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Old
12-06-2010, 12:57 PM
  #26
Strummergas
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
People see the Peguins, Caps, Hawks, Kings etc. all doing well now. They went through tough times as well, especially the Hawks. Im not giving up on this team yet. It must be so hard for any coach to keep this team motivated right now. My bet is the isles hire a new coach when Streit comes back. It MUST be a coach that has patience with youngsters. Hate to say it but Kirk Muller might be the one. I hate him too but what happened was a long time ago. If he can right this ship, i'm sure most people will forget about it.
Yeah, and Dale Hunter and Darcy Tucker can be assistants.

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12-06-2010, 01:02 PM
  #27
Twine Seeking Missle
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
Won't help one bit? I dont know about that. I dont want to change the topic but the first overall pick would be a nice gift IF this season doesnt turn around. Most 1st picks aren't busts these days anyway so basically a top pick is almost like a Free Agent signing here.
No, it won't help. Here's why:

We have a ton of young guys... prospects that we are/were counting on to get us to the point of being contenders. Lets use the Blackhawks and Kings as an example. Those teams drafted good young talent, surrounded them with a few veterans and let them slowly acclimate themselves to the NHL game thus turning them into good/great players. NONE of our young guys are playing up to their 'hype' for lack of a better word. Maybe they just aren't that good? Or maybe they are being asked to do too much at such a young age. If the latter is correct, another top pick will not help us. You can't ask 18,19,20 year olds to carry NHL teams. Look how that worked out for Josh Bailey.

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12-06-2010, 01:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
I never said they didnt need veterans. What i meant was that any coach that comes in here has to be able to work with kids in their lineup. A lot of coaches only trust vets and I dont blame them. Totally agree with sprinkling in the right veterans. Anyone can say what they want, the Streit injury screwed everything up. Yes, one guy makes a difference, especially when he is your leader in every category. Other teams, but not many, could get away with losing their top Dman.

By the way, Detroit Lions are brutal. They have never won anything, EVER. Dont even compare us to them.
Again, what was Scott Gordon? The leaders in TOI/G for the Islanders forwards last year, in order:

John Tavares (19, 1st full NHL season)
Kyle Okposo (21, 2nd full NHL season)
Matt Moulson (26, 1st full NHL season)
Frans Nielsen (25, 2nd full NHL season)
Blake Comeau (23, 3rd full NHL season)
Josh Bailey (20, 2nd full NHL season)

Then we finally get to Richard Park and Trent Hunter. They are followed by Rob Schremp and Sean Bergenheim. That's 7 out of 10 of their top forwards 25 year old or younger. That's 8 out of 10 in their 3rd season or less. You want a coach that will "come in here and be able to work with kids in the lineup"? How is it even possible to do it more than Scott Gordon did? Do you want fetuses out there?

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12-06-2010, 01:05 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle View Post
No, it won't help. Here's why:

We have a ton of young guys... prospects that we are/were counting on to get us to the point of being contenders. Lets use the Blackhawks and Kings as an example. Those teams drafted good young talent, surrounded them with a few veterans and let them slowly acclimate themselves to the NHL game thus turning them into good/great players. NONE of our young guys are playing up to their 'hype' for lack of a better word. Maybe they just aren't that good? Or maybe they are being asked to do too much at such a young age. If the latter is correct, another top pick will not help us. You can't ask 18,19,20 year olds to carry NHL teams. Look how that worked out for Josh Bailey.
This.

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Old
12-06-2010, 01:05 PM
  #30
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Kirk muller cannot work for the isles unless he starts pkaying and is playing better then crosby. Its like roger clemens working for the mets.

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12-06-2010, 01:07 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by lacunacoil77 View Post
Kirk muller cannot work for the isles unless he starts pkaying and is playing better then crosby. Its like roger clemens working for the mets.
Or Bryan Trottier coaching the Rangers. Oh wait

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Old
12-06-2010, 01:49 PM
  #32
Yashin for President
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle View Post
No, it won't help. Here's why:

We have a ton of young guys... prospects that we are/were counting on to get us to the point of being contenders. Lets use the Blackhawks and Kings as an example. Those teams drafted good young talent, surrounded them with a few veterans and let them slowly acclimate themselves to the NHL game thus turning them into good/great players. NONE of our young guys are playing up to their 'hype' for lack of a better word. Maybe they just aren't that good? Or maybe they are being asked to do too much at such a young age. If the latter is correct, another top pick will not help us. You can't ask 18,19,20 year olds to carry NHL teams. Look how that worked out for Josh Bailey.
Carry? I never said they should carry a team, and the islanders have only picked in the top 3 of each draft one time in the past 4 years since 2006. Dont tell me a 1st overall wouldn't help. Stop the nonsense. Like I said before, IF the Isles dont turn it around this season, a 1st overall would help them. They could even trade the 1st overall for a star from another team. By the way, I was a fan of Gordon. I thought he had it right for this season until Streit went down.

