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Old
12-02-2010, 10:31 PM
  #1
Satan'sIsland81
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Wisniewski

I posted about this topic way back when the losing streak was still in the beginning stages, but nobody really responded and I thought maybe it was just me. So, now I am going to ask again. For anybody that has seen Wiz play before he came to the Isles, is it just me or is his game completely different now, and by different I mean no physical play and no toughness.

Honestly, weeks later since I last posted about this, I still cannot remember a single big hit by him since the one against Dallas on opening night. Also, even if you youtube him, you would see he has been in countless fights over his career and done pretty well for himself. Actually, if you look at the dates on the fights, it seemed like he was fighting multiple times in a week often. He has not even been in so much as a shoving match in 20-something games with the Islanders.

Where is this edge to his game that he is supposed to have, and HAS HAD everywhere else he played?

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12-02-2010, 10:35 PM
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Fantom
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I have not liked him at all for us. i think is a bad hockey player

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12-02-2010, 10:37 PM
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I think once the defense started getting depleted his game shifted and he took a bit more responsibility in his game (even though it doesn't always seem like its the case). He doesn't have the flair in his game because he doesn't have the flexibility anymore to play like that. I'll be interested to see if his style of play changes now that Andy Mac, Hillen, and Jurcina are coming back.

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12-02-2010, 10:43 PM
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ledzep1212
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I hate to say it because I really liked him for the first few but he needs to go. Snow needs to see what he can get for him. Dude just can't play defense.

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12-02-2010, 10:45 PM
  #5
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Guy frustrates me. He is good on the PP when he shoots which is rare, but where was he on the gabroik winner tonight. He let him get right to the front and score an easy goal. He should have been more physical with Gaborik.

I don't think he is a top d-man, but on a good team he would be a good pp specialist doing 2nd pairing minutes.

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12-02-2010, 11:00 PM
  #6
Satan'sIsland81
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All fair points that have been brought up, but I do not really think any of the responses so far have addressed the specific subject I asked about -- namely, why has he not been hitting, why does he no longer fight, and why is he not playing physical -- these are all the things that were supposed to be the strengths of his game.

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12-02-2010, 11:01 PM
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Sidney the Kidney
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This is what happens when you put players in roles they're not equipped to play. Wisniewski is a solid NHLer when he's playing as a 4th or 5th defenseman. His warts become more obvious when he's tasked with playing above that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan'sIsland81 View Post
All fair points that have been brought up, but I do not really think any of the responses so far have addressed the specific subject I asked about -- namely, why has he not been hitting, why does he no longer fight, and why is he not playing physical -- these are all the things that were supposed to be the strengths of his game.
He's likely pacing himself. If he were getting less minutes, he could expend more energy throwing more checks. But he's expected to play close to 25 minutes of ice time, so he's got to conserve a bit. As for the lack of fighting, again, because of the role he's forced to play for the Isles. He's their default #1, and can't afford to be off the ice for 5 minutes for fighting.

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12-02-2010, 11:38 PM
  #8
majormet
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I do believe Wisnewski's role is Mark Streit with Streit out which means as Sidney pointed out... that he can't be off the ice for a 5 minute penalty and probably is less physical because his role is larger and he has to pace himself.

With that being said, he is a risky dman, who is a bottom pairing guy. Would be wiser to deal Martinek this year as well as Jurcina and hold on to Wizzer because if this team is healthy and the aberration known as 2010/2011 is over, this team should look like

Streit/MacDonald
Eaton/Wisniewski
Hamonic/Reese

Eaton would be warming the spot for De Haan and Wizzer would eventually be a popular player in the bottom pairing. He is liked by the fans it seems and probably will be a nice role player when the team is healthy.

Right now, he is very overmatched in his role, and we didn't make the trade to get him so that he could be a top pairing kind of player.

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12-03-2010, 12:21 AM
  #9
Riseonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormet View Post
I do believe Wisnewski's role is Mark Streit with Streit out which means as Sidney pointed out... that he can't be off the ice for a 5 minute penalty and probably is less physical because his role is larger and he has to pace himself.

