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Old
11-28-2010, 02:45 PM
  #51
le_sean
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Good move in trying to re-sign Hal. Awesome bottom pairing defenceman.

But if they keep him and have Spacek next year, the Habs really need to sign a mobile defenceman because everyone except Subban and Gorges are painfully slow.

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Old
11-28-2010, 02:48 PM
  #52
la25ecoupe
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Hammer Spacek 6M/year
Gill Gorges 4M/year

10M locked for bottom 4 that's good enuf.

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Old
11-28-2010, 02:50 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Being old means moving on. There is no point in re-signing him to 1-2years if it means losing good prospects. We already lost O'Byrne because of this signing, I don't want to lose Weber as well.

Markov and Gorges are must keeps. Add them to PK and Spacek, that leaves 2 open spots. One needs to be filled by Hammer or his replacement, the other will hopefully go to either a young prospect like Weber or an improvement.
Gill is greatly benefiting from playing on a fast team using a defensive system. He has quick linemates that back check efficiently and play strong defensively, it makes it a lot easier for him (and every other Dmen).
We certainly don't have the best Defense in the NHL on paper, and neither do the Bruins, yet we're the only two teams that allow less than 2Goals per game. Our goalies happen to arguably be the best two in the NHL as well. I don't think it's just a coincidence we both employ a defensive system. It isn't a coincidence either that Ottawa used to be one of the best defensive teams in the NHL either, they never were completely at the top because they never had a strong goalie. But this is just what Martin does, he makes his teams play very strong defense.

Gill is old, I'd rather re-sign a younger player like Picard or give Weber a chance.
Markov (assuming he is ready to play)
+ Gorges
+ Spacek
+ PK
+ Hammer's replacement
+ Weber (assuming he's ready to play in the NHL)
= 6 players

There's room for Gill.... frankly, I don't care if Gill plays 30-40 games next year... he will be in the line up come playoff time and his contribution in the PO is worth his salary.

You can say he's benefiting from the system -- but he was a beast for the Pens and a big reason why they won the cup. Who was on the ice in the closing seconds of the Pens / Wings final ? Gill.

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Old
11-28-2010, 02:52 PM
  #54
le_sean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by la25ecoupe View Post
Hammer Spacek 6M/year
Gill Gorges 4M/year

10M locked for bottom 4 that's good enuf.
Pipe dream. While Hal Gill might sacrifice money to have more years, I don't see him making less than $2 million, and Gorges will definitely be making more than $2 million.

As for Hamrlik, he better not be re-signed. He would scoff at being paid around $2 million (Spacek makes 3.8).

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Old
11-28-2010, 02:58 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Hamrlik is done. If he comes back I'll cut off my 3rd nipple.

Sorry, but Hamrlik's game is based much more on mobility than Gill. Gill won't shrink, he'll still be a shot blocking / PK beast... Hammer is just going to get slower and softer; which is basically his biggest asset.
How is Hamrlik done? He's been playing 21-23 minutes a game this year vs. other team's top lines.. he's not the player he once was but he's still a very solid defenseman.

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
that was just a result of Hab fans not watching him play, ever, let alone the year before when he was a Pierre McGuire MONSTER ( lol ) in the playoffs for the Pens...

Hab fans were making premature conclusion of his sloppy play in the early part of last year before he and the other new players had time to adjust and find their game on a team that was basically revamped with new bodies.
We also didn't take into account his constant progression and remembered him from his Toronto days. But the thing is that in Montréal, we are Habs fans instead of being NHL fans.

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:07 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
How is Hamrlik done? He's been playing 21-23 minutes a game this year vs. other team's top lines.. he's not the player he once was but he's still a very solid defenseman.
Agreed! I don't get people saying he is done. He is our best defensemen this season, a huge replacement to Markov and the leader of a defensive corp that is number 1 in the league for goals against (yes, I know Price is also a huge factor).

This guy is so under appreciated here

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:12 PM
  #58
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
How is Hamrlik done? He's been playing 21-23 minutes a game this year vs. other team's top lines.. he's not the player he once was but he's still a very solid defenseman.
alright, I'm a bit harsh in my critique of Hamrlik. But I would not spend a lot in keeping him. He looks gazed out there, flat footed almost ... kinda like an old man playing in a young man's league. He looks slower and slower noticeably year after year and you have to fear that any injury he may suffer from playing so much could be the last straw for him. If we can sign him for cheap, great.. but I doubt that... and I do not feel comfortable with him playing 20 minutes / night going forward.

