Pronger deal was made to win a Stanley Cup. Meszaros trade was made to improve the 5-6 pairing to win a Stanley Cup. We are in Cup winning mode, every deal is made to improve this team to win a cup. Not comparing the trades, but the goal is the same. Win the CUP! Pretty much everything is and should be about that with this team.
So, they're not the same. OK. Glad that we've cleared that up.
Obviously the goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but not every move has the same relevance to that goal. Re-signing Ville Leino, for example, is not as important as re-signing Carter and Giroux.
Nope, I'm saying great trade, and great job getting Pronger out of Anaheim before someone else. We did not give up too much. We could of sat and negotiated more and waiting for our competitors to come and offer more and get a Norris Trophy defenseman. I know what we gave up and Pronger is well worth it.
So, if you're at an auction... do you keep upping the price of the painting when no one else is bidding just because it's a really nice painting?
Seriously man, Anaheim played Holmgren into paying more than he had to... way it goes in negotiations.
Boston was the worst offensive team in hockey last year: 2.39 GPG. Injuries only exacerbated that as the series went along.
I was referring to the playoff series against us, not the regular season.
The first three games of the series before Krejci got injured and Gagne returned the Bruins scored 12 goals in three games for four goals per game. After that, they scored 8 goals in four games for a totals of two goals per game while being shutout once. Massive difference.
If I did my math right Satan and Krejci combined for eight points in the first three games before Krejci got injured. After that, Gagne totaled for four goals (two of them GWG) and one assist for five points (two of them being GWG mind you) in four games. If I did my math right, Satan also had a total of 0 points after Krejci got injured.
Boston could score in that series, especially when Krejci was with them. Maybe it's just me, but while watching that series I recognized Krejci as the catalyst for that entire Bruins offense. Krejci and Satan alone were tearing us to shreds in those first three games.
I was referring to the playoff series against us, not the regular season.
The first three games of the series before Krejci got injured and Gagne returned the Bruins scored 12 goals in three games for four goals per game. After that, they scored 8 goals in four games for a totals of two goals per game while being shutout once. Massive difference.
If I did my math right Satan and Krejci combined for eight points in the first three games before Krejci got injured. After that, Gagne totaled for four goals (two of them GWG) and one assist for five points (two of them being GWG mind you) in four games. If I did my math right, Satan also had a total of 0 points after Krejci got injured.
Boston could score in that series, especially when Krejci was with them. Maybe it's just me, but while watching that series I recognized Krejci as the catalyst for that entire Bruins offense. Krejci and Satan alone were tearing us to shreds in those first three games.
Right, but they were still a pretty crappy offensive team... and that was a big reason why we could come back. Krejci getting hurt was huge for that, but that wasn't really a dangerous offensive team we were dealing with.
Right, but they were still a pretty crappy offensive team... and that was a big reason why we could come back. Krejci getting hurt was huge for that, but that wasn't really a dangerous offensive team we were dealing with.
I see what you're saying, but they didn't look like the same team as they did in the regular season in those first three games with Krejci and the stats back that. He just seemed to be on a roll and seemed to be a catalyst for that entire offense. Satan disappeared completely without him.
Still, I see what you're saying though. Boston being an inherently weak offensive team, even despite Krejci's roll, definitely played a part in that series.
Still, my intended point stands that we won the first and third rounds because we matched up well against our opponents while we won the second round because of injury luck.
Boston could score. We only won that series because we ultimately ended up being lucky in the injury department. Richards took out the Bruins best offensive player (by far) in Krejci and then our best winger in Gagne came back from injury all in the span of one game.
If neither of those two things happen then I really doubt we come back from 0-3. We won against the Devs and Habs because we matched up well against them (and I imagine fatigue played a bit of a role in the Habs series). We won against the Bruins because we got lucky with timely injuries and injury returns really.
