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Which Gretzky records CAN be beaten?

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Old
12-03-2010, 03:54 PM
  #1
shazariahl
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Which Gretzky records CAN be beaten?

Looking at the "who can beat Gretzky's goals records" in the polls section got me wondering. Are there any of his records that realistically can be beaten by players today? Obviously I'm not talking his big ones, like career points, assists, 163 assists in a season, 215 pts, 50 in 39, 51 game point streak or 50 career hat tricks or anything else obviously impossible in today's game.

But I figured there had to be SOME that were within reach. Looking over his records in Wikipedia I settled upon the following, in no particular order:

a. Most goals in 1 period: 4 (tied with 10 other players)
b. Most overtime assists: career: 15
c. Most assists 1 playoff period: 3 (done 70 different times, 3 of them by Gretzky)
d. Most points 1 playoff period: 4 (tied with 9 other players)
e. Most short handed goals in 1 playoff year: 3 (tied with 5 other players)
f. Most assist during the final round of the playoffs: 10

As you can see, most the ones I felt could be beaten are records already tied amongst other players. I figured if others have done it as well, someone could eventually just do 1 better.

From the 6 I mentioned above, I would probably rank them from most likely to least as c,a,b,d,e, and f. The career OT assists record I think could eventually fall - it wouldn't be easy, but for much of Gretzky's career there wasn't OT for regular season games. More importantly, it wasn't there for the first and most productive part of his career. I thought a talented playmaker having a long career on a good team could do it, between regular season and playoffs.

Many of the others are hard because they are playoff records, so you have to have a good enough team to get in, and have enough luck/skill to then pull it off. 10 assists in the cup finals is doable, IMO, but since only 2 teams get there, the amount of players who realistically have a shot at this are a pretty small sample size. Still, Gretzky set the record in 4 games (plus suspended game which had to be replayed, but the scoring counted for points). Since its not a PPG record, in a 7 game series someone could get 11 assists. Its certainly more doable than many of the others.

Anyways, thoughts? Comments? How would you rank them and why? Or are there others that you think would be easier to break? I didn't bother with all-star records, because to me all star games aren't real games, so all star records aren't really important. But maybe there's a couple from there people think would be easier to break? Let me hear your thoughts.


Last edited by shazariahl: 12-03-2010 at 05:16 PM. Reason: EDIT: apparantly b has been beaten - wikipedia still listed it as one of his records, but they have an update further down.
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Old
12-03-2010, 04:53 PM
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Scott1980
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The last two would be possible, but I'm not sure if it is possible to do that like Wayne did.

A player could get 4 shorthanded goals in one playoffs year if he played in about 24 or more games. Didn't Gretzky get that in 16 games in '83?

As for his 10 assists? Grezky got that in less than 5 FULL games in the 1988 SCF. Hmmmm, I think we're looking at a minimum of a 6 game series. More likely, 7 games!

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12-03-2010, 05:17 PM
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EventHorizon
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That shorthanded goal record I think is the toughest out of the ones you mentioned. Things are going to have to go just right and teams play more disciplined in the playoffs. 3 goals doesn't seem like a lot but we're talking about playoff teams who probably have good power plays. And then the deeper you get into the playoffs, the better the teams you'll be facing. Yeah, I think that one is a bit more difficult than it appears on the surface.

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12-03-2010, 06:13 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EventHorizon View Post
That shorthanded goal record I think is the toughest out of the ones you mentioned. Things are going to have to go just right and teams play more disciplined in the playoffs. 3 goals doesn't seem like a lot but we're talking about playoff teams who probably have good power plays. And then the deeper you get into the playoffs, the better the teams you'll be facing. Yeah, I think that one is a bit more difficult than it appears on the surface.
Todd Marchant of all people scored 3 shorthanded goals (out of 4 total goals) in 12 games (a second round loss) in the 1997 playoffs.

It's such a fluky thing that I think eventually someone will have to get 4 in a full playoff year.