With that being said, he is a risky dman, who is a bottom pairing guy. Would be wiser to deal Martinek this year as well as Jurcina and hold on to Wizzer because if this team is healthy and the aberration known as 2010/2011 is over, this team should look like

Streit/MacDonald
Eaton/Wisniewski
Hamonic/Reese

Eaton would be warming the spot for De Haan and Wizzer would eventually be a popular player in the bottom pairing. He is liked by the fans it seems and probably will be a nice role player when the team is healthy.

Right now, he is very overmatched in his role, and we didn't make the trade to get him so that he could be a top pairing kind of player.
Deal Martinek? Ehhhhhh I dunno about that.

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12-03-2010, 01:24 AM
  #10
WHARF1940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Deal Martinek? Ehhhhhh I dunno about that.
Martinek's subpar play tonight aside he is our most solid D on most nights. That being said I'm just waiting for him to get hurt so arguments could be mmade either way for dealing him....

But to get back on topic, I have been very disappoinnted with wizzer. I don't think he should be fighting as the op is asking about for the same reason mentioned above (cant afford to have him in the box for 5 mins.) but a little toughness would be nice. He (and many other Isles for that matter) has become captain stickcheck. He's been exposed many times this season and I constantly find myself screaming "take the freakin body" at the television. If this crap keeps up I think I'm gonna wind up homeless.......

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Old
12-03-2010, 02:22 AM
  #11
OlTimeHockey
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Wiz = Niinimaa.

No one hits like they used to when they become Islanders......the Islanders flat out tell them to become Adrian Aucoin and then the player just doesn't play his game again.

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Old
12-03-2010, 06:07 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is what happens when you put players in roles they're not equipped to play. Wisniewski is a solid NHLer when he's playing as a 4th or 5th defenseman. His warts become more obvious when he's tasked with playing above that.



He's likely pacing himself. If he were getting less minutes, he could expend more energy throwing more checks. But he's expected to play close to 25 minutes of ice time, so he's got to conserve a bit. As for the lack of fighting, again, because of the role he's forced to play for the Isles. He's their default #1, and can't afford to be off the ice for 5 minutes for fighting.
yes I agree with Sidney's points, Wiz is a pro and is pacing himself. He is the defunct #1 right now. Why blow your load in one game? now if this was game 7 in the NHL playoffs I am sure Wiz would play reckless but hopefully smart and controlled at the same time

having said this, he should slip into a 2nd unit quite nicely paired with a big stay at homer I feel, in the perfect environment ofcourse.

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12-03-2010, 08:01 AM
  #13
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I was going to start a thread on old #20 myself but saw its already been done. Since I started watching he has stood out to me by far as the worst Dman we have. Eaton is much much better.

Hamonic is the best defender we have atm. Reese is pretty bad but think he has promise.

Why in hockey do people think you MUST spend years in the AHL? Like Hamonic. as soon as others are back healthy he will be sent down but he is clearly the best guy we have other than Streit. So why send him back down?

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12-03-2010, 10:10 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
Deal Martinek? Ehhhhhh I dunno about that.
I was saying dealing Martinek from strength in that he is not injured and playing his best hockey... he has more value right now than normal. Plus he is not really a fan favorite and not part of the future.

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12-03-2010, 01:42 PM
  #15
crashthenet
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Wiz hasn't been the same since he changed sticks. Forget everything else for a moment and try to remember when he was hammering the puck from the top on the PP. Where'd that go? did teams adjust?

He may have lost the edge because we can't afford to have him in the box. Either way, if he and Marty are traded we would not be much worse.

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12-03-2010, 02:01 PM
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OlTimeHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormet View Post
I was saying dealing Martinek from strength in that he is not injured and playing his best hockey... he has more value right now than normal. Plus he is not really a fan favorite and not part of the future.
He's a vet with solid technical ability who hasn't been hurt yet (knock on wood) so we have Hamonic and MacD and other young players learning from.......Wiz. Yeah, trade him. In order to get better players, you have to get rid of the best you have.

Streit has to go, too. Trade him before he gets worse. He's taking a kid's spot.


How about we just sign and build around better players? Keep the best ones (and the best values) you have and go from there.

