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Hitchcock: This season's Eastern Conf sleeper -Rangers

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Old
11-30-2010, 07:49 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by rangersfan4390 View Post
traded to make room for a signing such as brad richards... I am confident that Sauer can competently take over a top 4 role and do just as good a job as rosi. He's really impressed me
Can we see this kid for more than 20 games before handing him a top 4 spot. To me he still has to show he can stay healthy which is a huge thing for Sauer. Rozy being traded at this point doesn't help us.

Torts was quoted as saying no one in HDF is ready to be called up yet, so I guess that means MCD and Vtank are not options in Torts eyes. Can we trade Gilroy? He makes almost half of Rozy and isn't even in our top six.

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11-30-2010, 07:54 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Can we see this kid for more than 20 games before handing him a top 4 spot. To me he still has to show he can stay healthy which is a huge thing for Sauer. Rozy being traded at this point doesn't help us.

Torts was quoted as saying no one in HDF is ready to be called up yet, so I guess that means MCD and Vtank are not options in Torts eyes. Can we trade Gilroy? He makes almost half of Rozy and isn't even in our top six.
Probably not, but he's off the books at the end of this season.

I don't know if i'd move Roszi but the more I think about it, the more I realize getting Richards would be absolutely huge. I'd love to get him, but we can't gut the team to do so. If Rozi is the only movable commodity to get cap space, as much as I like him compared to some of our other posters, I think it has to be given serious thought.

I do think Stepan will be ready to center the first line even better in a few years with Ani on the second, but not only will Brad makes us so much better now, but it gives Stepan and even Anisimov someone to look up to, ala Dubi with Jagr. Richards would be such a great influence on this team.

Richards
Stepan
Anisimov
Boyle/Drury

With either Drury playing wing, or trying out Boyle on the wing, gives us great center depth IMO.

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11-30-2010, 09:59 PM
  #78
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Foxhound is an extreme pessimist, so you've got to take anything he says with a grain of salt. I'm not sure he can really call himself a fan, unless of course they've changed the definition since I last checked.

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11-30-2010, 10:27 PM
  #79
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I'm guessing Sather will probably be pretty busy around the deadline. We've got a backlog of prospects, so it won't hurt too bad to unload one or two. Guys like Frolov and Gilroy probably hold SOME value and are very expendable.

As long as the right guys are coming back in a deal, I don't see why we can't make a deep playoff run. Stanley cup? Highly unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

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11-30-2010, 10:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by WPGNYRFan View Post
Foxhound is an extreme pessimist, so you've got to take anything he says with a grain of salt. I'm not sure he can really call himself a fan, unless of course they've changed the definition since I last checked.
Realistic is the word, REALISTIC.
So far I've been right all along.

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11-30-2010, 11:12 PM
  #81
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These threads really swing with wins and losses. Heres my 2 cents.

Our best D man is Staal.
Our best F is Gaborik.
One of the best, if not the best, Goalies in the League= Lundqvist.

None of them have even come close to playing the way they can. We also have a lot of guys who can be much better, Frolov, Christensen, Fedetenko, Avery, Del Zotto, Rozsival.
This team is very underrated, we need to find our game as a whole, especially when drury gets back. I am not even going to mention prospal, because my hope with him is limited. When MDZ, and Frolov turn around, which they will. It will make our PP better. With gabby becoming healthy and a sniper on the PP again, it will help these other guys out as well.

We have nothing, but injuries, to worry about.

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11-30-2010, 11:54 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by NYRfan1823 View Post
These threads really swing with wins and losses. Heres my 2 cents.

Our best D man is Staal.
Our best F is Gaborik.
One of the best, if not the best, Goalies in the League= Lundqvist.

None of them have even come close to playing the way they can.
We also have a lot of guys who can be much better, Frolov, Christensen, Fedetenko, Avery, Del Zotto, Rozsival.
This team is very underrated, we need to find our game as a whole, especially when drury gets back. I am not even going to mention prospal, because my hope with him is limited. When MDZ, and Frolov turn around, which they will. It will make our PP better. With gabby becoming healthy and a sniper on the PP again, it will help these other guys out as well.


We have nothing, but injuries, to worry about.

Not that I really disagree with your post, because I do think that this team is the closest to having an actual legitimate identity and they play hard every night and do things the right way for the most part: something we haven't seen in years (arguably since 06-07, but I think since the early/mid-nineties). But the bolded parts are statements I could've said each of the last 3 years. We had better teams on paper than the way they performed. Career-lows for some of our highest-paid players (Drury, Redden, Zherdev, Naslund, Shanahan even though I loved him even when he was here).

