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Dustin Penner For Your Team's Higher End Prospects/Picks

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Old
11-28-2010, 11:32 PM
  #76
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Ah ok. So Tuebert is untouchable?
No, he is far from untouchable, but it is nice to see him able to play his game without injuries. I think his stock will finally start to rise this season.

As for Jfried, like usual...you're completely off-base. No chance in hell Forbort is traded for a year of Penner

I like how you expect LA to trade a prospect of Forbort's pedigree, but you're only offering Komisarek and Blacker from your team.

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11-29-2010, 12:12 AM
  #77
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Penner
Omark

for

1st in 2012
Patrick Weircioch
Nick Foligno
Brian Lee

or

Penner

for

Michalek + 2nd Round Pick/Mid Level Prospect

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Old
11-29-2010, 12:19 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
No, he is far from untouchable, but it is nice to see him able to play his game without injuries. I think his stock will finally start to rise this season.

As for Jfried, like usual...you're completely off-base. No chance in hell Forbort is traded for a year of Penner

I like how you expect LA to trade a prospect of Forbort's pedigree, but you're only offering Komisarek and Blacker from your team.
Please tell me where I suggested that they would part with Forbort? I simply said that's the kind of player that would get it done.

A guy like Komisarek would hold value to Edmonton because he would be both an immidiate and future improvement to help keep the puck out of their own net, and because they struggle to attract UFAs. That being said, nowhere did I say that Edmonton would make that deal.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:08 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Ponikarovsky is a big LW who has put up numerous 20 goal 40 point seasons and even had a 60 point season of his own. He is only 30.

Would you have given up Hickey, Voynov and a 2nd on the speculation that Kopitar would make him better than he is?
1) Ponikarovsky is a 3rd liner for our team...and our 3rd line is pretty important

2) Poni could almost be considered a rental/stopgap player since he's only signed to one season (this season)

3) He can score a bit and skate, but he's not the power forward we need. Dustin Brown was supposed to be that power forward but ever since he was made into the captain, he seems to be playing some sort of other game, like part power forward, part regular forward. In the power forward game, you go all in or you suck, IMO.

4) Poni's position on the team (3rd line wing) can easily be replaced by a younger player once that player emerges from our crop of winger prospects (Loktionov, Moller, etc.)

So while you have the right pegs for the right board, it's a square one you're trying to fit in the round hole.

- R

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11-29-2010, 01:12 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Toronto SHOULD be highly interested, he'd be the perfect fit for Kessel's LW and Toronto is relatively deep on the blueline, to the point where something like Komisarek + Blacker for Penner + Vandermeer would make a ton of sense from Toronto's POV, but Brian Burke likely isn't going to go down that road after the whole Kevin Lowe embarassment.

Los Angeles makes a fair bit of sense aswell, with the big question being whether or not they part with Forbort. It doesn't make much sense for the Oilers to part with Penner for LA's 1st (likely to be later in the draft) and a busted prospect in Hickey. They should really be shooting for a better draft pick or very high quality defensive prospect who has a chance to play for their team in the near future and grow with Hall/Eberle/Paajarvi.
A 21 year old is far from a busted prospect. Jesus some of you are incredible.

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11-29-2010, 01:24 AM
  #81
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
A 21 year old is far from a busted prospect. Jesus some of you are incredible.
He always bashes Hickey. He doesn't get it.

Jfried, of course Forbort would get the deal done. Just like Kadri would get the deal done for the Leafs. But things like that are things that need to go unsaid as they are obvious. We are talking what it would take in the real world.

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11-29-2010, 01:27 AM
  #82
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Keep him. He will score 30 goals for us and provide much needed size up front.

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:39 AM
  #83
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I must say that ideally I'd push for a quality prospect like Forbot, however it sounds like that'd be a complete non starter for the Kings. Is there any team out there that would give up a very good prospect/young player for Penner?

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Old
11-29-2010, 01:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I must say that ideally I'd push for a quality prospect like Forbot, however it sounds like that'd be a complete non starter for the Kings. Is there any team out there that would give up a very good prospect/young player for Penner?
I think the Oilers hang on to Penner until the deadline then his value may be there. As of right now I don't think many teams give a very good prospect/young player. But for someone he may have the potential to help a team make the playoffs or a playoff run closer to the deadline. I see him getting a prospect and pick not really a roster player. I just think someone Penner's size should play a more physical game.