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12-03-2010, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is what happens when you put players in roles they're not equipped to play. Wisniewski is a solid NHLer when he's playing as a 4th or 5th defenseman. His warts become more obvious when he's tasked with playing above that.



He's likely pacing himself. If he were getting less minutes, he could expend more energy throwing more checks. But he's expected to play close to 25 minutes of ice time, so he's got to conserve a bit. As for the lack of fighting, again, because of the role he's forced to play for the Isles. He's their default #1, and can't afford to be off the ice for 5 minutes for fighting.

Totally agree. If Streit were healthy and we had atleast another #2 or #3 guy on the team Wis would no doubt be struggling much less.

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12-03-2010, 02:37 PM
  #18
caliamad
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Duck fans saw something very similar when he was with us. Excelled as a #4, struggled more as #3 and even more as a #2.

Sometime during the beginning of last year, he got a 2 game suspension for open ice hit on Shane Doan. Ever since that he was never the same player, started wearing a visor and took a big part of the physicality out of his game. Positioning is not his strong suit either.

Why he was dealt is he statistically can compare himself to other team's #2... the belief is he he settled for 3.25 million and he wanted closer to 4.5.

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12-03-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swd1974 View Post
I was going to start a thread on old #20 myself but saw its already been done. Since I started watching he has stood out to me by far as the worst Dman we have. Eaton is much much better.

Hamonic is the best defender we have atm. Reese is pretty bad but think he has promise.

Why in hockey do people think you MUST spend years in the AHL? Like Hamonic. as soon as others are back healthy he will be sent down but he is clearly the best guy we have other than Streit. So why send him back down?
Because it is the safest route of development?

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12-03-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
Why he was dealt is he statistically can compare himself to other team's #2... the belief is he he settled for 3.25 million and he wanted closer to 4.5.
If he is looking for that much money I have no interest at all in keeping him. Get whatever you can for him at the deadline.

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12-03-2010, 02:42 PM
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Wiz hasn't been the same since he changed sticks. Forget everything else for a moment and try to remember when he was hammering the puck from the top on the PP. Where'd that go? did teams adjust?
The problem with that slap shot is that while it is very hard, he takes a huge wind-up to get it off, thus giving time for the goalies to set up for it. And since no one on the power play goes to the net, you can't even hope to put it past a screen.

And yes, teams are expecting it as well. He's the only offensive minded defenceman on the current roster, so it's very easy to keep him covered.

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12-03-2010, 02:55 PM
  #22
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Because it is the safest route of development?
If a guy has the talent and ability to play in the NHL let him play. Why not let Crosby and JT rot in the AHL then?

The dude is proving he is probbaly our best defenseman right now. let him play.

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12-03-2010, 04:48 PM
  #23
majormet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
He's a vet with solid technical ability who hasn't been hurt yet (knock on wood) so we have Hamonic and MacD and other young players learning from.......Wiz. Yeah, trade him. In order to get better players, you have to get rid of the best you have.

Streit has to go, too. Trade him before he gets worse. He's taking a kid's spot.


How about we just sign and build around better players? Keep the best ones (and the best values) you have and go from there.
Well we have Streit, Eaton and Wisniewski plus Mottau, so Martinek could be expendable, my feeling is trade him while he is in rare good health. You can package Martinek and Roloson to get a #1 pick, I think Tampa Bay would give up a #1 for that package.

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12-03-2010, 06:21 PM
  #24
Doug Height
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swd1974 View Post
If a guy has the talent and ability to play in the NHL let him play. Why not let Crosby and JT rot in the AHL then?

The dude is proving he is probbaly our best defenseman right now. let him play.
I am not talking about Hamonic. I am talking about prospects in general.

Obviously Crosby and JT are exceptions. There is a reason the Wings have almost everyone one of their prospects go through the A.

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12-03-2010, 06:58 PM
  #25
Riseonfire
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I know a lot of people are hating on Wisniweski here, but if our D is 100% healthy, he is our #2 Dman. Because of the injuries, he weaknesses are being exposed and he looks like a 4-5 Dman. He might play 2nd pairing when we are healthy, but his impact would be exponentially more if we have a healthy team. I'm all for resigning him for 2-3 years.

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