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GM of the year? or Stanley Cup or Bust

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Old
12-15-2010, 03:00 PM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
He is a young captain. Chris Pronger's presense in the room distracted him last year. Firing Stevens was very hard on him. It doesn't take much for a team and player relationship to sour. Look at Dany Heatley. He was the Ottawa Senators, then a spat with the coach, a few words in the media.....and that organization will be 5 years before it recovers. You don't make decisions that will not be popular with your franchise players without thinking those decisions through. Homer fired Stevens after he gave it time to correct itself. Us fans wanted him axed, the players wanted him to stay. When it became clear it couldn't be fixed, Homer fired him. It was a tough decision.
Give me a break. His presence distracted him, what a joke. Maybe his outside activities distracted him. Firing stevens was hard because he know knew the party was over so to speak. He was part of the reason stevens was fired. He was part of the country club. Who cares about heatley much like you said who cares about shooter in hartford. Players wanted him to stay not because he was a good coach, because he was a pushover.

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12-15-2010, 03:03 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
We will be back in the same place. The odds on favorite to win the Stanley Cup. Poor us.
Which means squat. Then again if they gave a trophy for who has been the odds on favorite cup contender over the years the flyers would clearly have several of them.

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12-15-2010, 03:04 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Please go find those quotes.

My argument last summer was that we were not going to find a long-term solution in goal, and what we were going to get was mediocre.... but mediocre was better than what I expected from Leighton. So I preferred those guys to Leighton to hold the fort while we waited to see what we had with Bob (who no one expected to be ready this year).

No one ever argued that Turco was "awesome" or going to be a worldbeater for us. Just that he was a safer bet than Michael *ing Leighton.

I didn't read the rest of it, because if you're going to make **** up, you don't deserve the respect of reading the rest of your drivel.
I remember quite clearly how passionate you were about Turco and how good he was a couple of years ago in the playoffs and how he isn't a choker and would work in Philly. My point is not that the argument was "dumb" (it is a perfectly reasonable argument) it is that this summer did not have much options. We signed Leighton after exploring Turco and Nabokov.

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12-15-2010, 03:07 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
He is a young captain. Chris Pronger's presense in the room distracted him last year. Firing Stevens was very hard on him. It doesn't take much for a team and player relationship to sour. Look at Dany Heatley. He was the Ottawa Senators, then a spat with the coach, a few words in the media.....and that organization will be 5 years before it recovers. You don't make decisions that will not be popular with your franchise players without thinking those decisions through. Homer fired Stevens after he gave it time to correct itself. Us fans wanted him axed, the players wanted him to stay. When it became clear it couldn't be fixed, Homer fired him. It was a tough decision.
You abso-*ing-lutely do if its in the best interest of the franchise.

Dany Heatley is a *ing tool... I'm not sure why you would use him as an appropriate measure of how an organization should operate in relation to a brat.

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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
We will be back in the same place. The odds on favorite to win the Stanley Cup. Poor us.
We're the odds on favorite to win the Stanley Cup now? A team with a rookie goalie that is spending his first year in N.A. is the "odds on favorite to win the Stanley Cup?"

OK.

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12-15-2010, 03:08 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I remember quite clearly how passionate you were about Turco and how good he was a couple of years ago in the playoffs and how he isn't a choker and would work in Philly. My point is not that the argument was "dumb" (it is a perfectly reasonable argument) it is that this summer did not have much options. We signed Leighton after exploring Turco and Nabokov.
We signed Leighton prior to July 1st. We didn't explore ****.

And there's a big difference to your backpedaling and what you just said.

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12-15-2010, 03:09 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Which means squat. Then again if they gave a trophy for who has been the odds on favorite cup contender over the years the flyers would clearly have several of them.
It means that we have a good chance to win a Stanley Cup. That is the GM's job NWO. It he hires the right coach and puts the players on the ice capable of winning it all, he has done his job. There are many things along the way that need to align before you win it all. This team is good enough to win the cup. WIll they? Noboby knows that.

