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Old
11-29-2010, 12:16 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Bieksa for Filatov and send him to the Moose.......

Clear your damn cap space.
Nikki won't play in the AHL.

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11-29-2010, 12:22 AM
  #27
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Undervaluing Bieksa. Boyd-freakin'-Gordon and a 3rd?

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11-29-2010, 12:22 AM
  #28
AlvintheChoster
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Please... no one suggest they trade Bieksa for a 'decent' 4th liner...
Why? That is our greatest need, we are in a "win now" mode, and would take a upgrade at our greatest flaw over a prospect. We are at the end of November, and we have already had Rypien, Bliznak, Bolduc, and Perrault as our 4th line C's (I know injurys, suspensions, but Gordon/Steckel is better than all four OVERALL as a 4th liner). It would be nice to have a solid 4th line C that can PK (not really needed but a bonus), win faceoffs, and chip in a goal from time to time. Especially if you consider that Bieksa is a solid #3 or 4 guy on most teams, and would not grab someone like Filatov, that is most likely NOT to bust. He could grab a 3rd or a 2nd liner, but our top-9 is pretty much set. Taking cap into account, it will be even harder to get a top-9 player without exceeding the cap. Of course, we could package someone else with him, (Raymond, Schnieder, whatever) but I am not proposing that. Therefore, the pick evens the trade out, as Bieksa is better than a 4th liner. Also, with the addition of Gordon/Steckel, the Canucks would probably be the best faceoff team in the league.

Kesler
Malholtra
Gordon/Steckel

are all in the leaders in the faceoff circle.

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Old
11-29-2010, 12:28 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windflare View Post
Undervaluing Bieksa. Boyd-freakin'-Gordon and a 3rd?
What do you think Bieksa ALONE could get?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Nikki won't play in the AHL.
Columbus wouldn't do that trade anyways. I'm pretty sure the media screwed up because Columbus ended up saying they wanted Hodgson for Filatov.

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11-29-2010, 12:30 AM
  #30
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I think Ehrhoff has more market value than Bieksa. It doesn't sound like he will re-sign here, wanting to test FA.

I'd like to have Pahlsson for the fourth center. He can cover Malhotra's spot, in the event of Malhotra not being availible. I think this would solidify the line-up, leaving no weak lines.

Columbus fans think Ehrhoff is a gross overpayment for Pahlsson and want to know what they would have to add!

If this is a deadline deal, what I am suggesting is doable. Three months of Ehrhoff for Pahlsson, who is signed through next season at $2.65m.

There is also about $450k going out the door.

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11-29-2010, 12:42 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I think Ehrhoff has more market value than Bieksa. It doesn't sound like he will re-sign here, wanting to test FA.

I'd like to have Pahlsson for the fourth center. He can cover Malhotra's spot, in the event of Malhotra not being availible. I think this would solidify the line-up, leaving no weak lines.

Columbus fans think Ehrhoff is a gross overpayment for Pahlsson and want to know what they would have to add!

If this is a deadline deal, what I am suggesting is doable. Three months of Ehrhoff for Pahlsson, who is signed through next season at $2.65m.

There is also about $450k going out the door.
I hope you're not proposing the Canucks move a top pairing defenseman for a $2.65mil, 4th line centre? That's the worst idea I've heard in ages and I'm a Pahlsson fan...

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11-29-2010, 12:43 AM
  #32
AlvintheChoster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
I think Ehrhoff has more market value than Bieksa. It doesn't sound like he will re-sign here, wanting to test FA.

I'd like to have Pahlsson for the fourth center. He can cover Malhotra's spot, in the event of Malhotra not being availible. I think this would solidify the line-up, leaving no weak lines.

Columbus fans think Ehrhoff is a gross overpayment for Pahlsson and want to know what they would have to add!

If this is a deadline deal, what I am suggesting is doable. Three months of Ehrhoff for Pahlsson, who is signed through next season at $2.65m.