Gill is even slower than Hammer, but he relies less on mobility and skating, which decreases the effects of his aging.

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:29 PM
  #59
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This is bad news... he's not getting any younger... if Gill is a priority for Gauthier, than we're even worse than I thought we were...

Let him become an UFA and if we don't find a better replacement, then start negociations... absolutely no reason to extend him so fast. What does that tell other players like Markov, espacially ?

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11-28-2010, 03:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Does it say that? He could easily mean "per year" how the **** do you know?
You're not too sharp, are you marble?

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:36 PM
  #61
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One year at $1.5 million would be all I would want to pay. The over 35 rule works against us. I imagine that any decision Gauthier makes could depend on whether he thinks Emelin might come over.

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Old
11-28-2010, 03:40 PM
  #62
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if they bring back gill, goat better be prepared to let hammer walk or trade spacek...all three back another year and older would be a nightmare

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Old
11-28-2010, 04:20 PM
  #63
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Personally I don't understand why he would re-sign Gill right now. I guess it's a good idea to understand your options going forward though. I think Gill is really good in the playoffs but can be a liability at times during the season. I want to see Spacek moved back to the 3rd pairing and improve the top 4 for next season so I don't know where Gill really fits right now unless he is cool with being the 7th dman which I find unlikely.

I would like to see the NHL take a page out of the IIHF and have a 22 man roster with all players dressed, 13F and 7D. If that was the case more teams would be interested in players like Gill and M.A. Bergeron for their specialities, teams could protect them more. I think it would make more sense for the cap too. Why have a player taking up cap space in the press box when he could be dressed too. Just my 2cents.

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Old
11-28-2010, 04:21 PM
  #64
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Skilsy could be as effective even with two broken knees, i'd keep him.

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Old
11-28-2010, 04:26 PM
  #65
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Markov (assuming he is ready to play)
+ Gorges
+ Spacek
+ PK
+ Hammer's replacement
+ Weber (assuming he's ready to play in the NHL)
= 6 players

There's room for Gill.... frankly, I don't care if Gill plays 30-40 games next year... he will be in the line up come playoff time and his contribution in the PO is worth his salary.

You can say he's benefiting from the system -- but he was a beast for the Pens and a big reason why they won the cup. Who was on the ice in the closing seconds of the Pens / Wings final ? Gill.
There's only room for Gill assuming he agrees to being a 7th Dman, and I don't see why he'd want to do that when he's regularly playing 19:19 a game. He would also have to agree with less money or the same at the most.

This also would mean letting Picard go and quite frankly, with the way he's been playing, I'd much rather keep him over Gill.

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Old
11-28-2010, 05:02 PM
  #66
coolasprICE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's only room for Gill assuming he agrees to being a 7th Dman, and I don't see why he'd want to do that when he's regularly playing 19:19 a game. He would also have to agree with less money or the same at the most.

This also would mean letting Picard go and quite frankly, with the way he's been playing, I'd much rather keep him over Gill.
On my team he'd be the 6th man, but even if he's 7th, Markov has proven to be injury prone and fragile. Anyways, 7th d man always gets to play as there's always injuries.

And I'd have to disagree about Picard>Gill, even if that means he'll be 1 million cheaper than Gill... Picard hasn't shown me anything that makes him hard to replace.

Where as Gill, what he brings, is much harder to replace.. Do people realize he's one of the best PK d-man in the league?

As for Weber locking in a spot -- I'm not sure about that. He seems to struggle against bigger forwards... It be nice to see him play but I have yet to see what he can bring defensively.

Markov
Spacek
Gorges
Hammer's replacement (~5 Million)
PK
Gill
Picard-ish player

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Old
11-28-2010, 05:20 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Hamrlik is done. If he comes back I'll cut off my 3rd nipple.

Sorry, but Hamrlik's game is based much more on mobility than Gill. Gill won't shrink, he'll still be a shot blocking / PK beast... Hammer is just going to get slower and softer; which is basically his biggest asset.

