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Bill Daly's comment on the Atlanta Thrashers

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Old
11-28-2010, 10:59 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by CC Chiefs View Post
This is Daly's fact not mine:

You make good points when you point to the fact that the Atlanta Braves make the playoffs 13 consecutive years in baseball, where it is a little more difficult to make the playoffs. And they are having difficulty selling out their home playoff games, which, you would think in most markets is unheard of. So, Atlanta has proven to be a very difficult market.
So it seems that you and Daly both need to educate yourselves a bit more on the subject.

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11-28-2010, 11:03 AM
  #27
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I think it's best to move Atlanta and Florida to Hamilton and Quebec (doesn't matter which team moves to which city) in the East. In the West, move Coyotes back to Winnipeg and Predators to Houston (A predators vs stars rivalry).

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11-28-2010, 11:03 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by btn View Post
So it seems that you and Daly both need to educate yourselves a bit more on the subject.
Remind me again who Bill Daly is:

William L. "Bill" Daly is the Deputy Commissioner and chief legal officer of the NHL under Commissioner Gary Bettman. He is also a Hockey Hall of Fame Board Member.

He seems to be pretty well educated?

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11-28-2010, 11:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by clevelandcrusaders82 View Post
If you have ever been to or seen downtown Atlanta, you would know why that location is an issue. The main issue is that the people that a.) care about hockey enough to go to a game and b.) can actually afford it, all live north of the city, either in the gwinnett area or the north fulton area, like alpharetta, roswell, johns creek, etc. Traffic buildup from 400 or 85 north, the highways that are used to get to downtown, begins around 430 and doesn't really let up til about 8. It's gridlock and a huge pain in the ass, and even hardcore fans don't want to screw with that on a consistent basis, let alone casual ones.

The arena is in a good location for the basketball team, however, as the demographics of the downtown and closely surrounding areas strongly resemble the makeup of the type of fans at the games.

My guess is that if Phillips Arena was where Gwinnett Arena (where the Gladiators play) is, attendance would be significantly better to the games, especially considering that the on ice product isn't terrible this year.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. I went to college in Atlanta and worked in downtown Atlanta for a few months. The traffic is horrendous, and coming from a New Yorker who has grown accustomed to bad traffic, that's really saying something. I can see how a casual hockey fan would be discouraged from going to a game because they don't want to deal with the traffic, especially on a week night when the highways are backed up.

Another thing I noticed about Atlanta is that there are a lot of hockey fans, but they aren't necessarily fans of the Thrashers. There are tons of transplanted Northerners who still remain fans of their hometown teams. These people will show up to games when the Thrashers play their favorite team, but don't care about the Thrashers otherwise. But I think this is a problem that many expansion teams have and is not unique to Atlanta.

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11-28-2010, 11:08 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
...

Another thing I noticed about Atlanta is that there are a lot of hockey fans, but they aren't necessarily fans of the Thrashers. There are tons of transplanted Northerners who still remain fans of their hometown teams. These people will show up to games when the Thrashers play their favorite team, but don't care about the Thrashers otherwise. But I think this is a problem that many expansion teams have and is not unique to Atlanta.
Yes and bingo - but if the Thrashers become a better team than they're old, childhood club, large numbers will convert. But ya gotta win first.

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11-28-2010, 11:10 AM
  #31
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Yes and bingo - but if the Thrashers become a better team than they're old, childhood club, large numbers will convert. But ya gotta win first.
So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.


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11-28-2010, 11:17 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.
Atlanta regularly draws 25,000 fans to weekend hockey games in combined ECHL and NHL attendance. If you think 25,000 people going to watch hockey in a single night is a bad hockey market, then I can't help you.

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11-28-2010, 11:18 AM
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So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.
It will take months, if not a full season.

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11-28-2010, 11:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.
See: Avalanche, Colorado: 2009-2010 Season.

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11-28-2010, 11:20 AM
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Fact is, the Atlanta owners stink. This is the SECOND sunday game this month where they scheduled an overlap with the Falcons playing next door. Stupid. Want to grow a market? Don't do this crap. They have no attention to detail.

