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Old
12-04-2010, 08:04 AM
  #101
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So last week they were developing too slowly and this week too quick

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12-04-2010, 08:09 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
So last week they were developing too slowly and this week too quick
Everybody is happy when our coung guns develope good, but some are hot to get another Top 3 pick. You should understand it. it shouldn't be a groupfight "draft fans" vs. "Immediately success fans" here.
In the end we all want the most possible success for the Oilers, at least midterm.

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12-04-2010, 08:39 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Hellbaum View Post
Too bad we don't find them later in the first round, or Zetterbergs later in the later rounds. (Except of Eberle in that great year)
And too bad interesting ufa don't sign in Edmonton so far.
You make it look as it is a 50/50 chance to draft a good player when you have a Top 5 lick, what is absurde.
Not at all but if that's what you got out of my post, I really can't help you.

My point was, winning should always be the number one goal of any organization and there are many ways to build a Stanley Cup winning team without sucking for 5 years straight because as many teams like the Islanders, Columbus and Atlanta have shown, it doesn't always work.

Look at Atlanta. One of the big reason for the turnaround is the Byfglien trade from Chicago and the Kovalchuk deal.

If the teams wins they will attrack FAs to complement their good draft picks.

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12-04-2010, 09:11 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You still want to send Hall back to Junior?

Save an elc year?
Obvious troll is obvious.

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12-04-2010, 09:13 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Not at all but if that's what you got out of my post, I really can't help you.

My point was, winning should always be the number one goal of any organization and there are many ways to build a Stanley Cup winning team without sucking for 5 years straight because as many teams like the Islanders, Columbus and Atlanta have shown, it doesn't always work.

Look at Atlanta. One of the big reason for the turnaround is the Byfglien trade from Chicago and the Kovalchuk deal.

If the teams wins they will attrack FAs to complement their good draft picks.
Wait, you made that pint with 3 Top 5 busts and 3 good Top 5 picks. = 50/50
I know that it can't be high draft picks alone. But when you don#t have good managment you have to hope to get at least good draft picks.
When in the history of the Edmonton Oilers only one good UFA signed with the team?

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12-04-2010, 09:21 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Obvious troll is obvious.
Just looking for some accountability.

Is there any to be found?

Apparently not.

No surprise really.

Keep on keeping on telling everyone how wrong they are.

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12-04-2010, 10:29 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
I'm not even sure If I really need to write anything here, most people will infer what I'm talking about from the topic.

The Flames are slipping below us in the standings. There are only a couple of top end centers in this draft and the Flames would certainly jump at the chance to draft one of them. If we wind up higher in the standings, our rate of improvement will slow and the rate of improvement of our future competitors like the Flames (and Wild) will greatly increase. If we want to win a cup in this highly competitive league, now is the time to make the sacrifice.

We should play Strudwick and MacIntyre. Prevent injuries to key futures and prevent us from doing too much damage on the scoreboard.
Omark needs to stay on the farm until post trade-deadline.
Paajarvi should go to WJC.
We should consider trades to add draft picks or D prospects.

In the long run, we will greatly benefit from adding one final blue chip to this team.

The reasoning behind this thread:

Eberle and Hall are only getting better. The line between who is better: Hemsky/Penner/whoever and the kids is getting blurry. A team with a top 9 like ours that is continually improving will start to become very dangerous. If the kids are having an off-night, we are still good up front. If they kids are having an on night, we are winning the game. Our goaltending is reasonable -- if one falters, another will offer a solution with solid play. We can't expect it to lose us games on a consistent basis anymore (even with our D).

If we are careful and meticulous in our player selection, this draft/UFA period/summer trades/ training camp will be the one that truly launches the competitive era of dynasty 2.0
I haven't read the thread yet, and have lots to say on your comments alone, but can I ask if you're a season ticket holder, or even pay money to watch the occasional game?
I normally find it to be true that it's never anyone who pays to go see the team that encourages the oilers to intentionally tank.

I don't think this hot streak will last but I think the team would show a great lack of any integrity, values and professional pride to follow your plan. and that would be the kind of team I would refuse to support.
while while I get what you're saying, it disgusts me.

