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Old
11-28-2010, 08:16 PM
  #76
m00ks
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Gill can't possibly get any slower and he already has terrible hands. Wisdom and experience on how to use his size to his advantage is what's keeping him in the league and it's something that doesn't deteriorate. He's a great #6 D and would welcome him back no doubt. He's also 35 not 40. What's another 2 years?

Not to mention he evens out the team height average.
Agreed. His game shows little signs of deterioration. Still smart, still blocks shots and still uses his stick and size to his advantage. I'm down with an extension.

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Old
11-28-2010, 08:19 PM
  #77
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250,000 for playoffs only

I wish we would have kept O'Byrne and groomed him as Gill's replacement for next year and possibly this year.

I've never seen a player get so much love because of a couple of good playoff games in which a goalie really was the real story.

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Old
11-28-2010, 08:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by couris View Post
1 mil 1 year
He would never accept such an offer, he could get much more money from a team like Columbus or New Jersey.

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11-28-2010, 10:05 PM
  #79
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Garrioch is notoriously unreliable. Eklund with an actual byline.

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11-28-2010, 10:59 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Does it say that? He could easily mean "per year" how the **** do you know?
Maybe the marble needs a bit more sharpening.

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:00 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
250,000 for playoffs only

I wish we would have kept O'Byrne and groomed him as Gill's replacement for next year and possibly this year.

I've never seen a player get so much love because of a couple of good playoff games in which a goalie really was the real story.
He's ridiculously good on the PK.

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:23 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
250,000 for playoffs only

I wish we would have kept O'Byrne and groomed him as Gill's replacement for next year and possibly this year.

I've never seen a player get so much love because of a couple of good playoff games in which a goalie really was the real story.
He was also great during Pittsburgh's run and has been solid so far this season. Can only think of one game this year where he stood out in a bad way (Atlanta), and even then the whole team was a mess.

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He said over 2 years. Do you know how to divide by 2?
Yea up to 2 mill a year for 2 years this is a great signing for a player like Hal Gill imo...

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:27 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He said over 2 years. Do you know how to divide by 2?
Yea up to 2 mill a year for 2 years this is a great signing for a player like Hal Gill imo...

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
On my team he'd be the 6th man, but even if he's 7th, Markov has proven to be injury prone and fragile. Anyways, 7th d man always gets to play as there's always injuries.

And I'd have to disagree about Picard>Gill, even if that means he'll be 1 million cheaper than Gill... Picard hasn't shown me anything that makes him hard to replace.

Where as Gill, what he brings, is much harder to replace.. Do people realize he's one of the best PK d-man in the league?

As for Weber locking in a spot -- I'm not sure about that. He seems to struggle against bigger forwards... It be nice to see him play but I have yet to see what he can bring defensively.

Markov
Spacek
Gorges
Hammer's replacement (~5 Million)
PK
Gill
Picard-ish player
So our defense will be pretty much the same with the exception of replacing Hammer (arguably our best Dman this year and last). I'm not too fond of that idea. Weren't you the one whining about the defense getting old and slow before the season started and claimed we would suffer from it this year?...

There's too many interesting upcoming UFA next summer to come back with the same group again.

I'd be much happier re-signing Hammer to a cheaper deal (there's no way he makes 5.5M again), and adding another top Dman, say Brewer (or Kaberle, or White, Or Ehrhoff, etc..), than re-sign Gill.
Can you imagine?..
Markov-Brewer
Gorges-PK
Hammer-Spacek

That is a lot more appealing to me. So like I said, unless Gill firmly agrees to playing the role of #7 (something I don't think he wants), I don't want him to get an extension now. If he does agree to that role, then we shouldn't offer him more than a million.

I have no problem with Gill, I'm completely satisfied from his play, but we should take the opportunity of next summer to really improve. He's our 6th Dman, so keeping the 5 better ones while adding another top D would forcibly move him down to the 7th spot. Also, like I said, this would also surely mean no Weber, and I'm not fond of this idea. You say you're not sure about Weber being ready, well, it's going to be very tough to know if he's ready when he's burning the AHL but then called up to play as a Forward or bench warmer. He won't be perfect, he's a kid, he needs to learn and he's not Subban, it'll take longer but he needs to play on Defense.