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12-15-2010, 03:12 PM
  #607
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Well we did get rights to Turco and Nabby prior to July 1, but they suffered from Biron-itis thinking they were worth more than they were

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12-15-2010, 03:14 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We signed Leighton prior to July 1st. We didn't explore ****.

And there's a big difference to your backpedaling and what you just said.
After getting the rights to Nabokov and Turco. Whom else did we need to explore? Ellis? Mason? Nitty? None have proven they can succeed as the starter of a cup contending team. Leighton had a great year with us, numbers wise followed by a playoff run. No reason to think he couldn't do it again.

You make it sound like the GM had an easy path. My point on my previous comment is simple. You thought Turco was the guy (You did right?) - he isn't. Looking back, many of us thought Meszaros was a bad move and have since changed our mind. Many thought we gave up too much for Pronger and changed our mind. In looking at how the offseason goalies are doing, it isn't like Homer made the wrong decison.

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12-15-2010, 03:16 PM
  #609
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Funny that you pimp Leighton when he hasn't even played 1 game this year, and the last NHL goal he let in was ****ing brutal. You can't say keeping Leighton was a good idea at this point.

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12-15-2010, 03:18 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Well we did get rights to Turco and Nabby prior to July 1, but they suffered from Biron-itis thinking they were worth more than they were
We (supposedly) offered Turco a really modest three-year deal. Turco was wise to turn that down at that point. We could have easily re-visited him on the other side and gotten him for a very modest deal.

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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
After getting the rights to Nabokov and Turco. Whom else did we need to explore? Ellis? Mason? Nitty? None have proven they can succeed as the starter of a cup contending team. Leighton had a great year with us, numbers wise followed by a playoff run. No reason to think he couldn't do it again.
Outside of his entire career playing professional hockey.

Quote:
You make it sound like the GM had an easy path. My point on my previous comment is simple. You thought Turco was the guy (You did right?) - he isn't. Looking back, many of us thought Meszaros was a bad move and have since changed our mind. Many thought we gave up too much for Pronger and changed our mind. In looking at how the offseason goalies are doing, it isn't like Homer made the wrong decison.
I thought Turco was a good option, and I think he'd be fine behind this team. Look at the numbers Boucher is putting up right now. Did I think Turco was a worldbeater? No, I didn't.

It isn't like Homer made the wrong decision... the decision he made hasn't played in a single game yet!!!!

The decision Homer could have made last summer and he would deserve praise for now would have been deciding that Bob/Boucher was good enough and they were going to go with that.

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12-15-2010, 03:23 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
After getting the rights to Nabokov and Turco. Whom else did we need to explore? Ellis? Mason? Nitty? None have proven they can succeed as the starter of a cup contending team. Leighton had a great year with us, numbers wise followed by a playoff run. No reason to think he couldn't do it again.

You make it sound like the GM had an easy path. My point on my previous comment is simple. You thought Turco was the guy (You did right?) - he isn't. Looking back, many of us thought Meszaros was a bad move and have since changed our mind. Many thought we gave up too much for Pronger and changed our mind. In looking at how the offseason goalies are doing, it isn't like Homer made the wrong decison.
No reason to think he couldn’t do it again? Really? I guess what he did or lack there of in the past is meaningless. Well your GM of the year had a plan to have the best top 6 dman in the league. Every goalie you mention above is and has always been better than Leighton. So why not talk to them seeing how Leighton crapped the bed in the finals. You don’t need a great goalie right, just a good one. Who is to say turco couldn’t have been the guy here playing behind this d and team overall. We will never know will we? when leighton took over, were the flyers a cup contending team? guess that depends on how you define a cup contending team.

Mezaros was a move that was not needed regardless how he has played and I am not talking about the 2nd pick they gave up.


the gm had a simple task this summer.he turned into an adventure and mad eit more complicated then he needed to by far.

