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GM of the year? or Stanley Cup or Bust

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Old
12-09-2010, 12:03 PM
  #451
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
We just keep getting so lucky. Lucky us. Lucky to have the worst man-games lost every regular season. Lucky to lose our starting goalie 25 games in when we are tops in the conference. We just keep getting so lucky.

Here is something that is not luck. This ENTIRE team was constucted for playoff success. The Washington Capitals are constructed for playoff failure. Which would you prefer?
rofl. Did you really just insinuate that the Caps are worse then us or not built for the playoffs? Yes, a potential perennial first place seed isn't build for the playoffs. Keep thinking that.

We're built for the playoffs in the sense that this team was built to win now, but they haven't proven themselves as a top playoff team post-lockout. We haven't proven ourselves anymore then the Caps have in the playoffs.

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12-09-2010, 12:03 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
yep and hedberg is better than leighton. they brought hedberg in to imo play more than the typical backup role this year. i think they wanted to redcue marty's games and have a quality guy they can depend on(also in case of injury). Hedberg is more dependable than your avergae boucher, leighton, and other backups imo.
He is better, but the cost to production situation is quite different if you're talking about a backup v. a starter. Some of this is just the emphasis the GM is placing on the position, but it's difficult to argue that Boucher (who is a good citizen and solid vet backup) is grossly overpaid or anything in that scheme.

There's something to be said for value in a good teammate, especially when you're talking about a backup goalie.

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12-09-2010, 12:03 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
We just keep getting so lucky. Lucky us. Lucky to have the worst man-games lost every regular season. Lucky to lose our starting goalie 25 games in when we are tops in the conference. We just keep getting so lucky.

Here is something that is not luck. This ENTIRE team was constucted for playoff success. The Washington Capitals are constructed for playoff failure. Which would you prefer?
Well playoff success, that you say the flyers were built for, ended in failure did it not? all the flyers players saved were a few bucks by not having to golf earlier than usual. The flyers have a better team than the caps but they would have lost that series. you think leighton would have perfromed well against them?

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12-09-2010, 12:06 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I disagree. As a fan, I enjoy the wins. I would much prefer to be a Flyer fan as opposed to an Islanders fan. I guess you disagree.
that wasnt the question.

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12-09-2010, 12:12 PM
  #455
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that wasnt the question.
Sure it was. YOu said we are the same as the other 28 teams. Stupid statement, just thought I would point it out. Being a FLyer fan as opposed to a southern belt fan, Islander fan, etc is completely different. Our success is the reason for our passion. You make it sound like it means nothing. And perhaps it does to someone like you. It means everything to me.

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12-09-2010, 01:22 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Sure it was. YOu said we are the same as the other 28 teams. Stupid statement, just thought I would point it out. Being a FLyer fan as opposed to a southern belt fan, Islander fan, etc is completely different. Our success is the reason for our passion. You make it sound like it means nothing. And perhaps it does to someone like you. It means everything to me.
Correct i said the flyers where the same as the other 28 teams that dont win the cup. Not a stupid statement. Just thought i would point that out.

You then you said you would much prefer to be a flyer fan than an isles fan. They are 2 differen things my man.

One has nothing to do with the other.

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12-09-2010, 01:33 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Correct i said the flyers where the same as the other 28 teams that dont win the cup. Not a stupid statement. Just thought i would point that out.

You then you said you would much prefer to be a flyer fan than an isles fan. They are 2 differen things my man.

One has nothing to do with the other.
And as I said, they are not in the same boat. One team wins the cup. Two teams make the finals. Four teams make the semis. 16 teams make the playoffs. 5 teams get a shot at the 1st overall pick. All teams are in very different boats. We are lucky enough to be 1 of 2 teams. We have a banner in the building to show for it.

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12-09-2010, 01:42 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
And as I said, they are not in the same boat. One team wins the cup. Two teams make the finals. Four teams make the semis. 16 teams make the playoffs. 5 teams get a shot at the 1st overall pick. All teams are in very different boats. We are lucky enough to be 1 of 2 teams. We have a banner in the building to show for it.
so they get to hang the 2nd place banner up, nice. 1 team wins the others all lose.

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12-09-2010, 02:10 PM
  #459
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And so we are no different than the Islanders. Got it.

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12-09-2010, 02:17 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
And so we are no different than the Islanders. Got it.
did the flyers win the cup last year? no. Did the isles? no. So yes they are both the same in terms of neither of them won the title.