So I just don't wanna get behind statements like that, because it's happened before and we still didn't get the job done nearly as well as we were CAPABLE of. But, with that said, I do think this team is about to turn a corner and really become a team that can do some damage with confidence and solid 60 minute efforts. I'd like to see MZA be brought up for the 2nd half of the year. We still could use a guy with playmaking ability and vision like MZA. Or hopefully Prospal comes back and looks great again.

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Old
12-01-2010, 12:08 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by DelZottoFutureNorris View Post
Not that I really disagree with your post, because I do think that this team is the closest to having an actual legitimate identity and they play hard every night and do things the right way for the most part: something we haven't seen in years (arguably since 06-07, but I think since the early/mid-nineties). But the bolded parts are statements I could've said each of the last 3 years. We had better teams on paper than the way they performed. Career-lows for some of our highest-paid players (Drury, Redden, Zherdev, Naslund, Shanahan even though I loved him even when he was here).

So I just don't wanna get behind statements like that, because it's happened before and we still didn't get the job done nearly as well as we were CAPABLE of. But, with that said, I do think this team is about to turn a corner and really become a team that can do some damage with confidence and solid 60 minute efforts. I'd like to see MZA be brought up for the 2nd half of the year. We still could use a guy with playmaking ability and vision like MZA. Or hopefully Prospal comes back and looks great again.
i just thought of the team that we had with jagr, drury, gomer, shanny and a way more fiery avery. it's a shame jags didn't click with dru or gomer when slats brought them in.

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Old
12-01-2010, 02:40 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Realistic is the word, REALISTIC.
So far I've been right all along.
It's a good balance. Some people are eternal optimists, and others are brooding realists. The majority fall square in the middle, so it all works out in the end.

I find realistic, with a sprinkle of cynical optimism to be my favorite position. Not too positive, not too negative. Pretty good.

Let's way until May for the "I told ya so!" however.

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12-01-2010, 07:08 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Realistic is the word, REALISTIC.
So far I've been right all along.
Not really...all you do is talk about how the team is absolutely no good.

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12-01-2010, 07:13 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Not really...all you do is talk about how the team is absolutely no good.
Uhh yeah, that's being realistic about this team. Good teams win at home. Good teams don't have a 3-9 record against playoff teams. Good teams aren't this inconsistent.

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12-01-2010, 07:27 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Uhh yeah, that's being realistic about this team. Good teams win at home. Good teams don't have a 3-9 record against playoff teams. Good teams aren't this inconsistent.
Think I found a new friend on these boards after reading this.

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12-01-2010, 07:48 AM
  #88
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I'm not going to say we're a great team (yet), but this Rangers team has to be one of the most frustrating teams in the league to play against.

Their forecheck gives you little time to think in the defensive zone and forces a lot of turnovers, they hit relentlessly, they block a TON of shots, and then once you get through that they've got a goalie who can just put up a forcefield for several games in a row and leave you mumbling sweet nothings under your breath.

I'm not convinced we've got what it takes to get through four rounds of playoffs, but I'm sure no team would want to face us in round 1 while we're relatively fresh.

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12-01-2010, 08:13 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
I'm not going to say we're a great team (yet), but this Rangers team has to be one of the most frustrating teams in the league to play against.

Their forecheck gives you little time to think in the defensive zone and forces a lot of turnovers, they hit relentlessly, they block a TON of shots, and then once you get through that they've got a goalie who can just put up a forcefield for several games in a row and leave you mumbling sweet nothings under your breath.

I'm not convinced we've got what it takes to get through four rounds of playoffs, but I'm sure no team would want to face us in round 1 while we're relatively fresh.
I agree. This team is kind of like a magician's illusion. It appears greater than it actually is. In the end, it's a barely head above water team still a few pieces shy of upper echelon quality. But they're more entertaining to watch. I'll sit through the growing pains of a group of tenacious kids any day of the week and twice on sunday.

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12-01-2010, 08:15 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Uhh yeah, that's being realistic about this team. Good teams win at home. Good teams don't have a 3-9 record against playoff teams. Good teams aren't this inconsistent.
I'd also like to see us win against actual good teams before I can call us a "sleeper" team. We do a lot of things right but until we start putting up some W's against quality teams I'm not going to get too excited.

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12-01-2010, 08:44 AM
  #91
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I'd also like to see us win against actual good teams before I can call us a "sleeper" team. We do a lot of things right but until we start putting up some W's against quality teams I'm not going to get too excited.
Thats all I'm saying, let's get some of that consistency they talked about going first. I do think this team can get there eventually. Maybe by the end of this year, or maybe next, but right now it's just not there and for them to take the step to the next level it needs to be

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12-01-2010, 09:22 AM
  #92
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The Rangers do have the players on this roster this year to win and compete in the playoffs. If healthy, this team can roll 3 good scoring lines. Also, the defense is very, very solid. This team plays like a pack of Hungry dogs in a back alley. Callahan is the epitome of this team. They also have a game breaker in Gaborik that can change a game at any time.