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12-03-2010, 08:02 PM
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shazariahl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Todd Marchant of all people scored 3 shorthanded goals (out of 4 total goals) in 12 games (a second round loss) in the 1997 playoffs.

It's such a fluky thing that I think eventually someone will have to get 4 in a full playoff year.
That's what I was thinking too - it'll take some luck and the right timing, but some of these are beatable. Certainly moreso than any of the main records, which are all out of reach. Probably forever.

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12-03-2010, 08:12 PM
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I think Gretzky's record of 73 career shorthanded goals could be beaten.
With that said, I don't think it will be beaten.

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12-04-2010, 01:12 AM
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Until Ovechkin slowed down this year (sof ar), I felt like the all time goals record could fall. Obviously not easily, but it's way more beatable than the assists or total points.

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12-04-2010, 01:55 AM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Todd Marchant of all people scored 3 shorthanded goals (out of 4 total goals) in 12 games (a second round loss) in the 1997 playoffs.

It's such a fluky thing that I think eventually someone will have to get 4 in a full playoff year.
That's just the thing. Sometimes these records that get broken in a short duration can come right out of left field. How many people know that Brian Boucher of all people has the longest shutout streak in the regular season?

That being said I have always thought 92 goals could fall at some time. Its only been challenged twice in the 28 years it was done. This was 1989 with 85 for Lemieux and 86 in 1991 for Hull. Gretzky himself nearly broke it in 1984 with 87 goals. But a freak season by Crosby where all the cards fall into place is possible, unlikely, but remotely possible.

I know Gretzky shares this record with Bossy, but most 50 goal seasons (9) can possibly break. Again, unlikely, but a great career would be needed.

So far for 50 goal seasons and the players with a decent shot to break it are:

Ovechkin - 4
Crosby - 1 (on pace to do it this year)
Stamkos - 1 (on pace to do it this year)

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12-04-2010, 02:23 AM
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Gretzky was a pretty good diver, but I think Ribeiro may have a shot at that record.

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12-04-2010, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post

So far for 50 goal seasons and the players with a decent shot to break it are:

Ovechkin - 4
Crosby - 1 (on pace to do it this year)
Stamkos - 1 (on pace to do it this year)
Ov's non 50 season was 46 goals as well.

This is the thing that stands out the most when I read some post saying that Crosby will break any of Gretzky's goal records.
Also, the last I checked, Sid was almost 80 goals behind OV.

Crosby is having a great start this year but man, every where you look around here it's "Crosby is as good as Gretzky now" or "Crosby has the best shot of breaking Gretzky's records" or "Crosby is the best 2 way player since the lockout".

Talk about getting out of hand, my god.

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12-04-2010, 02:44 AM
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Gretzky was a pretty good diver, but I think Ribeiro may have a shot at that record.
Oh yeah Ribeiro and Kovalev both take this award. Kovalev turned his into a lost art though on a more consistent basis. Bill Barber would exaggerate a trip, Kovalev would lie on the ice like he'd be shot on D-Day. Kozlov is up there too. There was a time in the conference final in 1995 when he was down on the ice after what looks like a "tug" on his shoulder area against the Blackhawks. He goes down hard and is lying on the ice, breathing hard with his eyes closed. Its on Rock Em Rock Em #7. I still have no idea why he was hurt.

But nothing beats Ribeiro. I'll give him "credit", not everyone has the smarts to roll around on the ice pretending your ribs are broken in order to stop the clock late in the game. Most guys have honour and dignity and win or lose the game without crying wolf. Not Ribeiro though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Ov's non 50 season was 46 goals as well.

This is the thing that stands out the most when I read some post saying that Crosby will break any of Gretzky's goal records.
Also, the last I checked, Sid was almost 80 goals behind OV.

Crosby is having a great start this year but man, every where you look around here it's "Crosby is as good as Gretzky now" or "Crosby has the best shot of breaking Gretzky's records" or "Crosby is the best 2 way player since the lockout".