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:58 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
He's ridiculously good on the PK.
Agreed.

With pleks up high and gill down low, I think the habs are as solid as anyone on the pk.. especially 5 on 3s

Gill is cap friendly, low maintenance, an excellent shot blocker, and whatever he doesnt have skating wise, he makes up for with his stick.

He's a winner in my books and I'd be happy to have him back.

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Old
11-29-2010, 12:33 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So our defense will be pretty much the same with the exception of replacing Hammer (arguably our best Dman this year and last). I'm not too fond of that idea. Weren't you the one whining about the defense getting old and slow before the season started and claimed we would suffer from it this year?...

There's too many interesting upcoming UFA next summer to come back with the same group again.

I'd be much happier re-signing Hammer to a cheaper deal (there's no way he makes 5.5M again), and adding another top Dman, say Brewer (or Kaberle, or White, Or Ehrhoff, etc..), than re-sign Gill.
Can you imagine?..
Markov-Brewer
Gorges-PK
Hammer-Spacek

That is a lot more appealing to me. So like I said, unless Gill firmly agrees to playing the role of #7 (something I don't think he wants), I don't want him to get an extension now. If he does agree to that role, then we shouldn't offer him more than a million.

I have no problem with Gill, I'm completely satisfied from his play, but we should take the opportunity of next summer to really improve. He's our 6th Dman, so keeping the 5 better ones while adding another top D would forcibly move him down to the 7th spot. Also, like I said, this would also surely mean no Weber, and I'm not fond of this idea. You say you're not sure about Weber being ready, well, it's going to be very tough to know if he's ready when he's burning the AHL but then called up to play as a Forward or bench warmer. He won't be perfect, he's a kid, he needs to learn and he's not Subban, it'll take longer but he needs to play on Defense.
Ya, the thread I started was "Two Czechs" or something to that effect and it was basically addressing the fact that these two are most likely going to log a lot of minutes and they are getting older, slower and more prone to injury....it had very little to do with Gill. I also brought up the threat of Markov getting injured, and we did debate whether he was prone to injury or not

I'm not going to take back my words because I still believe that our back end needs to get younger and more mobile; and I still believe we can improve (Carey has been great thankfully). I think Hamrlik specifically has not a lot of gas left, he's a shadow of his old self and moving forward I think we all agree he's going to need a lesser role.

So considering the lesser role, I rather give that to someone like Gill -- who is ageless in a sense by the way he plays and who will give us top level PK... If we lose Gill, expect our PK to suffer greatly. Also, who do you want on the ice sprawling in front the goalie / blocking shots from the point with seconds left in the game up by 1 goal? Gill or Hamrlik? Gill, and Gill over anybody for that matter.

He's the defensive version of MAB... except that MAB hurts this team with his defensive errors, and Gill only hurts this team for lack of production (but I'll take that over MAB's shortfall)


Last edited by coolasprICE: 11-29-2010 at 12:42 AM.
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Old
11-29-2010, 12:36 AM
  #88
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Thinking he'll sign to roughly the same salary. I dont see anything that would warrant him getting a pay cut. If anything id see him be between 2.5-2.75. Seems like hes a great person, wouldnt mind seeing the Habs give him a job after his career is over.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:41 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Ya, the thread I started was "Two Czechs" or something to that effect and it was basically addressing the fact that these two are most likely going to log a lot of minutes and they are getting older, slower and more prone to injury....it had very little to do with Gill. I also brought up the threat of Markov getting injured, and we did debate whether he was prone to injury or not

I'm not going to take back my words because I still believe that our back end needs to get younger and more mobile; and I still believe we can improve (Carey has been great thankfully). I think Hamrlik specifically has not a lot of gas left, he's a shadow of his old self and moving forward I think we all agree he's going to need a lesser role.

So considering the lesser role, I rather give that to someone like Gill -- who is ageless in a sense by the way he plays and who will give us top level PK... If we lose Gill, expect our PK to suffer greatly. Also, who do you want on the ice sprawling in front the goalie / blocking shots from the point with seconds left in the game up by 1 goal? Gill or Hamrlik? Gill, and Gill over anybody for that matter.