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Old
12-04-2010, 10:42 AM
  #108
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To the OP.. they have treatments for your premature issues


The Flamers won last night, which means the Oilers are in sole possession of last place in the West. Aside from the ******-ass Islanders, the Oilers are still within a few points of the worst teams in the East. Let's see this team pick-up 9-10 points on this homestand, before we start *****ing about winning hockey games.

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12-04-2010, 11:16 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Just looking for some accountability.

Is there any to be found?

Apparently not.

No surprise really.

Keep on keeping on telling everyone how wrong they are.
Why would ii "be accountable" (whatever that means) for something I never said?

I was always pretty clear that it was an idea to consider, nothing more. Maybe if your brain could fathom concepts beyond the most absolute, you'd have seen that.

Whether it was a good idea or not won't be seen for three more years anyway.

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12-04-2010, 11:27 AM
  #110
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Are the Oilers improving too quickly? Perhaps, but I wouldn't want to stunt the growth of this team. Its funny how a normal team usually has its vets help the rookies along but on this team the rookies are ths ones that are helping the vets along therefore changing the culture and the style of this team. As long as the the coaching staff keeps trusting the rookies, the vets will have to fall in line, and then everything will fall in place.

As much as I would like to have Couturier come here and have him be a plug and play piece, we can't stunt the growth of the kids that are already here. I wonder if Tambo would consider rolling the dice and deal our first rounder for a #1 center that may become available, as long as it becomes clear that Couturier becomes a "pipe dream".

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12-04-2010, 12:10 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Why would ii "be accountable" (whatever that means) for something I never said?
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
If Hall et al play even close to even the lowest expectations for them, the chances of that lottery pick shrink dramatically. IAs for development, that's the point: start this year with two rookies (Eberle and Omark, say) and bring in more next season. Don't rush anyone, take your time.




I think the argument that "all first overall picks play straight out of junior, therefore all first overall picks should play straight out of junior" is pretty weak. There's no evidence any of those players would have been harmed by an extra year in the A or junior. Yet by your own admission, some of these players (Stamkos and Tavares come to mind) don't break out until their sophomore year, which raises the possibility that they would have been better off with an extra year of development.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214

Not surprising that you would try to weasel out of it. Why not just admit it and move on?

Quote:
I was always pretty clear that it was an idea to consider, nothing more. Maybe if your brain could fathom concepts beyond the most absolute, you'd have seen that.
An idea to consider?

Sure. That's why you went on and argued at great length in that thread. Because it was nothing more than an idea to consider.

And really, it isnt.

Quote:
Whether it was a good idea or not won't be seen for three more years anyway.
No, I think it can be seen right now. So do most people that have a clue.


Last edited by I am the Liquor: 12-04-2010 at 12:18 PM.
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Old
12-04-2010, 12:18 PM
  #112
Jet
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I am SO against this type of thinking. You ALWAYS try to win and do your best. Do you think the Avalanche thought they would be this good last year and heading into this year? They were into a rebuild and could have easily traded away Hejduk etc. and tried to tank for picks. Instead they see that they can actually reload faster with the players they have now. Thier young players have been carrying the mail for them because they seem to be, as a group, mature for their age.

What if the Oilers players are like that? It seems to me that even through our struggles, our younger players have been consistently good. Who even says that our first pick will turn out to be an impact player. IMHO its not worth sacrificing the whole season to find out. If you are coming up to the trade deadline and you are bottom 5 then yes, go ahead and dress all your scrubs and lose, but not 25 odd games into the season ffs.

Teams that should be intentionally tanking are teams like the Flames and the Leafs (if they actually had their first pick). Teams with no prospect depth and no real young talent.

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12-04-2010, 12:18 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214



http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214

Not surprising that you would try to weasel out of it. Why not just admit it and move on?



An idea to consider?

Sure. That's why you went on and argued at great length in that thread. Because it was nothing more than an idea to consider.

And really, it isnt.



No, I think it can be seen right now. So do most people that have a clue.
BUSTED!