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:12 PM
  #33
Twine Seeking Missle
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
Carry? I never said they should carry a team, and the islanders have only picked in the top 3 of each draft one time in the past 4 years since 2006. Dont tell me a 1st overall wouldn't help. Stop the nonsense. Like I said before, IF the Isles dont turn it around this season, a 1st overall would help them. They could even trade the 1st overall for a star from another team. By the way, I was a fan of Gordon. I thought he had it right for this season until Streit went down.
It's anything but nonsense. Ok... so another top pick will help the team win another 2 or 3 games. Excuse me while I jump for joy. And I didn't say that YOU said the young guys should have to carry the team. But it is what it is. Management has decided to have a team of ONLY young guys so yes, the young guys have to carry the team. That doesn't work and it never will.

And I guess we agree on one thing. I liked Gordon too. We all knew it wasn't his fault. Scotty Bowman couldn't win with this group.

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12-06-2010, 02:23 PM
  #34
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I don't even really know what to think any more. They're only into year 3 of the "rebuild" but they've already fired there coach and given up on the system they've tried to stress througout the orginization. Say what you will about Gordon but while he was behind the bench they may not have produced lots of wins but you really couldn't fault the effort on a night in night out basis. This team has too many AHL players on it, it's almost like a 180 from every other profesional sports team, other teams have players who make alot of money and can get away with things others can't because of contract or talent. With the Islanders however it seems like the less money you make the more likely you are to remain with the team to keep the payroll at the minimum. There are no repercussions other wise half this team would have been cut(or never signed). I really am starting to believe that once Wang got shut out of the lighthouse for good he's now taken this team, and out of spite to Nassau county he's going to completley just tear it down and strip it apart to the point that no one will be willing to buy the team and keep it in new york. Its like he's thinking "well if i can't have my wangtropolis then you can't keep the Islanders".

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:29 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
Won't help one bit? I dont know about that. I dont want to change the topic but the first overall pick would be a nice gift IF this season doesnt turn around. Most 1st picks aren't busts these days anyway so basically a top pick is almost like a Free Agent signing here.
But Twine is 100% right. What good is another 1st overall pick, if he has Jon Sim to work with on the Power Play.

Isn't it fair to assume that if Kyle, Josh & John had 2 or 3 veteran forwards capable of contributing 50 points, then the 3 kids would be even better then they are?

As it is Bailey has regressed to the point where he's in the minors. While Kyle certainly didn't have a bad year last year, he did not make the leap i think we all expected him to make. And John has gone through a few scoring slumps.

I say it often, but Crosby had Palffy, LeClaire & Ricci his rookie year. John has an old Doug Weight to rely on.

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:37 PM
  #36
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what was said? i dont have access to twitter at work

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:38 PM
  #37
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Could we trade the #1 pick for an above average veteran? Does a #1 pick carry that much weight in the NHL?

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:39 PM
  #38
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...........

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:47 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by enigmatic View Post
what was said? i dont have access to twitter at work
unnamed player said "It's like a country club in here." refering to the nonchalant attitude some players have towards the losing streak.

I just get the feeling that a lot of the players have quit on the organization. not so much quit on their teammates, or even the coaches, but quit on the organization. I can't think of a single person in that lockerroom who would resign here at the end of the season if they had other opportunities.

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Old
12-06-2010, 02:51 PM
  #40
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i brought up the idea of a walkout a few weeks ago.....can we still try and organize something?

given the fact that it does look like botta is not getting his credentials back--do you think he would get the word out on something like this--or even another blogger

lack of people at the game sends a message, but the one game people show up for there to be chaos would show even more IMO, not only to Wang, but the league. You can bet your A*s that a walkout (even if only 9-10 thousand people would create a stir around the hockey media--something wang would not like at all.

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Old
12-06-2010, 03:20 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
But Twine is 100% right. What good is another 1st overall pick, if he has Jon Sim to work with on the Power Play.

Isn't it fair to assume that if Kyle, Josh & John had 2 or 3 veteran forwards capable of contributing 50 points, then the 3 kids would be even better then they are?

As it is Bailey has regressed to the point where he's in the minors. While Kyle certainly didn't have a bad year last year, he did not make the leap i think we all expected him to make. And John has gone through a few scoring slumps.

I say it often, but Crosby had Palffy, LeClaire & Ricci his rookie year. John has an old Doug Weight to rely on.
You hit my thoughts exactly. I have been thinking of this in the context of a "what do we need to move forward in the summer" thread. In my opinion I think we need 2-3 guys this summer who are legit NHLers. Not guys who have played, or can play but guys who are capable of 50+ point production yearly. In an ideal world I think we need 2 top 9 forwards and a top 4 dman. Again, ideally one of the forwards would probably be coming in a trade and be a higher end player than most of this years FA crop. This summer is the time to take a few of the decent young chips and turn them into an NHLer (something like a package of comeau, petrov 2012 first and 2012 3rd). that package should be able to land a decent player.

