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Last Place, but Are You Envious of the Oilers' Youth?

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Old
12-02-2010, 10:32 PM
  #26
tfong
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Originally Posted by OILNATION View Post
Ah I see, well it looks like this year you guys should be able to pick up a gem.. Maybe even 2 or 3 if Sutter sells at the deadline. I hope Calgary can get a solid youth movement going, the BoB could be sick in a few years.
Hard to sell with so many no trade clauses

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12-03-2010, 01:41 AM
  #27
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What? No envy for a team that is ahead of the Flames in the standings and a bright future with young talent to spare? If we're taking a snapshot of where everything is at right now, I don't see how Flames fans could be anything but envious.

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Old
12-03-2010, 09:51 AM
  #28
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As a Sens fan, I'm envious of the Oilers. I'd rather go out and support the next generation, then the current generation that is going absolutely nowhere and simply going through the motions

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12-03-2010, 09:54 AM
  #29
Stewie Griffin
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Actually they were at the top of the mountian after winning the division in 05/06. The descent started in the 06/07 season.

Rock bottom is a short fall from here.

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12-03-2010, 10:11 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Actually they were at the top of the mountian after winning the division in 05/06. The descent started in the 06/07 season.

Rock bottom is a short fall from here.
Winning the division isn't quite as prestigious now as it was in the past imo. Unless it is winning the actual conference I think, people typically point towards your division as being weaker and whatnot (for those that even care about division banners).

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12-03-2010, 10:36 AM
  #31
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I'd rather be an Oilers fan than a Flames fan right now. The Flames organization looks like it's going nowhere for the forseeable future. At least the Oilers have that silver lining.

There's really no compelling reason to watch the Flames right now and I'll admit I haven't been watching them.

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12-03-2010, 01:11 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
I'd rather be an Oilers fan than a Flames fan right now. The Flames organization looks like it's going nowhere for the forseeable future. At least the Oilers have that silver lining.

There's really no compelling reason to watch the Flames right now and I'll admit I haven't been watching them.
they had a silver lining with future 600 goal scorer Robbie Schremp too

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12-03-2010, 01:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
they had a silver lining with future 600 goal scorer Robbie Schremp too
yupp, or the future "elites" in Cogliano and Gagne

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Old
12-03-2010, 02:30 PM
  #34
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You Can't Compare Schremp and Cogliano in the same Class as Hall or Eberle. The Oilers had many quick fix rebuild attempts, but this one is different. I didn't even believe in the team when they went to the finals against Carolina, but I believe in what they're building now.

Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Gagner, Omark, Marincin, Pitlick, Lander, Hamilton and Petry...

that's the best prospect pool Alberta has seen since the glory days.

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Old
12-03-2010, 03:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
You Can't Compare Schremp and Cogliano in the same Class as Hall or Eberle. The Oilers had many quick fix rebuild attempts, but this one is different. I didn't even believe in the team when they went to the finals against Carolina, but I believe in what they're building now.

Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Gagner, Omark, Marincin, Pitlick, Lander, Hamilton and Petry...

that's the best prospect pool Alberta has seen since the glory days.
What an unfortunate name...

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Old
12-03-2010, 03:34 PM
  #36
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Middle of the pack

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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
one thing I am very proud of as a Flames fan is that we have no had a top 5 pick in franchise history... losing is not something to be envious of no matter what prospects you get as a result
The thing with the Flames over the last little while is that they have just remained in the middle of the pack for so long. Neither moving up to be an elite team or down low enough to secure top end talent. Their drafting does leave something to be desired as well.

I've said it before, there are only a handful of places you want your team to be:

1) Elite team that is a legit contender for the cup (every team desires to be in this spot. Red Wings have kept this position since the 92 season. Amazing longevity at this spot due to their ability to spend pre-cap (not losing people they wanted), their drafting (getting great talent late in drafts), and their development of drafted players.
2) Playoff team moving up the ranks. This would be the LA Kings this season. Make the playoffs after their rebuild and work themselves to the top. Ala... the Hawks (who got lucky in the 2007 draft with Kane)
3) Rebuilding team competing for a playoff spot. After 2-3 years of finishing near the bottom, those youngsters are helping to get the team back to the playoffs. Don't want to finish in the 9-11 spot more than 2 years as you'd want to have the higher rated talent in the draft over the 10th place finish.
4) Rebuilding team at the bottom - restock the prospects.

