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Luongo named in top 5 overpaid players - versus

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Old
12-03-2010, 04:38 PM
  #401
CCF23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
You're right. I think he had something like a 2.00GAA and a .940SVP at the United Center in last years playoffs?
Honestly, our special teams and our forwards all the sudden refusing to score goals was MUCH more of a reason for our demise than Luongo.

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12-03-2010, 04:46 PM
  #402
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I like this thread now

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12-03-2010, 04:47 PM
  #403
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Also, as long as Luongo can maintain being a starter for another 7 years, he'll have huge trade value for his salary vs cap space

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12-03-2010, 04:51 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by jin View Post
I actually think Luongo will get better as his kids get older. Just a theory of mine but jobs that involve intense concentration probably get way tougher when you have a young baby at home.
This is a huge stretch of an excuse. No other goalies have kids at home ?

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12-03-2010, 04:57 PM
  #405
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Canucks spend more than any other team of drafting/development as per the team 1040. So let's squash this issue. But to just look at cap hit and not salary is irresponsible. So when he's 40 and his play declines substantially, I'm guessing these same posters will not look at his 5.3 cap hit, but rather that he's making 1million dollars. An attractive cap hit now means he will be on the downward close to retirement part of his career and still costing us 5.3 against the cap.




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Originally Posted by Potatoe1 View Post
Like I said I disagree with this.

A short term hit is worth taking vs slashing scouting / development which could perhaps cost 10's of millions down the road.

I'm sure Gillis and Aqua man would both agree.

Personally I think Gillis would trim payroll vs. trimming his scouting budget.



A home play-off date may have been 1 mill revenue, 15 years ago, but it is far more then that now.

Seat sales alone will bring in around 3mil depending on the round. Then you have box revenue, concession, sponsorship stuff, souvenirs etc. etc. My guess is each game is in the 3.5 to 4.5 revenue.

And that's just current year revenue. Winning in the playoffs also helps grow the fan base and thus increases future profits as well as the asset value of the team.





Keep in mind the deal was heavily front loaded. The 10 mill he is getting this year has to be looked at in balance with the less expensive years down the line.




I don't think Gillis could spend the 30 mill in a way that would justify the money spent.

We are already spending well over the cap and are spending more then anyone else on scouting / development.

I'm not sure what else we could do other then taking other teams bad contracts and burying them, but the fact we aren't doing stuff like that really has nothing to do with Lu's contract.




Yes, and like I said, the most logical place for Lu's temporary salary to come out of is the teams bottom line, not drafting / development or the Janitors Christmas bonus.

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12-03-2010, 04:59 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
Luongo wasn't flat out bad. He was lights out on the road last year against Chicago, and terrible at home. I don't know the reason for that, but to just say he was bad is wrong.
Even if I buy what you are selling here, Luongo is expected to be a top performer in the post season.

The one area we should have had a significant advantage over the Hawks was in net but we really didn't either year.

The fact that his performances is rated between bad and merely passible at the most important of times is a problem given the amount the team has invested in him.

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12-03-2010, 05:11 PM
  #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Canucks spend more than any other team of drafting/development as per the team 1040. So let's squash this issue. But to just look at cap hit and not salary is irresponsible. So when he's 40 and his play declines substantially, I'm guessing these same posters will not look at his 5.3 cap hit, but rather that he's making 1million dollars. An attractive cap hit now means he will be on the downward close to retirement part of his career and still costing us 5.3 against the cap.
But in the same respect, what's the value of a $5.3M goalie 11 years from now? With the way the cap keeps increasing, that might be average or even slightly below average.

Also, there is value in a player with a big cap hit but very low salary, particularly to those cap floor teams as previously mentioned.

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12-03-2010, 05:19 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Canucks spend more than any other team of drafting/development as per the team 1040. So let's squash this issue. But to just look at cap hit and not salary is irresponsible. So when he's 40 and his play declines substantially, I'm guessing these same posters will not look at his 5.3 cap hit, but rather that he's making 1million dollars. An attractive cap hit now means he will be on the downward close to retirement part of his career and still costing us 5.3 against the cap.
I don't disagree here.

Luongos real cost is difficult to determine at this point because we have no idea how well he will play during the later stages of his contract.

We also have no clue what the cap will be at in 10 years. If things increase by 5 to 8 percent every year then the cap hit will feel more like 3 to 3.5 mill.

The other thing to note is that it is highly unlikely we will see Luongo hanging around and stinking late into his career. With only 1 mill per year on the table chances are very slim he will wan't to keep playing, especially in a town like Vancouver where the fans will be all over him.

Anyway, this debate is obviously tedious and the truth is that his real cost lies somewhere between the 10 and the 5.3.

Personally I think Luongo should be a top 5 to 7 goalie to justify not just his cap hit but also the length of his deal. I don't think he was in that range last year but he most certainly was the year before.

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12-03-2010, 05:26 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Potatoe1 View Post
It's 2 separate problems that people seem to morph into 1.
Yes, I think that's a good way to look at it. If he gets the mental crap sorted out, the (slower) physical decline won't be nearly as significant, IMO, at least not for a few more years.