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12-15-2010, 03:55 PM
  #612
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Leighton was GREAT FOR US LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leighton played in 27 games was 16-5-2 with a 2.48 GAA and a .918 save percentage
Emery played in 29 games was 16-11-1 with a 2.64 GAA and a .905 save percentage
Boucher played in 33 games was 9-18-3 with a 2.76 GAA and a .899 save percentage

Career backup my arse. He was outstanding last year minus three games against Chicago. Why does everyone think he is going to suck starting now? Three years ago he won the award for best goalie in the AHL. Two years ago he is a servicable backup in Carolina with a .901 GAA 19 wins 14 losses. Last year he is waived in Carolina and picked up by us and plays GREAT. He deserved that contract and as everyone to a man agrees, we didn't need a long term solution in net we thought Bob was that guy. Leighton was the solution for this year and maybe next with Bob/Joacim as the future.

I thought it was a good plan in the summer, it seems like it is working now, but for some reason those that think that way are just silly Homer Agologists. If Homer would have signed Turco for 3+ years at 3+ million, then I wouldn't be making excuses.....I would be furious. He didn't, and I think staying put with the goalies and upgrading our D was the appropriate decision.

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12-15-2010, 05:34 PM
  #613
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phillyfanatic just said that Leighton isn't a career backup despite the fact that he is, doesn't understand why Leighton sucks, and acted as if the AHL goalie of the year award means something.

I don't think there's any reason to try and argue with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Well we did get rights to Turco and Nabby prior to July 1, but they suffered from Biron-itis thinking they were worth more than they were
That's why you play out the market...or at least wait for the market to actually open up. Every goalie that was asking for too much was going to realize that they weren't going to get the money they wanted eventually. That was proven. Literally all Holmgren had to do was wait the market out and throw out decent offers. There were a slew of goalies available and most, if not all, of them were better then Leighton. Especially an injured Leighton.

He threw a couple of offers that, at the time, were considered low-ball offers by the two goalies and then he said "**** it" and signed an injured career backup to be our starter. I'm not even sure if him not knowing Leighton was injured is a good or bad thing, but w/e.

There's really no defending Holmgren's off-season moves in regards to NHL goaltending. None.

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12-15-2010, 05:41 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Leighton was GREAT FOR US LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leighton played in 27 games was 16-5-2 with a 2.48 GAA and a .918 save percentage
Emery played in 29 games was 16-11-1 with a 2.64 GAA and a .905 save percentage
Boucher played in 33 games was 9-18-3 with a 2.76 GAA and a .899 save percentage
Tim Thomas has played 20 games of .954 SVPCT this year.

I will guarantee you that if he plays 40 games, his SVPCT will not be .954 at that point.

This point probably went completely over your head, but that's your problem... not mine.

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Career backup my arse. He was outstanding last year minus three games against Chicago. Why does everyone think he is going to suck starting now? Three years ago he won the award for best goalie in the AHL. Two years ago he is a servicable backup in Carolina with a .901 GAA 19 wins 14 losses. Last year he is waived in Carolina and picked up by us and plays GREAT. He deserved that contract and as everyone to a man agrees, we didn't need a long term solution in net we thought Bob was that guy. Leighton was the solution for this year and maybe next with Bob/Joacim as the future.
Has he EVER been a starter for a team (not in the AHL) over the course of an entire season? There are two potential things going on here:

1) You don't know what "career" means.

2) You are purposefully being obtuse because you don't want to deal with reality.

Quote:
I thought it was a good plan in the summer, it seems like it is working now, but for some reason those that think that way are just silly Homer Agologists. If Homer would have signed Turco for 3+ years at 3+ million, then I wouldn't be making excuses.....I would be furious. He didn't, and I think staying put with the goalies and upgrading our D was the appropriate decision.
Phillyfanatic, he hasn't played a single game yet this season. You realize how dumb that statement is? Bob is working out fantastically. Boucher is playing well. Leighton hasn't played a single *ing game. How is that signing "working now"?

I, too, would be furious if Homer signed Turco for 3 years at 3+ million... given that he and every other goalie on the market last summer went for well below that.