What this team needs is their elite goalie to play elite against the best teams in the league in the playoffs. If this happens, this team can go far. Hank if I am not mistaken is the highest paid goalie in the NHL.

Hopefully, this does not come across as a bash against Hank as no-one can complain about the accomplishments that Hank has done in NY. However, to get to the next level he needs be elite against the great teams in the NHL and not against the teams like the Panthers, Nashville, Islanders and etc...

Halak carried the Canadiens in the playoffs last year. That Montreal team is similar to this year's Ranger team in talent. No?

The Rangers need Hank to do this in the playoffs also. No excuses about having a sore/bad knee, he is tired after a long season or he was screened by players and etc.

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12-01-2010, 10:39 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
I'm not going to say we're a great team (yet), but this Rangers team has to be one of the most frustrating teams in the league to play against.

Their forecheck gives you little time to think in the defensive zone and forces a lot of turnovers, they hit relentlessly, they block a TON of shots, and then once you get through that they've got a goalie who can just put up a forcefield for several games in a row and leave you mumbling sweet nothings under your breath.

I'm not convinced we've got what it takes to get through four rounds of playoffs, but I'm sure no team would want to face us in round 1 while we're relatively fresh.
Teams get up to face the Rangers. Any team that's decent and over .500 knows that they have a pretty damn good chance against us considering our play toward those types of teams thus far. I don't think they're frustrating at all to play against. On the road, maybe. At home, going to MSG, visiting teams probably have a ball. It's easy to beat us on home ice. We hardly put up a fight. The only intimidating player on our side of the ice is Boogaard, who hardly fights and is rarely in the lineup. All teams know that we are full of bottom-six grinding forwards with no real offensive potential outside of Gaborik and a few young'n's. Teams know that shutting down Gaborik essentially wins you the game. And it's been easy to shut down Gaborik this year.

Really don't think we're frustrating at all to play against.

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12-01-2010, 12:51 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
Uhh yeah, that's being realistic about this team. Good teams win at home. Good teams don't have a 3-9 record against playoff teams. Good teams aren't this inconsistent.
No it's not with you because your pessimism drives you a little past the point of realistic. btw what's the textbook definition of good in the NHL? Might also be your just dying for a clear cut top 4 which is reserved for division winners and one unlucky team that was stuck probably in the same division as the best in the conference.
We are certainly good at 5 6 or 7. It's hard to be a bad team in the NHL b./c there's a ton of parity. The isles are horrible, the Devs are horrible, the leafs are bad, the sens are bad, calgary is bad. Nsh is good, NY is good, teams that can go out and compete on any given night but just have too many holes to dominate or get it done consistently.

Right now injuries have been a huge part of our holes so it's wrong to fully state NY is bad or not good.

Realistically you have to take that into account and you don't you point solely to wins against PO teams which is important but realistically is NOT the be all end all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
Teams get up to face the Rangers. Any team that's decent and over .500 knows that they have a pretty damn good chance against us considering our play toward those types of teams thus far. I don't think they're frustrating at all to play against.
Really don't think we're frustrating at all to play against.
We aren't winning but that doesn't indicate we are not frustrating to play against. Could be we aren't but teams labeled us as a hard working gritty and tough team which is pretty close. Any night Hank can steal a game and despite an earlier post he has done that and played elite in a few games against top notch competition. Lot of banging and hitting, legit sniper, plenty of fighters who can move as well. No I don't think teams get up to play the Rangers as if they are an also ran


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12-01-2010, 02:32 PM
  #95
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The Rangers do have the players on this roster this year to win and compete in the playoffs. If healthy, this team can roll 3 good scoring lines. Also, the defense is very, very solid. This team plays like a pack of Hungry dogs in a back alley. Callahan is the epitome of this team. They also have a game breaker in Gaborik that can change a game at any time.

What this team needs is their elite goalie to play elite against the best teams in the league in the playoffs. If this happens, this team can go far. Hank if I am not mistaken is the highest paid goalie in the NHL.

Hopefully, this does not come across as a bash against Hank as no-one can complain about the accomplishments that Hank has done in NY. However, to get to the next level he needs be elite against the great teams in the NHL and not against the teams like the Panthers, Nashville, Islanders and etc...

Halak carried the Canadiens in the playoffs last year. That Montreal team is similar to this year's Ranger team in talent. No?