There is also about $450k going out the door.
1. Pahlsson would be great too. But, the whole point of trading someone is to clear cap when Salo returns. You say that is $450k going out the door, however we need to clear $3.5 MILLION. Also, you say Columbus will need to add, which they would, but that ADDITION would be more than $450k, unless it is a pick, which Vancouver would not take because they are in "win-now" mode and basically for this year it would only be Erhoff for Pahlsson.

2. Also, this is more of a personal opinion, but I think we would want to go after a 4th line C that is signed for only 1 more year because who knows, maybe Bolduc or Bliznak can step up next year and take over the 4th line C full time. Or Malholtra will be pushed down with the emergence of Hodgson. Or whoever. (Not likely IMO but you never know)

3. Erhoff has said he would like to stay in Vancouver.

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11-29-2010, 12:45 AM
  #33
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Ehrhoff for Pahlsson? No, thats terrible.

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Old
11-29-2010, 12:53 AM
  #34
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Why is our pressing need a 4th line center? The best thing to do is add another 2ndliner/3rdliner and push people down the depth chart. That's the best way to get value out of Bieksa and out of your line-up. We saw how having Torres and Hansen on the 4th line has looked. We just need a reliable player who can win face-offs as our 4th line C. And it looks like Bolduc and Perrault can be that player.

*I am not suggesting in getting Fleishmann as he sucks.

I wouldn't trade Bieksa for a 4thliner and picks. That's just counter productive to winning the cup. If I'm trading Bieksa, I'm trading him for another gritty 3rd line player in a Torres/Hansen build. Not a perimeter player in the mold or Raymond/Fleishmann/Tambelinni.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond Kesler Tambellini
3rd line player Malhotra Samuelsson
Torres Perrault/Bolduc Hansen

*playoffs, you also have the option of creating a checking line while having a strong 4th line again.

Although unlikely, should Salo return. I am positive there would be no problem convincing Salo to stay on the LTIR and wait for the post season. And once we get to that spot. Salo would be our 7th defensemen.

Edler Ehrhoff
Hamhuis Ballard
Alberts Bieksa
Rome Salo

This IMO is the best route to go.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:00 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlvintheChoster View Post
What do you think Bieksa ALONE could get?
Andy Sutton, then 34/5, fetched a 2nd rounder.

Joe Corvo, almost as old as Sutton at 32/3, fetched:

D Brian Pothier
F Oskar Osala
2nd-Round Pick (2011)

... despite never having a season as productive as Bieksa.


Bieksa in his prime, young, UFA next year for cap flexibility, can be traded near the trade deadline...

... gets a fourth line center to be UFA that isn't exactly a Steckel/Betts, and a 3rd rounder?

Not exactly the best value he can fetch.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:03 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by quysauce View Post
Why is our pressing need a 4th line center? The best thing to do is add another 2ndliner/3rdliner and push people down the depth chart. That's the best way to get value out of Bieksa and out of your line-up. We saw how having Torres and Hansen on the 4th line has looked. We just need a reliable player who can win face-offs as our 4th line C. And it looks like Bolduc and Perrault can be that player.

*I am not suggesting in getting Fleishmann as he sucks.

I wouldn't trade Bieksa for a 4thliner and picks. That's just counter productive to winning the cup. If I'm trading Bieksa, I'm trading him for another gritty 3rd line player in a Torres/Hansen build. Not a perimeter player in the mold or Raymond/Fleishmann/Tambelinni.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond Kesler Tambellini
3rd line player Malhotra Samuelsson
Torres Perrault/Bolduc Hansen

*playoffs, you also have the option of creating a checking line while having a strong 4th line again.

Although unlikely, should Salo return. I am positive there would be no problem convincing Salo to stay on the LTIR and wait for the post season. And once we get to that spot. Salo would be our 7th defensemen.