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11-29-2010, 03:00 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I must say that ideally I'd push for a quality prospect like Forbot, however it sounds like that'd be a complete non starter for the Kings. Is there any team out there that would give up a very good prospect/young player for Penner?
Problem is when you ask an asset like that where the value is clearly high, it becomes obvious to everyone at the table that they could probably get something better than good player/albatross contract guy in return. If you ask the our team for a bunch of assets with value but the value is spread out over lower-end prospects and those with a more uncertain future, it becomes easier for a team like LA to deal.

In other words, if LA was willing to deal Forbort, they could get something like exclusive negotiating rights and on condition he signs with LA with Semin if Washington didn't think they could sign him. Even if Washington didn't want a prospect like Forbort due to his window (projected to play in the NHL in 2-4 years) they could do a 3-way deal with another team. For example something around Forbort to Edmonton, MPS to Washington, Semin rights to LA...plus some other small stuff sprinkled from possibly LA and Wash to Edmonton to equalize the value. Same with possibly Brad Richards too...

- R

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Old
11-29-2010, 05:02 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjiv1 View Post
Penner
Omark

for

1st in 2012
Patrick Weircioch
Nick Foligno
Brian Lee

or

Penner

for

Michalek + 2nd Round Pick/Mid Level Prospect
Brutal. Both of them. That's more than we got for Dany Heatley... being given up for a 45 point winger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
1) Ponikarovsky is a 3rd liner for our team...and our 3rd line is pretty important

2) Poni could almost be considered a rental/stopgap player since he's only signed to one season (this season)

3) He can score a bit and skate, but he's not the power forward we need. Dustin Brown was supposed to be that power forward but ever since he was made into the captain, he seems to be playing some sort of other game, like part power forward, part regular forward. In the power forward game, you go all in or you suck, IMO.

4) Poni's position on the team (3rd line wing) can easily be replaced by a younger player once that player emerges from our crop of winger prospects (Loktionov, Moller, etc.)

So while you have the right pegs for the right board, it's a square one you're trying to fit in the round hole.

- R
He's a plug like Penner is, who got a lot of ice time on a bad team.

Penner is part of a power forward, he's a PP screen. But he isn't much of a forechecker and doesn't work very hard.

Haven't LA fans ripped a bunch of people for suggesting players with work ethic concerns would ever work in LA? ... Yet you suggest Penner? A decidedly lazy, underachiever?

This thread is just all kinds of insanity. These are probably the same people who say that Ryder has no value even though he makes a little less than Penner and has had a much more productive career than Penner. Penner being a soft 250 lbs somehow makes all the difference.


Last edited by trentmccleary: 11-29-2010 at 05:15 AM.
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Old
11-29-2010, 05:18 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
He's a plug like Penner is, who got a lot of ice time on a bad team.

Penner is part of a power forward, he's a PP screen. But he isn't much of a forechecker and doesn't work very hard.

Haven't LA fans ripped a bunch of people for suggesting players with work ethic concerns would ever work in LA? ... Yet you suggest Penner? A decidedly lazy, underachiever?
I just think Penner would work well with Kopitar, the way he's built and the way he plays near the net. Ponikarovsky does something else. Just because Poni got some 1st line ice time with some bad team, doesn't mean he has the same TYPE of game as Penner.

I don't know too much about Penner's work ethic but if that's the way he is, he fits right in with the other players on the Kings of that age range, haha. Heck, DL rips Drew Doughty and Anze Kopitar publicly on their work ethic as well...so that's not a deal breaker in this case. Besides, even on our team, we've seen our own winger be an "underachiever" when he had to play for our club when it was crappy, then go to another team and be a star when there was something to play for (Cammalleri).

And your label of "underachiever" is...well...I so many negative things to say about that that I don't know where to start. Any undrafted guy who was supposed to be a 4th liner but plays first line wing on TWO teams including a good Anaheim Cup contender team and even earns himself a contract in the several millions range (Burke may have overpaid at 5-ish but that means he should be able to get at least 3.5-ish from Anaheim and other teams)...I don't exactly think of him as an underachiever. That's my definition of an overachiever who just got lucky to be in the right place at the right time. NO ONE, not even Burke himself expected him to be a 70 point guy with 30+ assists, especially not on a rebuilding team like the Oilers, haha.