Last place you want to be is a team that is slowly on the decline. Senators are in a similar spot with the Flames right now. Have some good players (Iggy, Kipper, Regehr, JBo, Bourque vs. Alfie, Spezza, Phillips, Fisher, Gonchar), but not enough to be a contender, but not poor enough to secure a top 3 pick. Also don't have enough young talent ready to step in and contribute right now to help the vets. But, vets would be too old to help the youngsters when they are ready.

This is the time management must make the tough decision to do the rebuild and jettison the big contracts and build their team back up. Hold on too long and the rebuild will last a long time as you'll just be relying on drafted players rather than drafted players plus a few prospects that you can get in trades.

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Old
12-06-2010, 07:31 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Street Hawk View Post
The thing with the Flames over the last little while is that they have just remained in the middle of the pack for so long. Neither moving up to be an elite team or down low enough to secure top end talent. Their drafting does leave something to be desired as well.

I've said it before, there are only a handful of places you want your team to be:

1) Elite team that is a legit contender for the cup (every team desires to be in this spot. Red Wings have kept this position since the 92 season. Amazing longevity at this spot due to their ability to spend pre-cap (not losing people they wanted), their drafting (getting great talent late in drafts), and their development of drafted players.
2) Playoff team moving up the ranks. This would be the LA Kings this season. Make the playoffs after their rebuild and work themselves to the top. Ala... the Hawks (who got lucky in the 2007 draft with Kane)
3) Rebuilding team competing for a playoff spot. After 2-3 years of finishing near the bottom, those youngsters are helping to get the team back to the playoffs. Don't want to finish in the 9-11 spot more than 2 years as you'd want to have the higher rated talent in the draft over the 10th place finish.
4) Rebuilding team at the bottom - restock the prospects.

Last place you want to be is a team that is slowly on the decline. Senators are in a similar spot with the Flames right now. Have some good players (Iggy, Kipper, Regehr, JBo, Bourque vs. Alfie, Spezza, Phillips, Fisher, Gonchar), but not enough to be a contender, but not poor enough to secure a top 3 pick. Also don't have enough young talent ready to step in and contribute right now to help the vets. But, vets would be too old to help the youngsters when they are ready.

This is the time management must make the tough decision to do the rebuild and jettison the big contracts and build their team back up. Hold on too long and the rebuild will last a long time as you'll just be relying on drafted players rather than drafted players plus a few prospects that you can get in trades.
Wow, if you're a woman, then I want to meet you, because I think we might be soul mates. Rarely do I agree 100% with a post on this site, but that was dead on. I've been saying the EXACT same thing since the lockout. Im a Sens fan, and I was against the Kovalev signing since day 1, against the Gonchar signing since day 1, and took a lot of heat for doing so. Great comment.

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Old
12-07-2010, 09:13 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by WoodwardAve View Post
Wow, if you're a woman, then I want to meet you, because I think we might be soul mates. Rarely do I agree 100% with a post on this site, but that was dead on. I've been saying the EXACT same thing since the lockout. Im a Sens fan, and I was against the Kovalev signing since day 1, against the Gonchar signing since day 1, and took a lot of heat for doing so. Great comment.
Your soulmate is a dude. Make the necessary adjustments

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Old
12-07-2010, 05:39 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
yupp, or the future "elites" in Cogliano and Gagne
No sane Oiler fan ever thought Cogs would be an elite center. Gagner is still a legit talent and would be your number one center. Hall is on another level when compared to Cogs or Gagner.

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Old
12-07-2010, 09:41 PM
  #40
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No.... Stajan is better than Gagner. Jokinen is crap I give you that. Langkow LTIR which sucks as he had great chemistry with Iginla before that stupid coach wrecked that too. Backlund just starting to get into the system.