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11-28-2010, 11:21 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LetNoneIn View Post
Atlanta regularly draws 25,000 fans to weekend hockey games in combined ECHL and NHL attendance. If you think 25,000 people going to watch hockey in a single night is a bad hockey market, then I can't help you.
Fine just don't bash other markets which some of you have.Alot of you bashed ottawa yet ottawa saying they are only getting 18,000 a game yet not taking into account all the other teams in ottawa.On some nights there is close to 40,000 out wtaching hockey.

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11-28-2010, 11:21 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.
Atlanta is never going to be a "good" hockey market, and I do not think any Thashers fans are implying they will be.

I would put the Thrashers in a tier with the following teams: Anaheim, New Jersey, Dallas, Colorado, Tampa, Nashville, Carolina, Columbus, Florida, St. Louis.

Teams that will suffer in attendance when their is a poor product on the ice. Will have good attendance when there is a good product on the ice. Could have great attendance during long streaks of success, could have very poor attendance during long streaks of failure.

You have teams like that in every single pro sport, teams that will have poor attendance if you put a garbage product out year after year. I do not understand why people expect every US market to be like Toronto or Montreal. Heck, even Canadian teams have had attendance issues when they struggled, not to the extent of US markets....but the idea that any market in Canada will sell out no matter what has no basis in reality.

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11-28-2010, 11:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Fact is, the Atlanta owners stink. This is the SECOND sunday game this month where they scheduled an overlap with the Falcons playing next door. Stupid. Want to grow a market? Don't do this crap. They have no attention to detail.
Most markets have sports overlaping games.

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11-28-2010, 11:23 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by btn View Post
Atlanta is never going to be a "good" hockey market, and I do not think any Thashers fans are implying they will be.

I would put the Thrashers in a tier with the following teams: Anaheim, New Jersey, Dallas, Colorado, Tampa, Nashville, Carolina, Columbus, St. Louis.

Teams that will suffer in attendance when their is a poor product on the ice. Will have good attendance when there is a good product on the ice. Could have great attendance during long streaks of success, could have very poor attendance during long streaks of failure.

You have teams like that in every single pro sport, teams that will have poor attendance if you put a garbage product out year after year. I do not understand why people expect every US market to be like Toronto or Montreal. Heck, even Canadian teams have had attendance issues when they struggled, not to the extent of US markets....but the idea that any market in Canada will sell out no matter what has no basis in reality.
No one is saying they have to sell out but there has to be a breaking point.If your under 15,000 long terms that is reason for concern.

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11-28-2010, 11:24 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
Most markets have sports overlaping games.
Not sharing the same parking lots.

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11-28-2010, 11:29 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
If your under 15,000 long terms that is reason for concern.
Half of the Thrashers seasons have had an average home attendance over 15k. In fact the first three seasons after the lockout, their average home attendance was over 15k.

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11-28-2010, 11:31 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
No one is saying they have to sell out but there has to be a breaking point.If your under 15,000 long terms that is reason for concern.
From a business standpoint, there is only a reason for concern if the on ice product is actually good for extended amounts of time and the attendance suffers.

The Thrashers, having sucked for the majority of their history, have bad attendance. They are now turning a corner, having established what seems to (finally) be a nice core. Lets see how they do attendance wise with a team that makes the playoffs and is competitive in them in the following years.


EDIT: To the OP, its just lip service. If he said that in Atlanta, or said anything that was actually quantifiable (like what the Thrash needs to do, deadlines, possible relocation ideas, etc.). then this would be something worth talking about.


Last edited by Finlandia WOAT: 11-28-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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11-28-2010, 11:39 AM
  #43
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Yes and bingo - but if the Thrashers become a better team than they're old, childhood club, large numbers will convert. But ya gotta win first.
Totally agree. And I think even the casual sports fan in Atlanta would embrace a winning team with open arms.. it's no surprise that the Thrashers had their best attendance in the 2006-07 season when they won the division and made the playoffs for the first time in franchise history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan View Post
So by that logic its not a good hockey market.A good market will support the team good or bad a so so market will support the team only when the team is winning.
I guess Pittsburgh and Chicago are bad hockey markets too. Both teams had awful attendance in the early 2000s when they were struggling. Once they started winning, their attendance skyrocketed. Chicago went from being second to last in attendance in 2006-07 to being first in attendance the past few seasons. Winning goes a long way for many franchises. There are probably only a handful of hockey markets in the league that would support their team in the same manner regardless if they were winning or losing.