Oh and by the way, it's a logical fallacy to argue against my point by using what other Kings' fans say on this board. I'm not them and what they say has nothing to do with me.

One last thing...keep in mind, I'm not proposing a package that will land Rick Nash or something....it's just a couple of d prospects and a middle pick. I'm not asking for Hemsky or something. The Kings have lost many games in a row due to not being able to score. They need a left wing bad that has chemistry on the first line. Ever since Smyth went down to the second line, the scoring burden has completely been on that line. So there's no need to say that Penner is a flawed winger. We're not paying enough assets for a franchise winger with the assets being proposed.

- R

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Old
11-29-2010, 08:59 AM
  #88
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DL won't be trading for Penner because of how he left ANA.

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Old
11-29-2010, 09:09 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
A 21 year old is far from a busted prospect. Jesus some of you are incredible.
Not really. 4th Overal WHL defenceman that has failed to make an NHL team 4 years in a row??? That's a busted prospect. Long term upside for him has gone from a potential top end two-way defenceman to a servicable bottom pair guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
He always bashes Hickey. He doesn't get it.

Jfried, of course Forbort would get the deal done. Just like Kadri would get the deal done for the Leafs. But things like that are things that need to go unsaid as they are obvious. We are talking what it would take in the real world.
Apparently Kings fans have trouble grasping the obvious -- most notably the fact that if Forbort isn't involved, they really don't have the defensive prospect that Edmonton would be looking for.

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11-29-2010, 09:39 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Brutal. Both of them. That's more than we got for Dany Heatley... being given up for a 45 point winger.



He's a plug like Penner is, who got a lot of ice time on a bad team.


Penner is part of a power forward, he's a PP screen. But he isn't much of a forechecker and doesn't work very hard.

Haven't LA fans ripped a bunch of people for suggesting players with work ethic concerns would ever work in LA? ... Yet you suggest Penner? A decidedly lazy, underachiever?

This thread is just all kinds of insanity. These are probably the same people who say that Ryder has no value even though he makes a little less than Penner and has had a much more productive career than Penner. Penner being a soft 250 lbs somehow makes all the difference.
This is the point I was trying to make before. Ryder can be had for next to nothing, is just as productive (in fact, he has better career numbers), and makes the same money. I think Penner is a decent player, but he's not a pivotal guy on a good team. He's secondary scoring on any team that has a shot to win (see: Anaheim), and you don't start giving up major assets to bring in a $4 million/year secondary scorer.

This thread is about trade value, and I think people always get confused when it's about trade value and not about value to a current team, or intrinsic value, or how he protects the puck, etc. They are two completely different things. Penner is inconsistent, he's not cheap for his career averages, and he's not a guy that creates his own opportunities. I think he could provide some solid secondary scoring to a team like the Kings down the stretch, no doubt about it, but that doesn't mean he's going to net a major return.

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Old
11-29-2010, 09:43 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I'd still do Hickey and a pick for Penner.
If whatever sports channel you watched anounced that Penner had been traded to L.A for a pick and hickey...

how would you feel if it was a 2nd rounder or a first rounder?

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Old
11-29-2010, 10:04 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Brutal. Both of them. That's more than we got for Dany Heatley... being given up for a 45 point winger.
Dany Heatley was traded because he requested a trade, Penner did not. Why are we basing stats from the past? Cheechoo is a career 27 goal scorer on average.



Quote:
He's a plug like Penner is, who got a lot of ice time on a bad team.
Orly? He outscored Michaelek and Kovalev with basically the same ice time.

09-10
Penner: 18:22 minutes per game
Michalek: 18:15 minutes per game
Kovalev: 18:09 minutes per game

And he outscored both of them by a fairly wide margin while playing with Gilbert Brule and Robert Nilsson, not Daniel Alfredsson, Jason Spezza or Mike Fisher.


Quote:
Penner is part of a power forward, he's a PP screen. But he isn't much of a forechecker and doesn't work very hard.
You did not watch him play, he rarely screened the goalie in fact he was so damn good last year because his forecheck ability along the boards. He basically scored 60+ points by himself. I can agree that it seems like he is disinterred at times.

Quote:
Haven't LA fans ripped a bunch of people for suggesting players with work ethic concerns would ever work in LA? ... Yet you suggest Penner? A decidedly lazy, underachiever?
He's outscoring Mike Fisher at the moment, that fat lazy underachiever with 1 minute less ice time per game.