Talk about getting out of hand, my god.
Crosby, or Ovechkin for that matter, are not Gretzky or Lemieux. The eye test alone tells us Gretzky and Lemieux were the more dominant players. The stats do as well. They have a long ways to go, but there are some lower case records that Crosby can beat. He's young. But I'll reserve my judgement until the end of his career if he was anywhere near the other two.

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12-04-2010, 02:54 AM
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Rhiessan71
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post

Crosby, or Ovechkin for that matter, are not Gretzky or Lemieux. The eye test alone tells us Gretzky and Lemieux were the more dominant players. The stats do as well. They have a long ways to go, but there are some lower case records that Crosby can beat. He's young. But I'll reserve my judgement until the end of his career if he was anywhere near the other two.

Yeah but dude....didn't you know that with adjusted stats, Crosby is like right on Gretzky's and Lemieux's tail

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12-04-2010, 03:40 AM
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I dunno, I never looked at it, but 10 assists in the final round of the playoffs seem very feasible to me. If the finals go to seven games and a player has a run? Doesn't look impossible at least.

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12-04-2010, 09:29 AM
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The second most unlikely record to be broken is 50 goals in 39 games.

There is one record tougher to break than that. I don't think any player is going to have his wife knocked out by a pane of glass twice.

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12-04-2010, 09:59 AM
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There is one record tougher to break than that. I don't think any player is going to have his wife knocked out by a pane of glass twice.
Good call, but twice? I only remember one.

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12-04-2010, 10:30 AM
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Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
The second most unlikely record to be broken is 50 goals in 39 games.

There is one record tougher to break than that. I don't think any player is going to have his wife knocked out by a pane of glass twice.
Twice? Okay Ulf did it in 1997-'98 once but when was the other time?

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Yeah but dude....didn't you know that with adjusted stats, Crosby is like right on Gretzky's and Lemieux's tail
haha, yeah the goofs of adjusted stats that never tell the entire story. I hear ya.

Comparing your peers at the time you played has always been the true way to tell how a player dominated IMO

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12-05-2010, 07:21 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Good call, but twice? I only remember one.
Yeah I think twice would break the record, right?

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12-05-2010, 07:41 PM
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EventHorizon
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Yeah I think twice would break the record, right?
Guess I had a few too many drinks the other day.

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12-08-2010, 04:01 PM
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Gretzky brothers points total: 2861
Gretzky brothers goal total: 895

Sedin brothers points total: 1180
Sedin brothers goal total: 363

Looks like that one is safe too.

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12-08-2010, 06:42 PM
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when we see the first Lebron type of player, most Hart trophies, albeit unlike, could fall.

Or, the day may come when they finalyl bring in a drastic rule change, like 4 on 4 or a larger net. then, and only then, are 99s statistical records in trouble.

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12-08-2010, 06:51 PM
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Kyle McMahon
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when we see the first Lebron type of player, most Hart trophies, albeit unlike, could fall.

Or, the day may come when they finalyl bring in a drastic rule change, like 4 on 4 or a larger net. then, and only then, are 99s statistical records in trouble.
Isn't this what Sidney Crosby was? Both players considered the next superstar of their sport by the time they were 15 years old, and both have pretty much lived up to the hype. And Lebron has certainly not dominated his sport at a Gretzky-like level; Michael Jordan is safe at the top for now.

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12-09-2010, 11:39 AM
  #22
shazariahl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RustE View Post
when we see the first Lebron type of player, most Hart trophies, albeit unlike, could fall.

Or, the day may come when they finalyl bring in a drastic rule change, like 4 on 4 or a larger net. then, and only then, are 99s statistical records in trouble.
I can't see someone getting 10 Hart trophies (Gretzky had 9, so 10 to beat him). As good as people like Crosby is, so far he has 1. He could easily win this year, but that's still only 2. AO has 2. Combined they don't even have half as many. As amazing as players like Lemieux were, he only won 3. Hasek won 2. We're talking some of the greatest players of all time, and they have less than half as many. 10 just seems impossible.

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