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12-15-2010, 06:02 PM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
After getting the rights to Nabokov and Turco. Whom else did we need to explore? Ellis? Mason? Nitty? None have proven they can succeed as the starter of a cup contending team. Leighton had a great year with us, numbers wise followed by a playoff run. No reason to think he couldn't do it again.

You make it sound like the GM had an easy path. My point on my previous comment is simple. You thought Turco was the guy (You did right?) - he isn't. Looking back, many of us thought Meszaros was a bad move and have since changed our mind. Many thought we gave up too much for Pronger and changed our mind. In looking at how the offseason goalies are doing, it isn't like Homer made the wrong decison.
I assume you didn't watch the Finals or hear about his surgery.

edit: or know anything else about the rest of his entire NHL career.

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12-15-2010, 06:05 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Leighton was GREAT FOR US LAST YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leighton played in 27 games was 16-5-2 with a 2.48 GAA and a .918 save percentage
Emery played in 29 games was 16-11-1 with a 2.64 GAA and a .905 save percentage
Boucher played in 33 games was 9-18-3 with a 2.76 GAA and a .899 save percentage

Career backup my arse. He was outstanding last year minus three games against Chicago. Why does everyone think he is going to suck starting now? Three years ago he won the award for best goalie in the AHL. Two years ago he is a servicable backup in Carolina with a .901 GAA 19 wins 14 losses. Last year he is waived in Carolina and picked up by us and plays GREAT. He deserved that contract and as everyone to a man agrees, we didn't need a long term solution in net we thought Bob was that guy. Leighton was the solution for this year and maybe next with Bob/Joacim as the future.

I thought it was a good plan in the summer, it seems like it is working now, but for some reason those that think that way are just silly Homer Agologists. If Homer would have signed Turco for 3+ years at 3+ million, then I wouldn't be making excuses.....I would be furious. He didn't, and I think staying put with the goalies and upgrading our D was the appropriate decision.

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12-15-2010, 06:10 PM
  #617
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I just saw that post. I can not believe what I'm reading. I guess he forgets that Boosh had to go in to cover for Leighton at least 3 times to absorb a loss.

Leighton was average. The thing is...being "average" is a massive upgrade over the rest of his career. Don't expect his average stats to continue in a new season after surgery.

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12-15-2010, 06:36 PM
  #618
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Leighton did well because he is a big goalie who can usually make the first save, and we had a good D. Otherwise he was inconsistent at best

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12-15-2010, 09:39 PM
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It is so funny. I just finished watching the Canadian Broadcast of the Flyers-Habs game. And all I heard from the panel was:

1. Holmgren should be in jail for the robbery of other teams assets
2. Flyers are the best team in the NHL
3. Laviolette is the best coach in the NHL
4. Flyers have the best defense in the NHL
5. Andrej Meszaros was a huge pickup for the Flyers
6. Flyers have the most dangerous top 9 forwards in the NHL

Mike Peca, Bob Mckenzie, Pierre Mcguire, Gord Miller, Ray Ferraro - you guys are so clueless. Just read the Flyer boards, Flyer fans here have nothing good to say about our team. Focus on the negative TSN - what about the Jody Shelley signing, What about Randy Jones, what about the first round picks that they could have developing in the minors as we speak instead of Chris Pronger on D. Focus on how unproven Bob is. Focus on who bad Leighton was as a backup in Carolina. Come on TSN - these are the issues Flyer fans want to focus on.

Hey Jester - Tim Thomas has been amazing this year, no two ways about it. You want to make 27 games sound like nothing? OK then - how many playoff games do you usually play to win a Stanley Cup?

Wake up - you have the best team in the NHL. STOP speaking about them in purely negative terms. Am I the only one frustrated by these negative posters? Where is the thread for Claude Giroux talking about how great he is? Where is the MIke Richards is the best two way player in the NHL thread? Where is the Chris Pronger should win the Norris Thread.

Silly me. When I came to the hfboards, that is what I thought I would see. You know, since we have a great team and all. Sorry - it is very obvious that my positive attitude towards this team, the GM that built the team from scratch and the players who took us within 2 wins of a Stanley Cup last June greatly offends you.

