the road. The real issue lies with the TEAM, not either one of the goalies.

And when you consider that Bernier is a rookie goaltender with just 14 games TOTAL of NHL experience - I think it becomes a matter of expectation. Did you not expect a rough patch here? This is the reason I advocated a 1A/1B situation ... because I believe that both goalies will hit rough patches this season and neither goalie has been experienced/effective enough to warrant playing the vast majority of the games. It's pretty obvious that even after all these years, after all the failures in his playoff career with netminders, it seems that Terry Murray is still lost on how to handle them. It's baffling. And it's going to cost the team when Quick goes into a slump (which he likely will) and he has a rusty goaltender as a backup. I hope Murray does the right thing. Keep giving Bernier some consistent work, work in a few home games for Bernier, and show a little bit of patience with a rookie. I mean, damn. This is Hockey 101, isn't it???

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:13 PM
  #43
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GO KINGS GO !!! GO KINGS GO !!! GO KINGS GO !!!

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:29 PM
  #44
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Lets play some good hockey tonight!

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:34 PM
  #45
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crap ... most the online feeds seem to be following NYR/NSH game, and it's going to OT.

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:41 PM
  #46
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Very nice first shift

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
crap ... most the online feeds seem to be following NYR/NSH game, and it's going to OT.
Try this:

http://www.firstrow.net/watch/39258/...lackhawks.html

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:43 PM
  #48
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This is the most pressure I remember the kings having in the last few games.....

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Old
11-27-2010, 09:44 PM
  #49
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Try this:
Thanks

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11-27-2010, 09:45 PM
  #50
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... Wow - Brown made a beautiful move at the blue line there.

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