ETA: I would also add that while Luongo was a key part of the playoff debacle, he was by no means solely responsible, that was a collective failure on the part of the team's on-ice leadership, IMO.

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Old
12-03-2010, 05:29 PM
  #410
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A contracts like Luongo's will be great for things like that in the future.
No team has ever traded for a player who's actually salary was 20% of his cap hit. Until that actually happens, it is pure speculation to suggest it "will" happen.

Regardless of cap considerations, the player would still have to fill a roster spot. And if he's simply put in the press box for 82 games, guaranteed that will be looked at as cap circumvention.

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12-03-2010, 06:43 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
No team has ever traded for a player who's actually salary was 20% of his cap hit. Until that actually happens, it is pure speculation to suggest it "will" happen.

Regardless of cap considerations, the player would still have to fill a roster spot. And if he's simply put in the press box for 82 games, guaranteed that will be looked at as cap circumvention.
They've never traded for a player who's salary was 20% of his cap hit because people have just started front-loading contracts the past few seasons and no players are at that point yet where they'll need to be traded or even where they're contracts are at the 20% point of the cap hit.

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12-03-2010, 07:28 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
But in the same respect, what's the value of a $5.3M goalie 11 years from now? With the way the cap keeps increasing, that might be average or even slightly below average.

Also, there is value in a player with a big cap hit but very low salary, particularly to those cap floor teams as previously mentioned.
I don't think this point can be emphasized too much. And I'd even go so far as to suggest that in 3 to 4 years with the salary cap continuing to rise (and I firmly believe it will) Lou's salary (esp. cap hit) will look very reasonable.

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12-04-2010, 12:47 AM
  #413
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Uh. Suck it haters.

I just "saved" four shots (of vodka) in ten minutes in honour of Roberto.

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12-04-2010, 12:52 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
But in the same respect, what's the value of a $5.3M goalie 11 years from now? With the way the cap keeps increasing, that might be average or even slightly below average.

Also, there is value in a player with a big cap hit but very low salary, particularly to those cap floor teams as previously mentioned.
With the global currency wars going on, and the feds turning on the printing presses, who knows?

As for the 11 years, it's possible that Luongo retires near the end of his contract if his game isn't at that level. That, or they buy out his contract or pull a Huet to Europe situation with him.

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12-04-2010, 01:16 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
This is a huge stretch of an excuse. No other goalies have kids at home ?
Most of the best goalies don't.

Lundqvist doesn't. I'm not sure about Miller. Thomas was bad until his kids got older. There's always exceptions. For recent greats: i believe Broduer and Roy are divorced and I don't think Hasek has kids. Anyone correct me I'm wrong.

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12-04-2010, 01:24 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
No team has ever traded for a player who's actually salary was 20% of his cap hit. Until that actually happens, it is pure speculation to suggest it "will" happen.

Regardless of cap considerations, the player would still have to fill a roster spot. And if he's simply put in the press box for 82 games, guaranteed that will be looked at as cap circumvention.
You think I'm reaching with Luongo will be tradable and at the same time saying it will be considered cap circumvention? I think we both know that's rediculous.

When's the last time a team had a 20% contract to trade? Saying something is reaching because it's never happened when there has never been a situation for it to happen is too much of a self-fulfilling prophecy. As a business man, if I had a non-competitive team and could qualify for revene sharing at a $4M discount, you better believe I jump at that, and overpay to do it.

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12-04-2010, 03:50 AM
  #417
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Luongo was all world tonight. I bet the author of that article feels like an idiot. Although it is just one game I guess.

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12-04-2010, 04:22 AM
  #418
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Luongo was all world tonight.
Yes.

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12-04-2010, 07:44 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by jin View Post
Most of the best goalies don't.

Lundqvist doesn't. I'm not sure about Miller. Thomas was bad until his kids got older. There's always exceptions. For recent greats: i believe Broduer and Roy are divorced and I don't think Hasek has kids. Anyone correct me I'm wrong.
I didn't even know they had been dating.

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12-04-2010, 08:01 AM
  #420
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I didn't even know they had been dating.
thanks poster for this post

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12-04-2010, 11:39 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
I didn't even know they had been dating.
^

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

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12-04-2010, 01:16 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Canucks spend more than any other team of drafting/development as per the team 1040. So let's squash this issue. But to just look at cap hit and not salary is irresponsible. So when he's 40 and his play declines substantially, I'm guessing these same posters will not look at his 5.3 cap hit, but rather that he's making 1million dollars. An attractive cap hit now means he will be on the downward close to retirement part of his career and still costing us 5.3 against the cap.
Hello, Johnny Canucker of today. Meet Johnny Canucker of four days ago:

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Originally Posted by Johnny Canucker View Post
Even at his cap hit and not his salary he is overpaid, so what's the argument? He's a 500 goalie making 5+ million cap hit. Wayyy overpaid.
You literally asked for a cap hit argument, but now you want to take that back?

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01-02-2011, 10:22 PM
  #423
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Luongo was all world tonight. I bet the author of that article feels like an idiot. Although it is just one game I guess.
He has been all world for better part of a month.

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