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Old
12-04-2010, 12:19 PM
  #114
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I'm not worried by a little success. Lmao! I'm glad they are having some success. I predicted a 20th place finish. We're kidding ourselves if we think this team will finish in the bottom 5 without the same amount of injuries as last season. I said form the start that this team is better than last seasons team with or without injuries. Our rookies are far greater than all the players that got bought out or traded away. The Oilers will be fine. They've been drafting great since Tambi took control. Look at our drafted prospects in Juniors and the farm right now.. they are looking great. The Oilers have a Gagner that is finally becoming the player we all thought he'd become. We have Hall who will continue to get better and become a top player in this league. We have Eberle whom is by far the most intelligent player we've seen since Weight. We have Peckham that is developing into a solid physical/mean stay at home d'man. The Oilers already have a great core of young talent. They just need time to become a constant threat. The Oilers will not be hurt by a little success and drafting 10th - 15th this summer. When you mix the gradual success with the gradual development of the young players, it equates to a winning team with a winning attitude with a bright future. Trying to lose for the purpose of drafting high a few seasons in a row can spell disaster as well. Look at the Islanders for instance. The Oilers already drafted a few high picks the last 3 seasons courtesy of losing seasons. Gagner, Paajarvi and Hall. They ended up with the 22nd overall draft pick in Eberle and that didn't hurt them. In fact, it was fate. If they drafted any higher, they'd have lost out in that draft. You cannot expect to lose bad for too many seasons in a short time and think success will come from it. I think it would be worse if they continue to keep that pace up. The losing mentality will cramp this team and perhaps stagnate the development of the young kids.. which in turn may force some to not want to play here.

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Old
12-04-2010, 12:21 PM
  #115
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Think of the Oilers as the price of natural gas. One day you make 10% on your hedge, the next you can lose that much or more. It's a rollercoaster ride and the highs will be very high, the lows very low.

I fully expect we'll have plenty of streaks of both kinds all season.

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Old
12-04-2010, 12:26 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
A) Pittsburgh has Crosby. As Ryan Whitney will attest, there is no Crosby in our room.
B) Pittsburgh drafted Ryan Whitney, Alex Goligoski, Kris Letang, Brooks Oprik, etc.
C) Pittsburgh is not a dynasty.

Even with Crosby there is no dynasty. We don't have Crosby. We have to beat Crosby each year if we want a dynasty.
There is no such thing as a dynasty in a post cap NHL. No one can keep a team of that ilk together financially.

The only team that is *close to being a dynasty is the Red Wings, and they don't stay good through high draft picks. It certainly isn't that Detroit is a nice city that everyone wants to live in either.

They do it with shrewd drafting, identifying the RIGHT FA to aquire (not just throwing money at a Ilya Kovalchuk), and offering proper contracts to players AND beink ok with letting them walk if they think they can get more elsewhere.

Drafting high year after year guarantees NOTHING. Just ask Atlanta, Florida or NYI.

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12-04-2010, 12:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
I'm not worried by a little success. Lmao! I'm glad they are having some success. I predicted a 20th place finish. We're kidding ourselves if we think this team will finish in the bottom 5 without the same amount of injuries as last season. I said form the start that this team is better than last seasons team with or without injuries. Our rookies are far greater than all the players that got bought out or traded away. The Oilers will be fine. They've been drafting great since Tambi took control. Look at our drafted prospects in Juniors and the farm right now.. they are looking great. The Oilers have a Gagner that is finally becoming the player we all thought he'd become. We have Hall who will continue to get better and become a top player in this league. We have Eberle whom is by far the most intelligent player we've seen since Weight. We have Peckham that is developing into a solid physical/mean stay at home d'man. The Oilers already have a great core of young talent. They just need time to become a constant threat. The Oilers will not be hurt by a little success and drafting 10th - 15th this summer. When you mix the gradual success with the gradual development of the young players, it equates to a winning team with a winning attitude with a bright future. Trying to lose for the purpose of drafting high a few seasons in a row can spell disaster as well. Look at the Islanders for instance. The Oilers already drafted a few high picks the last 3 seasons courtesy of losing seasons. Gagner, Paajarvi and Hall. They ended up with the 22nd overall draft pick in Eberle and that didn't hurt them. In fact, it was fate. If they drafted any higher, they'd have lost out in that draft. You cannot expect to lose bad for too many seasons in a short time and think success will come from it. I think it would be worse if they continue to keep that pace up. The losing mentality will cramp this team and perhaps stagnate the development of the young kids.. which in turn may force some to not want to play here.
I love this post.

