Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Taking into the account that they like their situation with Thomas and Rask splitting duties and that they have 3-4 other players they could easily move for cap relief (Jacobs has given Chiarelli the OK to bury contracts in the AHL)
Someone will have to make a good offer for Thomas to be moved. If he was healthy I'd do Gange + Ellis/Smith for Thomas + Ryder. I'm sure TB won't like it but we need scoring and speed or a PMD so unless someone can think of something else.
Yes and no. They may like their situation now, but will they 1 year from now when they have to resign Rask, Krejci and Boychuk? You can't be shortsighted and just focus on this year. Thomas' contract is with the B's if he gets hurt, if he retires, if he is demoted. At some point the Rask/Thomas combo becomes diminishing returns and is wasteful at the salary that it will be at.
Trading Thomas now may have become possible because of his excellent play. It's totally controversial to deal him now, and I understand the reservations about it, but if they wait too long then it becomes impossible to deal him.
Smith, Kubina and Kevin Quick for Thomas and Hunwick.
Tampa is one place I think he waives his NTC for. I think ANY deal involving Thomas would have the acquiring team taking on quite a bit of salary... Otherwise, there's no reason for Boston to move him.
I also think any deal involving Thomas wont be for just picks/prospects, but an upgrade at D.
Thomas+Hunwick for Ellis+Kubina
Sign me up!
Stuart would be a nice addition too. Who you want for him
Excuse me, the guy said there was no reason to trade him. No reason. None. Needing to get under the salary cap with Savard coming back is a reason. As an example, Chicago was in a similar situation and just dealt off half their cup team for cap reasons. Rask as the other option is a very good reason. As an example, Montreal dealt off Halak this offseason and it could be argued that they had less incentive to do that than Boston has to trade TT.
I'm not shoving the "Boston must trade Thomas" down your throat. I'm a Lightning fan who has had to endure a decade of "Lecavalier must be dealt" threads. But saying there is no reason to deal him is wrong.
Excuse me, the guy said there was no reason to trade him. No reason. None. Needing to get under the salary cap with Savard coming back is a reason. As an example, Chicago was in a similar situation and just dealt off half their cup team for cap reasons. Rask as the other option is a very good reason. As an example, Montreal dealt off Halak this offseason and it could be argued that they had less incentive to do that than Boston has to trade TT.
I'm not shoving the "Boston must trade Thomas" down your throat. I'm a Lightning fan who has had to endure a decade of "Lecavalier must be dealt" threads. But saying there is no reason to deal him is wrong.
We have another options. Ryder, Sturm and Paille, for example. So again, cap relief isn't an incentive.
I'm not saying Thomas is untouchable, but at this moment, unless Chia gets an overpayment, he isn't going anywhere.
Gotta agree with Doc, the cap is absolutely a reason to trade him.
Maybe not to get out of the crunch we're in with Savard coming back, but eventually Rask's deal will be up, so IMO, you have to move TT while there's a market for him, because as soon as Rask starts playing the majority of games, people will incorrectly go back to labeling Thomas as "an overpaid backup" just like they did last year. Hell, people are starting to claim Rask is "a backup" despite having the 4th best save percentage (.935) in the NHL.
But the scary thing about moving him to Tampa is that they look unbelievably good when they're playing well. As a team that hopes to make some noise in the playoffs, the thought of playing TB with TT has to be scary.
So I wonder if, in order for a deal to work, the B's have to feel like they are getting something that improves them as well. What the B's need is a fast, playmaking 2nd pair defenseman. And since I don't see TB with any spares in that department, a three-way might be what's necessary to make it work and worthwhile for both sides, considering the risk.
Gotta agree with Doc, the cap is absolutely a reason to trade him.
Maybe not to get out of the crunch we're in with Savard coming back, but eventually Rask's deal will be up, so IMO, you have to move TT while there's a market for him, because as soon as Rask starts playing the majority of games, people will incorrectly go back to labeling Thomas as "an overpaid backup" just like they did last year. Hell, people are starting to claim Rask is "a backup" despite having the 4th best save percentage (.935) in the NHL.
But the scary thing about moving him to Tampa is that they look unbelievably good when they're playing well. As a team that hopes to make some noise in the playoffs, the thought of playing TB with TT has to be scary.
So I wonder if, in order for a deal to work, the B's have to feel like they are getting something that improves them as well. What the B's need is a fast, playmaking 2nd pair defenseman. And since I don't see TB with any spares in that department, a three-way might be what's necessary to make it work and worthwhile for both sides, considering the risk.
They sure would look even more impressive with Thomas in goal.
Thomas has what? 2 years left on his contract after this year? I don't doubt he plays very well for the entire length of that contract.
Another scary thought, if TB was to add Thomas and wanted to take a run at the cup this year, they have plenty of cap space that could be used to acquire players with expiring contracts at the deadline. They remind me of the Penguins the year they won the Cup in some ways.
I totally get why people don't want to deal Thomas. I love the guy. I root for him more than I do Tuukka, just because I love his story and attitude. But it's better to trade a guy a little early than to try and trade him a little late. At this time next year we are going to be in a pinch with Krejci and Rask due for new contracts. Sure, right now we have Ryder and Sturm and Paille and Wheeler as all possible salary cap moves that can help, but next year, who is there that will make enough salary so that we can keep Thomas AND resign Krejci AND resign Sturm AND resign Boychuk?
Bergeron
Lucic
Horton
Chara
That's about it. If the move is Thomas this year, or one of those guys next.... then what? A GM has to be thinking more than just 1 month or 2 months ahead. If Chia thinks that Thomas is his guy, then maybe we do think about dealing Rask instead. But I think one of the 2 will be one by Xmas of '11.