Edler Ehrhoff
Hamhuis Ballard
Alberts Bieksa
Rome Salo

This IMO is the best route to go.
Okay, why would we have Salo behind Bieksa AND Alberts.... in the playoffs no less... Unless he has proven he cannot play well because of his injury or whatever, I don't understand that...

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11-29-2010, 01:03 AM
  #37
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Isnt the point of trading Bieksa for Cap relief for when Salo is ready? At this point, it's a 2nd rd pick or a decent prospect that we may be hoping for in return.

If he's being shopped for a bottom 6 player, I'd hope that it's for someone who is gritty and has decent hands. unfortunately Ladd is the ATL captain now so he isnt going anywhere.

But that still wouldnt solve their cap woes.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:07 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windflare View Post
Andy Sutton, then 34/5, fetched a 2nd rounder.

Joe Corvo, almost as old as Sutton at 32/3, fetched:

D Brian Pothier
F Oskar Osala
2nd-Round Pick (2011)

... despite never having a season as productive as Bieksa.


Bieksa in his prime, young, UFA next year for cap flexibility, can be traded near the trade deadline...

... gets a fourth line center to be UFA that isn't exactly a Steckel/Betts, and a 3rd rounder?

Not exactly the best value he can fetch.
Wisniewski fetched a 3rd and he's pretty comparable.

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11-29-2010, 01:15 AM
  #39
AlvintheChoster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windflare View Post
Andy Sutton, then 34/5, fetched a 2nd rounder.

Joe Corvo, almost as old as Sutton at 32/3, fetched:

D Brian Pothier
F Oskar Osala
2nd-Round Pick (2011)

... despite never having a season as productive as Bieksa.


Bieksa in his prime, young, UFA next year for cap flexibility, can be traded near the trade deadline...

... gets a fourth line center to be UFA that isn't exactly a Steckel/Betts, and a 3rd rounder?

Not exactly the best value he can fetch.
Some Caps fans said they would actually rather trade Steckel and a 3rd than Gordon and a 3rd. Just saying...

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:28 AM
  #40
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Wisniewski fetched a 3rd and he's pretty comparable.
That's a trade that I don't understand from Anaheim's perspective. It wreaks of a pissing match between Murray and Wizneiwski. The arbitration didn't go well I'd imagine.


Would you say Ballard is much better than Wiz?

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:49 AM
  #41
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Okay, why would we have Salo behind Bieksa AND Alberts.... in the playoffs no less... Unless he has proven he cannot play well because of his injury or whatever, I don't understand that...
Have you ever felt a ruptured Achilles tendon? Salo himself said he couldn't even walk for a couple months. The idea is keep Bieksa and Salo. The problem is we get Salo back into practice but we can't get him game-time experience before he playoffs. If AV feels Salo is good enough to play well in the playoffs, Great. Salo and Bieksa during the playoffs would be amazing. But we assume that Salo is injured and we keep him behind players who have played a full season and are 100% ready for the playoffs. Clear enough for you?

LT;DR. 100% Game shape Alberts and/or Bieksa > Unsure Salo for the playoffs.

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11-29-2010, 01:51 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AlvintheChoster View Post
Some Caps fans said they would actually rather trade Steckel and a 3rd than Gordon and a 3rd. Just saying...
The point is, too little.

As for Wizneiwski, arbitration pissing match + he's not as proven as Bieksa when he was traded = fail value when traded.

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11-29-2010, 01:57 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlvintheChoster View Post
Why? That is our greatest need, we are in a "win now" mode, and would take a upgrade at our greatest flaw over a prospect. We are at the end of November, and we have already had Rypien, Bliznak, Bolduc, and Perrault as our 4th line C's (I know injurys, suspensions, but Gordon/Steckel is better than all four OVERALL as a 4th liner). It would be nice to have a solid 4th line C that can PK (not really needed but a bonus), win faceoffs, and chip in a goal from time to time. Especially if you consider that Bieksa is a solid #3 or 4 guy on most teams, and would not grab someone like Filatov, that is most likely NOT to bust. He could grab a 3rd or a 2nd liner, but our top-9 is pretty much set. Taking cap into account, it will be even harder to get a top-9 player without exceeding the cap. Of course, we could package someone else with him, (Raymond, Schnieder, whatever) but I am not proposing that. Therefore, the pick evens the trade out, as Bieksa is better than a 4th liner. Also, with the addition of Gordon/Steckel, the Canucks would probably be the best faceoff team in the league.