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12-09-2010, 03:09 PM
  #461
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I can just see the conversation now:

Some Dude "Man your team sucks"
NWO "Don't I know it"

Some Dude "I mean my team lost early but yours lost in the finals"
NWO "I know - sucks to be a Flyers fan"

Some Dude "And Pronger is going to be old in 5 years"
NWO "I know - why can't everyone see that. We are doomed in 5 years"

Some Dude "And you are probably not even going to win a cup. I mean, you should. But what if you dont. Think of the prospects that could be developing in 5 short years"
NWO "Amen brother."

Some Dude "Me and you are the same. I am a huge New Jersey fan. That is why I don't bother going to games or following the team anymore. Not until the Finals anyway"
NWO "I need to re-think my stance"

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12-09-2010, 06:47 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Please verify the way in which this is true, or that Holmgren could have known it was true, short of mind reading or wiretapping. Or just shut up and admit you are wrong, yet again.
Well said

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12-09-2010, 06:51 PM
  #463
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There was a pretty strong opinion at the time that the Flyers paid too much for a dude on an expiring contract.

However, more to the point... negotiating is about reading your opposition and knowing how to get the best possible deal. Sure, it's hard to be good at it. But just because it's hard doesn't mean you can fall back on "oh but he isn't a mind reader..." That's the *ing point man. Good negotiators drive to the best possible bargain... they don't bid against themselves and overpay for what they could have for less.

Holmgren constantly overpays for stuff.
Carter? G? Wrong as usual. What the hell did Paul do you in another life?

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12-09-2010, 06:54 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
And so we are no different than the Islanders. Got it.
I think the owners of each club would disagree with your point here. Think about it for a minute.

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12-09-2010, 09:02 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I think the owners of each club would disagree with your point here. Think about it for a minute.
Read the previous points. It was a shot at NWO who says us going to the finals means nothing more than the other 28 teams that didn't win the cup. I think our run is worth a whole lot more in so many ways. We are on the same page Pete.

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12-09-2010, 09:32 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Read the previous points. It was a shot at NWO who says us going to the finals means nothing more than the other 28 teams that didn't win the cup. I think our run is worth a whole lot more in so many ways. We are on the same page Pete.
There are a lot of people here who think the Cup is the end all be all.

Yes, winning is awesome, but winning is awesome because it's not something easy to do.

HFBoards is full of people who will use a Cup win to determine an individual player's standing over another player, or use the lack of a Cup to determine whether or not a team is better than another.

It's an absolute joke.

Some people say that having an "everyone is a winner" attitude is childish. It is to an extent, but saying that nobody succeeds unless they are number one is ****ing bratty.

Some people need to grow up and be proud of what the Flyers have accomplished. Hope for more, but still recognize what this team is. People take for granted how good we are right now, but I can promise you there's a lot of other organizations that wish they were in our shoes both now and historically even if we only have 2 Cups, the least amount in the division.

We've been the most successful team out of all the Atlantic Division teams, we've been the most successful team in Philadelphia sports' history, and some people here act as if we're the Phoenix Coyotes. It's insane.

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12-09-2010, 10:20 PM
  #467
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Shafer - well put! I live in Ottawa....it is a rough time for fans up here right now! I laugh at the negative tone on here.....but lately, it bothers me. This team deserves our respect. They've earned it

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12-10-2010, 02:50 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Read the previous points. It was a shot at NWO who says us going to the finals means nothing more than the other 28 teams that didn't win the cup. I think our run is worth a whole lot more in so many ways. We are on the same page Pete.
Sorry PF I did not read the previous posts

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12-10-2010, 02:51 AM
  #469
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Right on Chris

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12-10-2010, 07:11 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
There are a lot of people here who think the Cup is the end all be all.

Yes, winning is awesome, but winning is awesome because it's not something easy to do.

HFBoards is full of people who will use a Cup win to determine an individual player's standing over another player, or use the lack of a Cup to determine whether or not a team is better than another.

It's an absolute joke.

Some people say that having an "everyone is a winner" attitude is childish. It is to an extent, but saying that nobody succeeds unless they are number one is ****ing bratty.

Some people need to grow up and be proud of what the Flyers have accomplished. Hope for more, but still recognize what this team is. People take for granted how good we are right now, but I can promise you there's a lot of other organizations that wish they were in our shoes both now and historically even if we only have 2 Cups, the least amount in the division.

We've been the most successful team out of all the Atlantic Division teams, we've been the most successful team in Philadelphia sports' history, and some people here act as if we're the Phoenix Coyotes. It's insane.
Totally agree. Doesn't mean I still can't dislike Homer haha.