Ill agree with that. They were owning us in all areas of the ice before Krejci went down.Then we got Gagne back and that changed everything obviously. Sturm was lost for them in game 1 as well
Montreal was riding not only Halak but Cammalleri as well who had what 12 goals in the first 2 rounds? once Pronger shut him down that definitely tilted everything in the Flyers favor.
Ill agree with that. They were owning us in all areas of the ice before Krejci went down.Then we got Gagne back and that changed everything obviously. Sturm was lost for them in game 1 as well
Montreal was riding not only Halak but Cammalleri as well who had what 12 goals in the first 2 rounds? once Pronger shut him down that definitely tilted everything in the Flyers favor.
I forgot about Sturm, but he was their leading goal-scorer and a good PKer so I imagine that might of had some effect on the series.
Like I said before, I imagine fatigue might have played a role in the Montreal series. They had two seven game comeback series against the two favorites from the East and rode a hot goalie through all of it. Not saying fatigue won us that series, because it most definitely didn't, but I think it could have been a factor possibly.
I don't like the argument that the Pronger trade will be measured solely on whether or not the Flyers win a Cup with him on the roster. There are far too many factors in a playoff series (let alone 4 series) to base the success of one trade on a championship.
Match-ups, luck, streakiness (hot and cold) and injuries all play significant factors in a 7-game series.
So, if you're at an auction... do you keep upping the price of the painting when no one else is bidding just because it's a really nice painting?
Seriously man, Anaheim played Holmgren into paying more than he had to... way it goes in negotiations.
Except this wasn't a friggin' public auction or even a silent auction, where you know who is bidding and for how much.
Now Homer is to blame for not:
a) being a mind reader - not knowing who else was bidding by reading the psychic airwaves or
b) not wiretapping Bob Murray's phonelines to see who else was calling him.
Holmgren wanted Pronger. He saw how good the team could be if he added one elite piece. He knew Murray was shopping Pronger around and that there would be other teams in on the silent, anonymous bidding for him, and he had no legal or non-psychic way of knowing exactly who was bidding or what they were offering.
In the end, he made a shrewd deal at a fair price for one of the best players in the game.
It's a great deal for the Flyers. No matter what. Period.
Except this wasn't a friggin' public auction or even a silent auction, where you know who is bidding and for how much.
Now Homer is to blame for not:
a) being a mind reader - not knowing who else was bidding by reading the psychic airwaves or
b) not wiretapping Bob Murray's phonelines to see who else was calling him.
Holmgren wanted Pronger. He saw how good the team could be if he added one elite piece. He knew Murray was shopping Pronger around and that there would be other teams in on the silent, anonymous bidding for him, and he had no legal or non-psychic way of knowing exactly who was bidding or what they were offering.
In the end, he made a shrewd deal at a fair price for one of the best players in the game.
It's a great deal for the Flyers. No matter what. Period.
Exactly. If overpaid is the argument, then we have to know what Anaheim was "willing to accept". If we had played possum and acted like we were not doing the Pronger deal for what I am sure they asked for (the firsts), then he would have been shopped and perhaps, he would not be in Orange and Black but rather Black and Yellow. And Pronger on the back end with Crosby and Malkin up front is not something I would like to see for the next 7 years.
We may have thrown a lot at Anaheim, but we freakin' got Chris Pronger. Give the GM a hand for making that happen.
George Street's Finest! Awesome - many Flyer fans on the rock these days? Or is it still a Leaf and Hab land?
Stilll pretty much Leafs and Habs. Few Sens and other Canadian team fans. Boston is probably the most popular US team around here. I dont know any Flyers fans, but occasional I see someone with a flyers hat or jersey or something
So, they're not the same. OK. Glad that we've cleared that up.
Obviously the goal is to win the Stanley Cup, but not every move has the same relevance to that goal. Re-signing Ville Leino, for example, is not as important as re-signing Carter and Giroux.
Agreed and Agreed. Again, Homer did it right. Giroux first (under market value), Carter second (under market value), Leino next. I suspect that Leino will be back for Zherdev money.