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Old
12-08-2010, 12:22 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by GoFlames View Post
No.... Stajan is better than Gagner. Jokinen is crap I give you that. Langkow LTIR which sucks as he had great chemistry with Iginla before that stupid coach wrecked that too. Backlund just starting to get into the system.
If I had to choose between Stajan and Gagner it'd easily be Gagner. Much more sandpaper to him and he's only going to get better. For a small guy he can sure throw them, just ask Jokinen.

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12-08-2010, 08:11 PM
  #42
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If I had to choose between Stajan and Gagner it'd easily be Gagner. Much more sandpaper to him and he's only going to get better. For a small guy he can sure throw them, just ask Jokinen.
The bolded part is a knock against him. I prefer Stajan any day.

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Old
12-09-2010, 06:37 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GoFlames View Post
The bolded part is a knock against him. I prefer Stajan any day.
Matt Stajan is almost 6 years older than Gagner and has 1 whopping goal in 24 games. Is Stajan even still considered a "prospect" at this stage?

It's a pretty fair chance Gagner will surpass Stajan's career high of 55 points at some point in the next 5 years. Probably could even do it this year.

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:29 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Matt Stajan is almost 6 years older than Gagner and has 1 whopping goal in 24 games. Is Stajan even still considered a "prospect" at this stage?

It's a pretty fair chance Gagner will surpass Stajan's career high of 55 points at some point in the next 5 years. Probably could even do it this year.
No Stajan is not a prospect.... he is a NHL regular which is the better of the two, a proven commodity. Sure Gagner might allegedly surpass Stajan's points but could of would of should of comes to mind.

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12-09-2010, 09:49 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Matt Stajan is almost 6 years older than Gagner and has 1 whopping goal in 24 games. Is Stajan even still considered a "prospect" at this stage?

It's a pretty fair chance Gagner will surpass Stajan's career high of 55 points at some point in the next 5 years. Probably could even do it this year.
you have a point in saying Gagner will likey surpass Stajan as IMO right now they are pretty even... but bringing up Stajan only having 1 goal to make a point when their point per game pace is identical just makes you look like you are grasping for straws... yes Gagner is a better goalscorer... but Stajan is a better playmaker and that is just as important in a centerman

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Old
12-09-2010, 07:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
you have a point in saying Gagner will likey surpass Stajan as IMO right now they are pretty even... but bringing up Stajan only having 1 goal to make a point when their point per game pace is identical just makes you look like you are grasping for straws... yes Gagner is a better goalscorer... but Stajan is a better playmaker and that is just as important in a centerman
Gagner is an NHL regular at age 21 too, though, and far better than Stajan was at that comparable age. Sam is also a playmaker.

Most any GM would deal Stajan for Gagner in a heart beat, Sutter included.

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:34 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Gagner is an NHL regular at age 21 too, though, and far better than Stajan was at that comparable age. Sam is also a playmaker.

Most any GM would deal Stajan for Gagner in a heart beat, Sutter included.
So you allege...

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:48 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by GoFlames View Post
So you allege...
Sutter isn't that dumb man, give him more credit then that.

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:49 PM
  #49
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Sutter isn't that dumb man, give him more credit then that.
Oh we all know Sutter is dumb... no need to sugar coat it anymore!

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Old
12-09-2010, 08:55 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Gagner is an NHL regular at age 21 too, though, and far better than Stajan was at that comparable age. Sam is also a playmaker.

Most any GM would deal Stajan for Gagner in a heart beat, Sutter included.
can you actually read or do you just assume I am insulting your beloved Gagner because I'm a Flames fan... since clearly understanding an opinion out of context isn't your forte let me simplify

- right now Gagner and Stajan are of equal ability
- yes Gagner will very likely be better in a few years
- who cares if any GM would make that deal? I never said anything about htier trade values
- Gagner might be a playmaker but right now Stajan is a BETTER playmaker...

also how do you compare who was better @ 21 when Stajan's 21 year old season was in the AHL due to the lockout

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