The Rangers need Hank to do this in the playoffs also. No excuses about having a sore/bad knee, he is tired after a long season or he was screened by players and etc.
Sounds like you haven't watched Hank in the playoffs. He always raises his game. The rest of the team doesn't.

Halak had plenty of help. That team actually scored some goals and even some of their bottom d-men like Hal Gill raise their game in the playoffs. They also have much more offensive depth.

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12-01-2010, 02:41 PM
  #96
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Have a few people forgot the definition of sleeper team?

Its someone who's not supposed to win, who somehow does.

If we were beating all the playoff contending teams, and if we had a great win loss at home...

We wouldn't be a sleeper we'd be a contender.

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12-01-2010, 03:10 PM
  #97
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Have a few people forgot the definition of sleeper team?

Its someone who's not supposed to win, who somehow does.

If we were beating all the playoff contending teams, and if we had a great win loss at home...

We wouldn't be a sleeper we'd be a contender.
That's a good point, but surely a "sleeper" team should be able to beat playoff teams somtimes shouldn't they? Here are the last few playoff teams the Rangers have played (and by playoff I mean are currently seeded 1-8 in their respective conference):

Pittsburgh (loss)
Tampa Bay (loss)
Colorado (loss)
Boston (loss)
Washington (loss)
St. Louis (loss)

Out of all the teams we've beaten recently (Nashville, Minnesota, Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary), none are seeded 1-8. In order for me to believe we are a sleeper team, like I said in my earlier post, we don't have to win against EVERY playoff team, we just have to win against playoff teams more often.

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12-01-2010, 03:24 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stugots View Post
That's a good point, but surely a "sleeper" team should be able to beat playoff teams somtimes shouldn't they? Here are the last few playoff teams the Rangers have played (and by playoff I mean are currently seeded 1-8 in their respective conference):

Pittsburgh (loss)
Tampa Bay (loss)
Colorado (loss)
Boston (loss)
Washington (loss)
St. Louis (loss)

Out of all the teams we've beaten recently (Nashville, Minnesota, Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary), none are seeded 1-8. In order for me to believe we are a sleeper team, like I said in my earlier post, we don't have to win against EVERY playoff team, we just have to win against playoff teams more often.
Now they did beat Pittsburgh earlier mid Nov. which was after the St. Louis and Washington games. They've beaten Chicago this year, albeit at the beginning of Nov and believe they've picked up a win against Boston as well. If you're going to just look at the last few games I don't think you'll get an accurate representation considering a lot of them were against Western Conference teams or teams out of the playoffs.

And if you go back too far you're looking at Rangers sans Gaborik which as we all know changes the team completely.

So problem is we don't have a whole lot to look at. We know the Rangers have lost the majority of their games to playoff teams, but many were without Gaborik.

We know they've picked up a few wins against playoff teams which I detailed above.

What I also think we're finding out, and what I think was Hitchcock's whole point is... The Rangers are a tough team to play against, and with the goaltending they have, with the scorer they have, they're probably not the easy first round out a top three seed hopes for.

He's saying the Rangers have the ability to steal a series as a sleeper, not that they're necessarily a better team then the contenders.

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12-01-2010, 04:48 PM
  #99
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No it's not with you because your pessimism drives you a little past the point of realistic. btw what's the textbook definition of good in the NHL? Might also be your just dying for a clear cut top 4 which is reserved for division winners and one unlucky team that was stuck probably in the same division as the best in the conference.
We are certainly good at 5 6 or 7. It's hard to be a bad team in the NHL b./c there's a ton of parity. The isles are horrible, the Devs are horrible, the leafs are bad, the sens are bad, calgary is bad. Nsh is good, NY is good, teams that can go out and compete on any given night but just have too many holes to dominate or get it done consistently.

Right now injuries have been a huge part of our holes so it's wrong to fully state NY is bad or not good.

Realistically you have to take that into account and you don't you point solely to wins against PO teams which is important but realistically is NOT the be all end all.



We aren't winning but that doesn't indicate we are not frustrating to play against. Could be we aren't but teams labeled us as a hard working gritty and tough team which is pretty close. Any night Hank can steal a game and despite an earlier post he has done that and played elite in a few games against top notch competition. Lot of banging and hitting, legit sniper, plenty of fighters who can move as well. No I don't think teams get up to play the Rangers as if they are an also ran
Sorry it's not all sunshine and roses out here in NY these days, but those are the facts. I've yet to be proven wrong. Get over it.

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12-01-2010, 05:58 PM
  #100
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We've got 4 very winnable games coming up. We made it through probably the toughest part of our schedule these past 2 weeks and we're still above .500.

Anything less than 6 of 8 pts out of these next 4 games would be a failure, IMO.

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