Quote:
This thread is just all kinds of insanity. These are probably the same people who say that Ryder has no value even though he makes a little less than Penner and has had a much more productive career than Penner. Penner being a soft 250 lbs somehow makes all the difference.
Because Ryder and Penner are not comparable? Why are we using career stats again to determine the value of a player? Penner had one less goal than Ryder had points last season, you also make it sound like that 250 pound soft winger doesn't do anything, he actually uses his size to dominate in the forecheck part of the game and can throw and take hits from time to time.

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11-29-2010, 10:08 AM
  #93
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[QUOTE=Neely06;29240524]This is the point I was trying to make before. Ryder can be had for next to nothing, is just as productive (in fact, he has better career numbers), and makes the same money. I think Penner is a decent player, but he's not a pivotal guy on a good team. He's secondary scoring on any team that has a shot to win (see: Anaheim), and you don't start giving up major assets to bring in a $4 million/year secondary scorer. [QUOTE]

Penner has progressed from that cup winning season, at that time Getzlaf and Perry were also secondary scoring players. You make it sound like secondary scoring is unneeded, but depth is what gets you to the cup, and many teams will be calling for a 30 goal scoring former cup winner.

Quote:
This thread is about trade value, and I think people always get confused when it's about trade value and not about value to a current team, or intrinsic value, or how he protects the puck, etc. They are two completely different things. Penner is inconsistent, he's not cheap for his career averages, and he's not a guy that creates his own opportunities. I think he could provide some solid secondary scoring to a team like the Kings down the stretch, no doubt about it, but that doesn't mean he's going to net a major return.
Career averages argument, got to love HFBoards. Lucic never broke 50 points in his career.

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Old
11-29-2010, 10:22 AM
  #94
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Carle, Carcillo and Zherdev for Penner & Smid


Something along those lines.. Give or take a pick or a prospect. Doable?

I think I am giving a way too much for Penner while Smid will have a real opportunity to go after Avery again.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 11-29-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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11-29-2010, 10:24 AM
  #95
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Jason Blake
ANA 1st-round 2011
Mark Mitera

for

Dustin Penner

OR

Jason Blake
ANA 1st-round 2011
Nick Bonino
Jake Gardiner
One of: Sutton/Lilja/Mara/Brookbank

for

Dustin Penner
Ladislav Smid

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Old
11-29-2010, 10:28 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Carle and Zherdev for Penner & Smid


Something along those lines.. Give or take a pick or a prospect. Doable?

I think I am giving a way too much for Penner and Smid will have a real opportunity to go after Avery again.
I don't really want to move Smid, and we already have a Carcillo-like guy with Stortini, so I don't know if the depth pieces really work out.

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11-29-2010, 10:29 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varius View Post
Jason Blake
ANA 1st-round 2011
Mark Mitera

for

Dustin Penner

OR

Jason Blake
ANA 1st-round 2011
Nick Bonino
Jake Gardiner
One of: Sutton/Lilja/Mara/Brookbank

for

Dustin Penner
Ladislav Smid
I don't like Jason Blake, but would consider the first deal just to get the first rounder from the Ducks. The second one is a no-go, we aren't moving Smid in this type of package.

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11-29-2010, 10:31 AM
  #98
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I don't really want to move Smid, and we already have a Carcillo-like guy with Stortini, so I don't know if the depth pieces really work out.
Fair enough. I did not know Smid was that good. Nothing agianst him but everytime I watched Smid, he is average. Have to be honest I do not watch Edmonton a lot so I could be way off in my opinion.

I figured Edm won't lose a lot of goals cause Zherdev can score about 20-25 and Carle is an improvement over Smid.

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11-29-2010, 10:34 AM
  #99
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your first round pick is going to be equivalent to our second round pick lol, so it would have to be
Hickey, a first and a roster player.
If u wanna do a second then throw in greene or schenn.
HAHA you want Schenn tossed in a trade for Penner?

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11-29-2010, 10:34 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Fair enough. I did not know Smid was that good. Nothing agianst him but everytime I watched Smid, he is average. Have to be honest I do not watch Edmonton a lot so I could be way off in my opinion.
He is average at worst, and has the potential to be a very good shut down d-man. Plus, he has an awesome work ethic.

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