This is not the place for positive thoughts.

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12-15-2010, 10:21 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
It is so funny. I just finished watching the Canadian Broadcast of the Flyers-Habs game. And all I heard from the panel was:

1. Holmgren should be in jail for the robbery of other teams assets
2. Flyers are the best team in the NHL
3. Laviolette is the best coach in the NHL
4. Flyers have the best defense in the NHL
5. Andrej Meszaros was a huge pickup for the Flyers
6. Flyers have the most dangerous top 9 forwards in the NHL

Mike Peca, Bob Mckenzie, Pierre Mcguire, Gord Miller, Ray Ferraro - you guys are so clueless. Just read the Flyer boards, Flyer fans here have nothing good to say about our team. .....

This is not the place for positive thoughts.
Kumbaya, m'lord, kumbaya....

You forgot about the raving about how good Bobrovsky was and how Carter was the best player on the ice (McGuire's Monster)...

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12-15-2010, 10:22 PM
  #621
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or you can focus on both the good and the bad, instead of just drinking the koolaid

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12-15-2010, 10:38 PM
  #622
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Homer also said Shelley would be a fan favorite.

Just another way he was wrong


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12-15-2010, 10:39 PM
  #623
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Homer also said Lappy was a faceoff ace, at career 40-something percent, and a winger

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12-15-2010, 10:41 PM
  #624
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He also tried really, really hard to go through this entire season with Leighton and Boosh as the goalie tandem.

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12-16-2010, 12:26 AM
  #625
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
It is so funny. I just finished watching the Canadian Broadcast of the Flyers-Habs game. And all I heard from the panel was:

1. Holmgren should be in jail for the robbery of other teams assets
2. Flyers are the best team in the NHL
3. Laviolette is the best coach in the NHL
4. Flyers have the best defense in the NHL
5. Andrej Meszaros was a huge pickup for the Flyers
6. Flyers have the most dangerous top 9 forwards in the NHL

Mike Peca, Bob Mckenzie, Pierre Mcguire, Gord Miller, Ray Ferraro - you guys are so clueless. Just read the Flyer boards, Flyer fans here have nothing good to say about our team. Focus on the negative TSN - what about the Jody Shelley signing, What about Randy Jones, what about the first round picks that they could have developing in the minors as we speak instead of Chris Pronger on D. Focus on how unproven Bob is. Focus on who bad Leighton was as a backup in Carolina. Come on TSN - these are the issues Flyer fans want to focus on.

Hey Jester - Tim Thomas has been amazing this year, no two ways about it. You want to make 27 games sound like nothing? OK then - how many playoff games do you usually play to win a Stanley Cup?

Wake up - you have the best team in the NHL. STOP speaking about them in purely negative terms. Am I the only one frustrated by these negative posters? Where is the thread for Claude Giroux talking about how great he is? Where is the MIke Richards is the best two way player in the NHL thread? Where is the Chris Pronger should win the Norris Thread.

Silly me. When I came to the hfboards, that is what I thought I would see. You know, since we have a great team and all. Sorry - it is very obvious that my positive attitude towards this team, the GM that built the team from scratch and the players who took us within 2 wins of a Stanley Cup last June greatly offends you.

This is not the place for positive thoughts.
Objectivity and negativity are not the same thing, dude.

Just because someone points out egregious errors in Holmgren's management does not mean we dislike our team, or don't think he's done some things very well.

There are shades of gray. You seem to think that every good move and the fact that we're #1 in the league less than halfway through the season - a TOTALLY MEANINGLESS "ACCOMPLISHMENT" - absolves every bad thing he's done. Most of us are just looking at both sides of the coin, and pointing out ways things could have gone better to get us where we are. There's nothing wrong with being OBJECTIVE. Everything isn't all good or all bad.

If your girlfriend/wife/whatever goes down on you and then ***** in your coffee five minutes later, are you going to completely ignore the bad because you got to feel like number one in the league for a few minutes? Probably not. You're allowed to point out the room for improvement without being deemed a "hater."


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