We will have alot of solid young building blocks this summer but if we don't support and protect them (and Wang be willing to pay to do so) I fear this rebuild will be for naught.

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Old
12-07-2010, 09:56 AM
  #42
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the players will never take this team seriously if even the management/coaching doesn't take this team seriously

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Old
12-07-2010, 12:29 PM
  #43
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I think the players realize they are no match for opponents regardless of how hard they work. The organization clearly cares little. They haven't said ANYTHING, they have only replaced a good coach with a clearly intimidated unqualified interim with no plan/timeline communicated for a replacement.

There hasn't been any attempt to upgrade the personnel NOR an acknowledgement that "we believe the team can play better, can get better results"

The players care. They are playing for contracts, they have careers at stake, they have self-worth.

But would ANY PLAYER want to re-sign here? Would any sane agent advise that even for an extra year or an extra few dollars?

Country club is such a non-story compared to the toxicity around the franchise.

I typically despise the player who "anonymously" leaks stuff that belongs in the room but in this case, it's a desperate attempt at SOME KIND of action/re-action by the organization.

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Old
12-07-2010, 03:26 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
People see the Peguins, Caps, Hawks, Kings etc. all doing well now. They went through tough times as well, especially the Hawks.
FYI, the Hawks might be the most relevant example here since it took the death of their cheap-ass owner to right the ship. Things in Chicago turned around almost overnight once "Dollar" Bill Wirtz kicked the bucket, and I'm afraid something similar might apply here. With each year that passes, I become more convinced that the Isles will never ice a contender with Wang running the show.

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Old
12-07-2010, 04:17 PM
  #45
Yashin for President
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I think once the dust settles completely on the lighthouse issue, Wang will have a better idea of where his money is going. I will kind of give him a pass for not spending now with no new arena deal in place. But something has to happen soon, whether it is a scaled down version or Queens. Honestly, as a fan, I could give a crap about a new area. I just want to win.

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Old
12-07-2010, 04:23 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
I think once the dust settles completely on the lighthouse issue, Wang will have a better idea of where his money is going. I will kind of give him a pass for not spending now with no new arena deal in place. But something has to happen soon, whether it is a scaled down version or Queens. Honestly, as a fan, I could give a crap about a new area. I just want to win.
I don't understand this sentiment. You're giving him a free pass, why?

Is he giving you, the fan, a free pass by charging you AHL prices until he spends to actually ice an NHL product? Why is it he doesn't have to spend his money on NHL talent because of the arena situation, but you, the fans, have to spend your money on NHL prices for tickets?


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Old
12-07-2010, 04:45 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I don't understand this sentiment. You're giving him a free pass, why?

Is he giving you, the fan, a free pass by charging you AHL prices until he spends to actually ice an NHL product? Why is it he doesn't have to spend his money on NHL talent because of the arena situation, but you, the fans, have to spend your money on NHL prices for tickets?

Bingo.

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Old
12-07-2010, 05:52 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by nyisles View Post
FYI, the Hawks might be the most relevant example here since it took the death of their cheap-ass owner to right the ship. Things in Chicago turned around almost overnight once "Dollar" Bill Wirtz kicked the bucket, and I'm afraid something similar might apply here. With each year that passes, I become more convinced that the Isles will never ice a contender with Wang running the show.
This. It's scary how similar the situations are. I also agree. It starts from the top. Wang is an incompetent owner. We will never be more than mediocre with him at the helm.

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Old
12-07-2010, 06:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
Carry? I never said they should carry a team, and the islanders have only picked in the top 3 of each draft one time in the past 4 years since 2006. Dont tell me a 1st overall wouldn't help. Stop the nonsense. Like I said before, IF the Isles dont turn it around this season, a 1st overall would help them. They could even trade the 1st overall for a star from another team. By the way, I was a fan of Gordon. I thought he had it right for this season until Streit went down.
"IF"? They have a minor league talent. They are not going to magically turn it around.

Who ever they draft will decline talent wise in this culture of losing.


Last edited by Sammy2010*: 12-07-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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Old
12-07-2010, 09:57 PM
  #50
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Again, what was Scott Gordon? The leaders in TOI/G for the Islanders forwards last year, in order:

John Tavares (19, 1st full NHL season)
Kyle Okposo (21, 2nd full NHL season)
Matt Moulson (26, 1st full NHL season)
Frans Nielsen (25, 2nd full NHL season)
Blake Comeau (23, 3rd full NHL season)
Josh Bailey (20, 2nd full NHL season)

Then we finally get to Richard Park and Trent Hunter. They are followed by Rob Schremp and Sean Bergenheim. That's 7 out of 10 of their top forwards 25 year old or younger. That's 8 out of 10 in their 3rd season or less. You want a coach that will "come in here and be able to work with kids in the lineup"? How is it even possible to do it more than Scott Gordon did? Do you want fetuses out there?

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