He's the defensive version of MAB... except that MAB hurts this team with his defensive errors, and Gill only hurts this team for lack of production (but I'll take that over MAB's shortfall)
Your assessment of Hamrlik has been quite poor since the season even started.

I don't want to see Gill sprawling on the ice with under a minute left. I want the puck to be at the other side of the rink. Gill isn't nearly as good as Hamrlik, so if Hamrlik and Spacek are used as 5-6th Dmen, it becomes a huge luxury.
To hear you speak, it would seem Hammer is becoming a liability while Gill is a monster. Such a skewed view of reality.

You won't take your words back because you're stubborn, as simple as that. You don't need to be a genius to understand that age catches up to players. That wasn't the issue. You were claiming our defense would suffer from age+overplaying. I was saying, with the addition of Subban and Gorges being able to pick up more minutes, Hammer and Spacek won't need to play upwards of 28min in games. As well, with a team more accustomed to one another and system, would certainly be helpful.
This is pretty much exactly what happened, Hammer and Spacek are both averaging 2 min less that their overall ice time last year, but more importantly, if you look at how much time they were averaging this early last season, then Spacek is averaging 3min less and Hammer 4:30 less. That is quite a significant difference.
This while having Markov out of the lineup.

Our defense would look a lot worse if we didn't employ a defensive system, and that includes Gill. That's why adding a top Dman along with re-signing Markov/Gorges should be the first thing we do. Along with PK, they would form the top 4. Having a guy like Hammer, that is so solid, log 5th Dman minutes would be a luxury. He is better than Gill, it's all you need to know.
It's not about who you rather have with a minute left in the game, it's more about the 59 previous minutes.

The idea that Gill doesn't tire out as much as Hamrlik because of ''mobility'' is quite funny as well. He is 6'7 245lbs, is the slowest player on our team, perhaps that's why you think he doesn't tire out as much. He's just too slow that he pretty much remains still. I'm not knocking on Gill, he's a great helper for us, and a PK specialist. But he's not better than Hammer, the only argument you might have on your side is the salary, that's it.

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Old
11-29-2010, 02:08 AM
  #90
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Ian White Please please please.

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Old
11-29-2010, 03:02 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Your assessment of Hamrlik has been quite poor since the season even started.
He looks slow and old imo -- there's still 60 games left in the season.

Quote:

I don't want to see Gill sprawling on the ice with under a minute left. I want the puck to be at the other side of the rink.
Agree. However, as you are well aware, there could be a face off in our zone. Under this circumstance, I rather have Gill over Hamrlik. And these situations are the most crucial and occur plenty enough during a season. Add to that the Penalty kill and Gill is used in very key situations that greatly effect the outcome of the game. Good teams have the weapons that can shut down the opponents.


Quote:

Gill isn't nearly as good as Hamrlik, so if Hamrlik and Spacek are used as 5-6th Dmen, it becomes a huge luxury.
There's a cap issue -- Hamrlik is going to command more than Gill as a 5th or 6th D man.

Quote:

It's not about who you rather have with a minute left in the game, it's more about the 59 previous minutes.
You're forgetting the Penalty Kill, so no, it's not just 1 minute a game that I would prefer Gill. It includes PK time.

I think we can all appreciate having a solid Penalty Kill. (2nd best in the NHL )

Quote:

The idea that Gill doesn't tire out as much as Hamrlik because of ''mobility'' is quite funny as well. He is 6'7 245lbs, is the slowest player on our team, perhaps that's why you think he doesn't tire out as much. He's just too slow that he pretty much remains still. I'm not knocking on Gill, he's a great helper for us, and a PK specialist. But he's not better than Hammer, the only argument you might have on your side is the salary, that's it.
I did not say that Hamrlik tires out faster than Gill, I said Hamrlik relies on his speed more than Gill.

Each passing year, Hamrlik is slower. It's very evident, and again, I truly question if he can continue this pace and remain healthy. With that said, he might not cost 5 million but he'll most probably ask for 3.5- 4 Million. I rather save with Gill and put that money towards someone who is worth 6 Million.