Hammers easily been our best dman this year imo. Much like last year.

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Old
11-28-2010, 05:22 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by E = CH˛ View Post
If we can prolong him 2 years at what he's making right now, that would be just fine.
No it won't. Are you joking?


Gill better take a paycut or he won't be landing here next summer.

Of course it all depends on our situation, and how much we need him, but with Subban and possibly Markov or Kaberle we won't be so desperate. Ofc Gauthier will try and sign him at any cost, and make up the rest as we go probably...

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Old
11-28-2010, 05:25 PM
  #69
coolasprICE
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Hammers easily been our best dman this year imo. Much like last year.
I'll be shocked if he can sustain this all season long. And "easily" our best D man? What makes it such a landslide?

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Old
11-28-2010, 06:07 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Hamrlik is done. If he comes back I'll cut off my 3rd nipple.

Sorry, but Hamrlik's game is based much more on mobility than Gill. Gill won't shrink, he'll still be a shot blocking / PK beast... Hammer is just going to get slower and softer; which is basically his biggest asset.
I agree with you that slowing down is much more of an issue for Hammer than it is for Gill.

Still, the one thing I dislike about Gorges/Gill is that they can't pinch to save their lives. And this is a forward corps that absolutely loves relying on their defensemen making point shots during set offensive plays, so that really hurts us on some rushes.

Gorges/Gill are awesome defensively, don't get me wrong, but maybe something like Gorges/Weber or Gorges/Picard would be a bit more balanced. Heck, Tinordi might be ready by next year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
This is bad news... he's not getting any younger... if Gill is a priority for Gauthier, than we're even worse than I thought we were...

Let him become an UFA and if we don't find a better replacement, then start negociations... absolutely no reason to extend him so fast. What does that tell other players like Markov, espacially ?
I mostly agree. However, as important as Markov is to us, it wouldn't be smart to negotiate a contract extension for him until we know the exact nature of his latest injury.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's only room for Gill assuming he agrees to being a 7th Dman, and I don't see why he'd want to do that when he's regularly playing 19:19 a game. He would also have to agree with less money or the same at the most.

This also would mean letting Picard go and quite frankly, with the way he's been playing, I'd much rather keep him over Gill.
That's my thinking too.

I completely agree with coolasprICE's D corps for next year, with one exception - I'd rather have Picard than Gill.

If we do keep Gill (and can't move Spacek), then I hope that Gauthier can at least turn Weber into something useful via trade.

I will say that I'd rather have Gill next year than Hammer or Spacek. So if we can move Spacek, I'm fine with keeping Gill.

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Old
11-28-2010, 07:18 PM
  #71
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1.5-2M I am okay with, otherwise no ty.
Agreed. And I'd be comfortable with that salary range for up to 2 years. but nothing more.

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Old
11-28-2010, 07:24 PM
  #72
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I started a thread a few weeks ago about resigning Gill to a 1 or 2 yr deal for the same money or a little less and most responded negatively about that. I guess that most ppl expect the older vets to play playoff hockey at the beginning of the season. Spacek/Hammer and Gill have all steadily gotten their games to a level on par with last season as i expected. I still would like to resign Gill but I would like management to start with fixing our 2nd line first. Moses(moen) does not belong there and everybody knows this.
Either Max Pac gets called up soon or we acquire a 2nd line winger. Max is the only winger ready or almost ready in Hamilton. Until Moen is replaced on that line, Cammy and Gomez will continue to spin their wheels.

Im tired of watching Moen on the 2nd line.

Please do something PG!!!

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Old
11-28-2010, 07:33 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I'll be shocked if he can sustain this all season long. And "easily" our best D man? What makes it such a landslide?
The fact he's been the best and is capable of logging big minutes in every situation. The others are a little more uni dimensional. Hammer is a rock.

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Old
11-28-2010, 07:51 PM
  #74
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Gill can't possibly get any slower and he already has terrible hands. Wisdom and experience on how to use his size to his advantage is what's keeping him in the league and it's something that doesn't deteriorate. He's a great #6 D and would welcome him back no doubt. He's also 35 not 40. What's another 2 years?

Not to mention he evens out the team height average.

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Old
11-28-2010, 08:11 PM
  #75
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