One very valid point you make, and one that people seem to forget over and over and over is that the Oiler team that was dead last last year was CRIPPLED with injuries to pretty much all their star players. Getting back healthy Horcoffs and Hemskys, and replacing injured Visnovskys with Whitneys automatically improves this team drastically. It's like we made a whackload of FA aquisitions at the beginning of this season. You cannot look at this years Oilers the same way as last.

I still believe that we will be talking the possibility of playoffs after the All Star Break. I will admit after those blowouts we had in succession earlier I was starting to have my doubts. I don't think this team is a lottery team, it's a playoff bubble team with great prospects for the next 5-10 years.

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12-04-2010, 12:51 PM
  #118
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I have always been one of the people who was hoping for a top 3 pick this year but watching this team grow and seeing the joy on their faces and the team comradery that is developing is priceless for a rebuilding team and will pay dividends down the road.
I can't understand how anybody can be upset after watching this team play as well as it has since the Phoenix game.
There was a lot of complaining 2 weeks ago about the lack of effort and that it's so tough to watch our beloved team get blown out on a daily basis and now some people are afraid of winning?

The bottom line is that even though this winning streak is nice, the team still has tons of holes and is still well on track to finishing in the bottom 5. The only teams that realistically have a good shot of finishing below the Oilers are the Islanders (who are a lock imo for bottom of the league), Leafs and maybe Panthers. I see the Devils improving at some point and the Flames and Sens are still better teams than the Oilers.

Another thing is that this draft isn't so top heavy like the last draft was, Hall and Seguin were the prizes then there was a big drop off. This is a draft in which there is very little separation in the top 5 from Larsson to Murphy and even beyond that there are good impact prospects like Strome, Siemens (my personal preference outside of the top 4), Hamilton etc. so lets just enjoy watching the growth of this team and worry about draft position later in the season.

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12-04-2010, 01:00 PM
  #119
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This point is so conveniently ignored by those folks who want to lose so we can eventually win . I'll see your Islanders example and raise you the Ottawa Senators . How many years did that team suck ? How many high draft picks ? How many Cups ? They look to be about right back where they started with nothing to show for all their seasons of losing . Getting a high draft pick is no guarantee that you will a) choose the right guy , b) develop him properly or c) have the depth on the rest of your roster required to win in the NHL . In short , drafting high does not equal a visit with Stanley four years later . If you think it does , stop by the Islanders or Sens board and ask them what they think .
I'm sorry but this is a horrid example to add to the Islanders example. The Senators for about 10 years were basically what the Sharks are now, they were consistently one of the best regular season teams for many years but always seemed to choke come playoff time so i don't know where you get seasons of losing from, they were one of the most successful franchises for about a 10 year stretch.

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12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
  #120
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Wait, you made that pint with 3 Top 5 busts and 3 good Top 5 picks. = 50/50
Thanks for the math lesson. Those were examples. I would hope you'd be smart enough to understand that I did not perform a statistical analysis for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellbaum View Post
I know that it can't be high draft picks alone. But when you don#t have good managment you have to hope to get at least good draft picks.
When in the history of the Edmonton Oilers only one good UFA signed with the team?
In terms of UFAs signing with the club, when have the Oilers had a good enough team to attract UFAs? Or are you part of the conspiracy theorists to think that everybody is out to get the Oilers or that everybody hates the barren wasteland that is Edmonton, which is why no one signs there?

When the Oilers develop a good enough team and the young core is ready for primetime, they will attract the UFAs. See, it doesn't matter if the team plays in New York, Edmonton or Resolute Bay. If a player has a chance to win, he'll sign there.

Do you think players sign in Detroit because of it's beautiful weather or attractive landscape? The Detroit Red Wings are winners and they've been winners for 20 years. The Oilers have lost for 20 years - that's why no one signs there.

If Hall, Eberle, PRV, Gagner, Hemsky, Penner and eventually Omark develop into a good nucleus, I could definately see FAs signing in Edmonton. They do have the cash and the cap space.

Now you crap on management. I think they should be given a chance. They admitted they screwed up by going after the big fish, they have change the way they are doing things. Personally, I'm willing to see how this plays out.

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12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214



http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...&postcount=214

Not surprising that you would try to weasel out of it. Why not just admit it and move on?



An idea to consider?