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11-28-2010, 11:42 AM
  #44
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True story.

At a Thrashers/Flyers game some years ago - I see an obviously married couple. She's got a Thrashers jersey, he's wearing an old Brind'amour Flyers jersey. Part way through the game, the Thrashers take the lead. He takes off the Flyers jersey, and he's wearing a Thrashers jersey underneath!! In the third period, the Flyers retake the lead and he puts the Flyers jersey back on.

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11-28-2010, 11:52 AM
  #45
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Totally agree. And I think even the casual sports fan in Atlanta would embrace a winning team with open arms.. it's no surprise that the Thrashers had their best attendance in the 2006-07 season when they won the division and made the playoffs for the first time in franchise history.



I guess Pittsburgh and Chicago are bad hockey markets too. Both teams had awful attendance in the early 2000s when they were struggling. Once they started winning, their attendance skyrocketed. Chicago went from being second to last in attendance in 2006-07 to being first in attendance the past few seasons. Winning goes a long way for many franchises. There are probably only a handful of hockey markets in the league that would support their team in the same manner regardless if they were winning or losing.
Yes winning help my main issue is some not all but some were bashing ottawa left and right.Some said it looked worse then atlanta the only point i am really trying to drive home is ottawa and other canadian teams is much much more then just nhl.

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11-28-2010, 12:00 PM
  #46
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Half of the Thrashers seasons have had an average home attendance over 15k. In fact the first three seasons after the lockout, their average home attendance was over 15k.
Attendance is not really the best gauge of health; one should look instead at revenue per team, where the Thrashers rank just above the bottom of the list. Here are James Mirtle's 07/08 season estimates (scroll down to the graph located at the bottom of the story)

http://www.fromtherink.com/2009/5/7/...r-coyotes-fans

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Old
11-28-2010, 12:08 PM
  #47
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If you have ever been to or seen downtown Atlanta, you would know why that location is an issue. The main issue is that the people that a.) care about hockey enough to go to a game and b.) can actually afford it, all live north of the city, either in the gwinnett area or the north fulton area, like alpharetta, roswell, johns creek, etc. Traffic buildup from 400 or 85 north, the highways that are used to get to downtown, begins around 430 and doesn't really let up til about 8. It's gridlock and a huge pain in the ass, and even hardcore fans don't want to screw with that on a consistent basis, let alone casual ones.

The arena is in a good location for the basketball team, however, as the demographics of the downtown and closely surrounding areas strongly resemble the makeup of the type of fans at the games.

My guess is that if Phillips Arena was where Gwinnett Arena (where the Gladiators play) is, attendance would be significantly better to the games, especially considering that the on ice product isn't terrible this year.

Using Detroit as an example, they have it backwards with the "alleged" demographics as far as following and location. The NHL team is in downtown Detroit, where the majority of fans drive in from the burbs and Ontario. Most fans will drive 30-60 minutes on average to get to the Joe. The NBA team is a pretty good hike from core fan base (presuming that's Detroit proper and immediate surroundings), up in Auburn Hills-- which is fairly fair.

Typically arena location seems to be favored for the downtown or center of the region it serves. I guess I don't feel that this is the strongest argument. There are traffic issues for numerous markets (Chicago, LA, NYC, Boston, Philly, TO, etc.), but arenas aren't exactly portable so that one can follow around shifting demographics.

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11-28-2010, 12:32 PM
  #48
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I love it. Bad arena location. Team doesn't win enough. Bad owners.

Where have I heard these excuses before?

Of course the fans are never the problem.


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11-28-2010, 12:53 PM
  #49
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I love it. Bad arena location. Team doesn't win enough. Bad owners.

Where have I heard these excuses before?

Of course 'no fans' is never the problem.
Pittsburgh maybe?

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11-28-2010, 01:01 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
Team doesn't win enough. Bad owners.

Where have I heard these excuses before?

Of course the fans are never the problem.
Almost every single losing team outside a major market for their sport, like NYC or Chicago for baseball, Toronto and Montreal for hockey, Green Bay Chicago NYC for football.

Those are almost the generic excuses, and many cases the driving factor, for low attendance in nearly any sports market.

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