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12-10-2010, 07:17 AM
  #471
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Totally agree. Doesn't mean I still can't dislike Homer haha.
That's fine.

Cite things like his cap management during a few isolated incidents, his lack of return value on some of his trades, or even the clauses that he hands out.

Hating him for a supposed "lack of results" or because you don't feel he's done his job to set us up for long-term is just stupid.

In the end, by blaming him for being a bad GM, you're basically saying that you would've done it differently. Be careful when making such a claim, particularly because you're basically saying that with you at the helm we'd have a Cup by now. After all, a Cup is about all Holmgren still has yet to accomplish with this team.

Criticizing particular aspects of his management is fine. Attacking him with no ground to stand on while ignoring facts is not.

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12-10-2010, 07:23 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I can just see the conversation now:

Some Dude "Man your team sucks"
NWO "Don't I know it"

Some Dude "I mean my team lost early but yours lost in the finals"
NWO "I know - sucks to be a Flyers fan"

Some Dude "And Pronger is going to be old in 5 years"
NWO "I know - why can't everyone see that. We are doomed in 5 years"

Some Dude "And you are probably not even going to win a cup. I mean, you should. But what if you dont. Think of the prospects that could be developing in 5 short years"
NWO "Amen brother."

Some Dude "Me and you are the same. I am a huge New Jersey fan. That is why I don't bother going to games or following the team anymore. Not until the Finals anyway"
NWO "I need to re-think my stance"
Listen Richard, a very weak attempt at trying to be funny. Put a little more effort and try to make me laugh. Donít put out this garbage. Then again it is clear you have a comprehension problem so I understand. As usual you miss the point and have no idea what youíre talking about.

Unlike you, having been born, raised, and lived the majority of my life in Phila. I have seen plenty of runs. It has been over 30+ years and no cup. So donít preach to me last year was a good run and all that jazz. Seen it before(obviously not the boston series).This organization should have had several cups since 75. I am tired of coming up short, so for me if they dont win the cup nothing else matters. Tired of excuses. Seen way to many 2nd place finishes and the like. They set the bar and anything less is failure for the most part (depends on the circumstances). So you be happy with being cupless every year as it will eventually wear off as I assume youíre very young, if your not then that is sad and donít know what to tell you.

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12-10-2010, 07:26 AM
  #473
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I don't think Homer will be the GM of the year. He's not ****ed up enough to be fired or anything either.

I was really, really mad at him about the Gagnť debacle. He was my favourite Flyer and had been so for a decade so it got a little emotional, but mostly it was because Homer backed himself into a corner. Again. There was no reason for us to be in a situation where we had to get back under the cap this past summer, and after the Gauthier, Upshall-Metro-Vššnšnen, Jones episodes Homer really should have learned to avoid those.

He's also saved somewhat by the fortunate injury to Michael Leighton. Without that, Bobrovsky would currently be wondering why the hell he crossed the pond to play for the worst team in the AHL... Seriously, there was one really glaring need for us during the off season. Get a ****ing goalie! I don't believe for one minute that anyone in the Flyers management thought Bobrovsky would be the answer this season. So to come back with a tandem of Leighton/Boucher again, that was just ridiculous.

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12-10-2010, 07:45 AM
  #474
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Nwo - wasn't meant to be funny. It is the truth!

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12-10-2010, 07:46 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That's fine.

Cite things like his cap management during a few isolated incidents, his lack of return value on some of his trades, or even the clauses that he hands out.

Hating him for a supposed "lack of results" or because you don't feel he's done his job to set us up for long-term is just stupid.

In the end, by blaming him for being a bad GM, you're basically saying that you would've done it differently. Be careful when making such a claim, particularly because you're basically saying that with you at the helm we'd have a Cup by now. After all, a Cup is about all Holmgren still has yet to accomplish with this team.

Criticizing particular aspects of his management is fine. Attacking him with no ground to stand on while ignoring facts is not.
Totally agree except for the bolded.

I think you CAN hate on a GM for not setting up a team for the long term. Lack of results...no, because the players have to win. The GM can only put together the best team he can. But I can and will blame a GM for ignoring the long term...otherwise they are just being selfish. The long term is a massive part of being a GM imo.

Yes, I am saying (in my criticism) that I would have done certain things differently, but that certainly doesn't mean we would have a cup. GM's can only put their team in the best position possible to win. The players have to win. And that's also why I don't like judging things solely on winning the Cup. Also, even if I would have done certain things differently, we don't know how they would have worked out. Maybe I'd make equally idiotic moves...just different ones.

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