Kesler
Malholtra
Gordon/Steckel

are all in the leaders in the faceoff circle.
First of all, I am absolutely dumbfounded you want to trade a player who could - in a packaged deal - fetch a decent prospect/top 6 or top end 3rd liner for a 4th liner. That's just horrible mismanagement of assets.

People on this board are overrating a 'problem' in the 4th line. This is what happens when you have a deep, successful team. If you want to change up the 4th line, go dig someone up in the Moose. Perreault, Oreskovich... go down the list.

You don't trade Bieksa for a bloody 4th liner. Get full value for your asset, this isn't a video game.

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11-29-2010, 02:06 AM
  #44
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Trading bieksa for less salary and a forward at that is a waste of an opportunity.

Go for the JUGular - trade Bieksa for a more expensive yet better Dman and leave Salo off the roster until the playoffs - Canucks could conceivably take on an additional $2M of salary by doing that.

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11-29-2010, 12:00 PM
  #45
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Uhh how so? The Canucks have $500k of space left in their LTIR exemption, which does not (in case you were thinking this) accumulate throughout the season.

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11-29-2010, 12:10 PM
  #46
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Sorry if this has already been asked in one of the many trade threads currently going on, but does Rypien's salary count against the cap right now?

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11-29-2010, 12:19 PM
  #47
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Another option is to trade Bieksa to a playoff contender taking back picks or prospect then trading pick or prospect to team out of the playoff chase. I wonder about Dustin Penner with Edmonton. Of course i would prefer Morrow, Perry, even Doan but i think the addition of a bigger or grittier top 6 player to go with Kesler would really help the team. Penner is not a first line player but would be an upgrade on our second line wingers. As for the forth line center i think Hodgson and Bolduc should be able to fill this hole and the difference between Boyd Gordon and Perrault is not that big.

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Old
11-29-2010, 12:49 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by AlvintheChoster View Post
...Gordon is 800,000 thousand...
That would put us about $799 million over the cap .

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:32 PM
  #49
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Sorry if this has already been asked in one of the many trade threads currently going on, but does Rypien's salary count against the cap right now?
Yeah, it does.

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Old
11-29-2010, 06:02 PM
  #50
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It might not be an entirely popular opinion, but is Bieksa the best option to trade away to create cap space and to provide better depth up front? IMO, he isn't. When looking into the moves that were made this offseason, it seems evident to me that Ballard was acquired since there was no guarantee that Hamhuis would be available or that he would choose the canucks if he did reach free agency. Once he signed here, it seemed that Ballard was somewhat redundant, that was until Salo was injured. The point remains though, can the canucks handle three 4m+ defensemen moving forward? (Ehrhoff will likely become the third one this offseason). Bieksa is a free agent at the end of the year and his price tag is likely less than his current one. Also, it would be simple enough to replace him with a lower cost option in the offseason and to not retain him.

Hockey wise, it would be a challenge to argue that Ballard or Hamhuis for that matter has outplayed Bieksa. Don't get me wrong, IMO, Hamhuis is definitely a better player, but there's no doubt he's struggled since coming back from his foot injury. Ballard's issues so far are well publicized. He's dealing with offseason hip surgery and an early season concussion and playing on the right side. These factors probably mean its not fair to judge him at this point, but given his 4.2m cap hit and another 5 years on his deal, his play is worrisome.

Ballard is hockeywise and capwise, the best trade option on the blue line. He still has significant trade value and his contract poses much more of a long term risk to the club if his play does not improve or injuries begin to pile up.

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