You bring up that he's playing less minutes, but he's still being used plenty. In the last 4 games he's played 23 Minutes 3 times and 21 minutes the other. This is still a good amount. If you tie up more money with him next year, you're only going to be having less cap money to spend on a star D UFA. So we're basically allocating our resources on a D who relies on mobility but is getting slower with each passing year

Markov
Hamrlik's replacement (5-6 million UFA signing)
Spacek
Gorges
PK
Gill $2 Million / year
Picard / Weber / 1 Million dollar player


Last edited by coolasprICE: 11-29-2010 at 03:07 AM.
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Old
11-29-2010, 06:45 AM
  #92
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Gill = #1 PK in the league.

Sign him up if his demands are at all reasonable.

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11-29-2010, 07:39 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
He's ridiculously good on the PK.
He's good on the PK. At even strength he's about worst on the team in terms of plus/minus and points. When the Habs get behind all of the burden to score is laid on two players to help offensively from the blueline - that's Subban and Hamrlik. Gill is useless. He and Gorges were atrocious in a few games because of it.

The Habs are fortunate to have a few guys who can kill penalties. It's not just one guy. I've seen 5 on 3's killed off while Gill was in the penalty box. Gill struggles to clear the puck. He really is not that good at that. His bread and butter is the long reach and without that he wouldn't be in the NHL.

I have no trouble re-signing Gill if there is no way to improve that position and there is minimal money left over. I just think the Habs have more priorities than re-signing Gill right now which is the topic at hand.

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Old
11-29-2010, 07:44 AM
  #94
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I wouldn't mind bringing Gill back, to be honest I was against it 2 years ago but now the guy has showed me that he can play in this league and isn't that slow to what I first thought of him, Great PK killer and he stepped up big time in last years playoffs, I wouldn't mind another year or two for something around the same salary

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Old
11-29-2010, 08:14 AM
  #95
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Gill should be used on the third pairing and on the PK. When you look around the league and at the salary cap, his salary should be similar but probably slightly higher than those in the same category. I say higher because he is more effective on the PK than most but at 5 on 5, Gill is and adventure. He is a guy who seems more comfortable playing in his own end than in the neutral zone or the offensive zone.

I would really hesitate to give him more than $2 million per year and preferably $1.5 million. Because of his age and the ridiculous contract rules, I would also be reluctant to give him more than one year.

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11-29-2010, 08:16 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
He's good on the PK. At even strength he's about worst on the team in terms of plus/minus and points. When the Habs get behind all of the burden to score is laid on two players to help offensively from the blueline - that's Subban and Hamrlik. Gill is useless. He and Gorges were atrocious in a few games because of it.

The Habs are fortunate to have a few guys who can kill penalties. It's not just one guy. I've seen 5 on 3's killed off while Gill was in the penalty box. Gill struggles to clear the puck. He really is not that good at that. His bread and butter is the long reach and without that he wouldn't be in the NHL.

I have no trouble re-signing Gill if there is no way to improve that position and there is minimal money left over. I just think the Habs have more priorities than re-signing Gill right now which is the topic at hand.
Good evaluation. I think we should be careful about falling in love with his "skills".

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Old
11-29-2010, 09:06 AM
  #97
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LOL... people trashed MAB because he was only effective on the PP and now people want to keep Hal "pylon" Gill because he's good on the PK...

He's effective, I don't dislike him as a player, but he's old and lately he made several mistakes 5 on 5... let's wait until the season's over and if he didn't totaly collapse and we didn't find any better replacement... sure, start negociation... but why the rush ? is he part of the core, now ? WTF ?

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11-29-2010, 09:10 AM
  #98
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5 year 20 million would sound about right

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11-29-2010, 09:51 AM
  #99
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Does it say that? He could easily mean "per year" how the **** do you know?
Agree, I read 3.5 per and I was like what the...

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11-29-2010, 10:19 AM
  #100
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i wonder if the black hole that swallowed spacek's offensive production can be harnassed for time travel and/or interstellar exploration.
I'd be satisfied with a quasar, they're pretty

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