Boston should really consider trading Thomas within the next month or so. Because right now he has such a high value that if they trade him they will get a return that will help them for the playoffs and for the future. But right now there aren't alot of teams that are in need of goalie help besides Tampa Bay, and thats pretty much it. But also Boston does not have to trade him if they offer they get isint good enough for them because they have guys like Sturm, Paille, Wheeler and Ryder that they can trade to get under the cap.
If Tampa would really consider trading for a guy like Thomas then it would have to include a backup goalie coming back to Boston ie Smith or Ellis. If they were to offer up a package i wouldnt accept anything below Smith or Ellis, Ty Wishart and Tampa's 2011 1st to Boston for Tim Thomas and a pick or prospect. And that trade I believe would put Boston under the cap. And then with Savard and Sturm coming back you could go and trade one of Wheeler, Ryder, Sturm or Paille for another DMan or pick.
It's a cliche but Downie is the type of player that you would have to overpay to get. Amazing chemistry on the Stamkos line and he is also Stammer's best friend and roommate. He's also signed t a cheap contract.
Sure you don't want Smith + Ashton/1st? I mean its not a strong return but its feasible..
In all seriousness, if we could get Thomas without giving up any of the core (Gagne & Malone included because they do both have a NTC), I'd be ecstatic. I might even be willing to take a Ryder back as well if we had too.
But this is SFY here, we can have Thomas for peanuts if we wanted.
IF, and thats a big if, Boston is moving TT for cap purposes.
And IF the Lightning are able to put together something that Boston would deem doable.
I would think it would look something like this:
Ellis/Smith (whoever they want more, Id prefer it be Smith but no big deal either way)
If Boston is looking for defensive prospects then Wishart/Mihalik/Quick/Barberio
If Boston is looking for offensive prospects than Fadden, Jones, Ritola, Pouliot
Then maybe throw in a 2nd or a 3rd.
I really dont think Boston would be looking for a roster player right now if its for cap purposes but if they are I could see someone like Adam Hall or maybe Smaby going that way.
Then coming from Boston obviously TT and maybe a smallish salary clinger like a Ryder or the such.
I would absolutely LOVE to get TT in TB as I think the cap hit isnt that bad and I think the 2 years he has left is the perfect gap for when Tik will be ready to go. Works very well.
I also think TT turns TB from a playoff contender to a conference contender.
I totally get why people don't want to deal Thomas. I love the guy. I root for him more than I do Tuukka, just because I love his story and attitude. But it's better to trade a guy a little early than to try and trade him a little late. At this time next year we are going to be in a pinch with Krejci and Rask due for new contracts. Sure, right now we have Ryder and Sturm and Paille and Wheeler as all possible salary cap moves that can help, but next year, who is there that will make enough salary so that we can keep Thomas AND resign Krejci AND resign Sturm AND resign Boychuk?
Bergeron
Lucic
Horton
Chara
That's about it. If the move is Thomas this year, or one of those guys next.... then what? A GM has to be thinking more than just 1 month or 2 months ahead. If Chia thinks that Thomas is his guy, then maybe we do think about dealing Rask instead. But I think one of the 2 will be one by Xmas of '11.
Sorry Doc. But I have to somewhat disagree here. For starters I truly don't believe they will resign Sturm but that's another topic in and of itself. Boychuk and Rask contracts carry them until the 2012/2013 season when Thomas' salary drops to 3m which will make him more valuable to lower market teams that are more worried about the actual salary paid out than the cap hit.
A combined 6.25m salary between your two goalies isn't a large commitment on the back end. I'd have no problem trading Thomas if:
1- Jacobs didn't want Chia to bury a contract and all other options were exhausted in terms of trading players not within this teams long-term plans.
2- Chia was able to get an immediate return to improve the wings or defense of this team.
3- We clear enough cap space to get both Sturm and Savard back off LTIR and give ourselves some cap wiggle room IE Thomas + Ryder have to go.
This team cannot afford to lose IMO our best player(currently), for little or no return in terms of NHL talent coming back or for minimal gain of cap space because we choose to value other none long term players (Sturm, Ference, Paille, Ryder, Hunwick) more than one that's outperforming the rest at the moment.
Sorry Doc. But I have to somewhat disagree here. For starters I truly don't believe they will resign Sturm but that's another topic in and of itself. Boychuk and Rask contracts carry them until the 2012/2013 season when Thomas' salary drops to 3m which will make him more valuable to lower market teams that are more worried about the actual salary paid out than the cap hit.
A combined 6.25m salary between your two goalies isn't a large commitment on the back end. I'd have no problem trading Thomas if:
1- Jacobs didn't want Chia to bury a contract and all other options were exhausted in terms of trading players not within this teams long-term plans.
2- Chia was able to get an immediate return to improve the wings or defense of this team.
3- We clear enough cap space to get both Sturm and Savard back off LTIR and give ourselves some cap wiggle room IE Thomas + Ryder have to go.
This team cannot afford to lose IMO our best player(currently), for little or no return in terms of NHL talent coming back or for minimal gain of cap space because we choose to value other none long term players (Sturm, Ference, Paille, Ryder, Hunwick) more than one that's outperforming the rest at the moment.
Ooops, you are right. I meant resign Wheeler not Sturm. No chance they resign Sturm (at least I hope not).
And whether 6 or 6.5 million is too much to spend on goalies isn't the point. The point is that in Thomas' last year, it ISN'T going to be 6.5m.... it's going to be 8 or 9m. But at that point will there be a market for Thomas? And worst case scenario: what if he retires at the end of the 2012 season: That means we have to resign Rask, add a back up AND pay Thomas $5m to sit at home. Not a good situation.
I wouldn't trade him for nothing either, but I think Kubina and Quick aren't nothing.