Is anyone here familar with the tagging cap rule? Is that why we can't re-sign Leino until the offseason? Holmgren alluded to cap problems being the cause for lack of a deal, as did Leino. Hopefully we can ditch Walker somewhere sooner than later
Stilll pretty much Leafs and Habs. Few Sens and other Canadian team fans. Boston is probably the most popular US team around here. I dont know any Flyers fans, but occasional I see someone with a flyers hat or jersey or something
I'm from Mount Pearl. Wasn't many Flyer fans growing up. Going to Montreal in February with the boys from back home - everyone is a Habs fan. However, seeing the Flyers play in Montreal is "almost" as good as Philadelphia. ATmosphere is electric. Watching them in Ottawa, not so thrilling.....
Exactly. If overpaid is the argument, then we have to know what Anaheim was "willing to accept". If we had played possum and acted like we were not doing the Pronger deal for what I am sure they asked for (the firsts), then he would have been shopped and perhaps, he would not be in Orange and Black but rather Black and Yellow. And Pronger on the back end with Crosby and Malkin up front is not something I would like to see for the next 7 years.
We may have thrown a lot at Anaheim, but we freakin' got Chris Pronger. Give the GM a hand for making that happen.
I imagine there were quite a few other GMs around the league kicking themselves last spring for not getting in on the Pronger sweepstakes when they had the chance.... and they are still kicking themselves.
Is anyone here familar with the tagging cap rule? Is that why we can't re-sign Leino until the offseason? Holmgren alluded to cap problems being the cause for lack of a deal, as did Leino. Hopefully we can ditch Walker somewhere sooner than later
Isn't that the name for the rule that you can't go over next year's cap or something similar?
That would make sense. I'd forgotten about getting Leino re-signed and this is the first I'm hearing about what happened.
I think Leino is getting more than the 1.8 we have left. The money for Laps + Walker wavied and a goalie waived will clear the room and he will be signed.
From Article 50.5(e)(iv)(C):
For a Club that wishes to sign an Unrestricted Free Agent following the commencement of a season (i.e., after the first day of the NHL Regular Season), if the Club signs such a Player to an SPC after December 1, then the following rules shall apply:
(1) In order for the Club to sign such a Player to a one-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the remaining Player Salary and Bonuses to be earned by the Player under the SPC in that League Year; and
(2) In order for a Club to sign such a Player to a multi-year SPC after December 1 of a season, the Club must have Payroll Room equal to or in excess of the Averaged Amount of the Player Salary and Bonuses for the remainder of such season. If, however, the Averaged Amount of the SPC exceeds the Club's Payroll Room for the then-current League Year, the Club may still sign such SPC, provided that it has Payroll Room and, if such Payroll Room is insufficient to acquire the SPC, it has an amount equal to one or more SPCs that will expire at the end of such League Year, in an amount equal to or in excess of the amount by which the Averaged Amount exceeds the Club's Payroll Room (the "Tagged Payroll Room"). Until such time as the Club has or makes Payroll Room in the current year in excess of such Tagged Payroll Room, the Club may not engage in any Player transactions requiring Payroll Room, including but not limited to, acquiring an SPC or "extending" or entering into a new SPC (the "Tagging Rule"). In the event the Club does have or creates such excess Payroll Room, it may use such excess Payroll Room in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.
I'm from Mount Pearl. Wasn't many Flyer fans growing up. Going to Montreal in February with the boys from back home - everyone is a Habs fan. However, seeing the Flyers play in Montreal is "almost" as good as Philadelphia. ATmosphere is electric. Watching them in Ottawa, not so thrilling.....
Yeah im seeing them in Toronto in March. Saw them in Ottawa year before last
Agreed and Agreed. Again, Homer did it right. Giroux first (under market value), Carter second (under market value), Leino next. I suspect that Leino will be back for Zherdev money.
why do you think they were signed fo runder market value? what are you basing this on or is it just your opinion?