Sure. That's why you went on and argued at great length in that thread. Because it was nothing more than an idea to consider.

And really, it isnt.



No, I think it can be seen right now. So do most people that have a clue.
rofl...classic! Nice one IATL!

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12-04-2010, 01:31 PM
  #122
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There is no such thing as a dynasty in a post cap NHL. No one can keep a team of that ilk together financially.
There hasn't been, but there could still be. It really comes down to how good your core is + how capably your management performs when filling out the roster.

Quote:
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The only team that is *close to being a dynasty is the Red Wings, and they don't stay good through high draft picks. It certainly isn't that Detroit is a nice city that everyone wants to live in either.

They do it with shrewd drafting, identifying the RIGHT FA to aquire (not just throwing money at a Ilya Kovalchuk), and offering proper contracts to players AND beink ok with letting them walk if they think they can get more elsewhere.
I would argue the Pittsburgh is "close" as well, mostly due to their 1-2 draft picks. We'll see how it all plays out over the next few years.

Detroit got where they are with a little bit of luck and good scouting. They didn't have to draft 1st overall to get Zetterberg and Datsyuk and the ageless wonder Lidstrom. But they have drafted their core. Eberle will obviously be part of ours, But we are missing the center and the D-man. They identified theirs and locked them up long term - at discount rates.

Lidstrom won't be around forever. Its about the quality of your core and they won't find anyone good enough to replace him drafting 53rd overall. If we want a D-man to fill that kind of role for us for 2 decades we are going to need more than just luck, regardless of how we attempt to do it. My point has been that you can't fill 2 core positions through free agency and trades. Those players turn out to be less loyal and a lot more expensive, not to mention harder to find quality players that are available. Teams keep the best ones under contract and don't let go unless they have bad management.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
Drafting high year after year guarantees NOTHING. Just ask Atlanta, Florida or NYI.
It is not a stretch to suggest that these teams have had management crises over those periods. I'll leave it at that.

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12-04-2010, 01:43 PM
  #123
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Thanks for the math lesson. Those were examples. I would hope you'd be smart enough to understand that I did not perform a statistical analysis for you.



In terms of UFAs signing with the club, when have the Oilers had a good enough team to attract UFAs? Or are you part of the conspiracy theorists to think that everybody is out to get the Oilers or that everybody hates the barren wasteland that is Edmonton, which is why no one signs there?

When the Oilers develop a good enough team and the young core is ready for primetime, they will attract the UFAs. See, it doesn't matter if the team plays in New York, Edmonton or Resolute Bay. If a player has a chance to win, he'll sign there.

Do you think players sign in Detroit because of it's beautiful weather or attractive landscape? The Detroit Red Wings are winners and they've been winners for 20 years. The Oilers have lost for 20 years - that's why no one signs there.

If Hall, Eberle, PRV, Gagner, Hemsky, Penner and eventually Omark develop into a good nucleus, I could definately see FAs signing in Edmonton. They do have the cash and the cap space.

Now you crap on management. I think they should be given a chance. They admitted they screwed up by going after the big fish, they have change the way they are doing things. Personally, I'm willing to see how this plays out.
When you make an exampel with 3 good and 3 bad examples you make it look as it were a 50/50 thing, not me.
Why we can't attract interesting ufa to sign is a question that will have several answers. In the end it doesn't matter why and the result remains that we can't attract interestign ufa's. Even not after the scf run.

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12-04-2010, 02:06 PM
  #124
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two words: Jeff Skinner

picked 7th overall

and this draft is considered even more wide open in the top 10

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12-04-2010, 02:25 PM
  #125
alphahelix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
two words: Jeff Skinner

picked 7th overall

and this draft is considered even more wide open in the top 10
Oh my god, its so simple! Why didn't we realize this before? We can just draft the Eberle/Skinner/Datsyuk/Zetterberg out of every draft while all of the other teams ignore them for being "too good to be true" and "not having enough buzz" !

Well, case closed. A century of consecutive cup wins, here we come! We need to take down the Gretzky statue and erect one in your honor ASAP.

EDIT: just re-read that and it comes off more mean-spirited than I had intended... although I was being flagrantly facetious. Just poking fun.


Last edited by alphahelix: 12-04-2010 at 02:34 PM.
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