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Old
12-04-2010, 11:30 PM
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Concerned about Simmonds

I'm not dumping on Simmonds but I 'm a little concerned about Wayne. He seems to have regressed in every aspect of the game and often looks like he's not even there on the ice. He doesn't even look interested in sticking up for himself or his teammates. When you are a young, raw kid with as much room to grow into his game as Wayne, if you are standing still you are regressing. He's not even standing still unfortunately. He's taken huge steps back.

This is in no way a skapegoat thread and I will admit that Wayne is one of my favorite players in hockey. This is intended to discuss and track what Simmonds needs to do to improve and why he's struggling. Do you think there is something we don't know about?

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12-04-2010, 11:59 PM
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Funny because Bob & Jim keep talking about how great he's played this period (3rd).

He's fine, he's still very young and learning to play with the big boys.

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12-05-2010, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Funny because Bob & Jim keep talking about how great he's played this period (3rd).

He's fine, he's still very young and learning to play with the big boys.
He played great after I posted this.

It's funny, last year I made a post about Matt Kemp of the Dodgers struggling on a baseball board and from that night out he had the third best offensive year in baseball. Let's hope I'm the charm.

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12-05-2010, 12:10 AM
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Good 3rd period from Wayne. but I get where you're coming from.

Dare I say Frolov helped stabilize that 3rd line more than we realized?

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12-05-2010, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Slippery Moses View Post
Good 3rd period from Wayne. but I get where you're coming from.

Dare I say Frolov helped stabilize that 3rd line more than we realized?
Blasphemy!!!!

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12-05-2010, 12:16 AM
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Poni getting back on Thursday is huge for the third line.

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12-05-2010, 12:29 AM
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I agree and recently made a post on this very subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
I didn't see any glaring turnovers or missed wide open nets last night. Sure, he's not putting up points, but I'd chalk it up to growing pains more than anything else.
Nothing in particular and I don't think Simmonds has been godawful as had previously been stated but I really think he is showing his natural role this year.
I am probably going to get some angered responses for this but he just doesn't seem to have the instincts of an offensive player. I find he has trouble finding the soft areas in the offensive zone, does not make good passes in the offensive zone. His physical tools are there, he has the skill, but seems to lack the hockey sense to put it all together offensively, IMO.

That being said he is valuable 3rd liner, strong skater, good hitter, solid first pass out of the zone and strong on the puck. I think he is prototypical 3rd liner and will be a valuable player for alot of years, but I do not see top 6 upside on a good team.

And before JT gets here with his even strength stats from last year, I am curious if he has some PP stats for Simmonds this year since it seems(at least lately) he is getting PP but he looks lost. That is part of what I am talking about. Most guys that don't normally get PP time when they do will want to get the puck and make something happen, but Simmonds looks like he is still playing his cycle and dump and chase game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser
He didn't fan on that play. They showed the replay and Weiss (who had a very good game for Florida) got his stick in there enough to prevent Simmonds from getting the shot off.
Yep, very good defensive play by Weiss, not much Simmonds could have done on that one.
However today he had a great game. He was playing with more confidence and looked like he wanted to get involved offensively. There was one play early in the first where he actually got the pass on the halfwall on the PP and went to the net, which is what good offensive players do. Now he got stripped by Datryuk yes, but at least he is making some attempts. Need to see more of that.

I also would not say he has "regressed in every way". He has been very solid defensively and makes maybe the best breakout passes off the wall on the team. Very dependable and rarely turns the puck over at the bluelines(very huge). If he continues that and the aggresion and hitting he showed tonight he is going to have a long career as a very good defensive forward. The problem/question is how high is his offensive potential. The skills are there, but is the awareness, I am not sure. Some positive signs tonight, but in general it hasn't been.

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12-05-2010, 12:37 AM
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I don't understand why people are suggesting trading Simmonds.. Thats ridiculous. He's played great for us the last two seasons and I know he's struggled a bit to start the year, but everyone goes through rough patches. Wayne Simmonds will be fine.

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12-05-2010, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
I don't understand why people are suggesting trading Simmonds.. Thats ridiculous. He's played great for us the last two seasons and I know he's struggled a bit to start the year, but everyone goes through rough patches. Wayne Simmonds will be fine.
Ah, who's suggesting that?

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12-05-2010, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
I don't understand why people are suggesting trading Simmonds.. Thats ridiculous. He's played great for us the last two seasons and I know he's struggled a bit to start the year, but everyone goes through rough patches. Wayne Simmonds will be fine.
As long as he stays on the third line. He will be fine. Asking him to play a top six role right now will set him up for failure. 2nd PP unit is okay too until Dean gets another legit top six forward.

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12-05-2010, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Ah, who's suggesting that?
Its just been thrown around in other threads.

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12-05-2010, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two out of three View Post
Its just been thrown around in other threads.
Well just to be clear I am not advocating trading Simmonds. Merely stating I do not think he has the offensive upside some people were hoping for. I am thinking he will be a consistant 15-20 goals and 35-45pts with one or two higher seasons while being an elite defensive forward. Which is a hugely valuable player btw. More valuable than the 50-60pt second line winger that is all offense.

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12-05-2010, 03:10 AM
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He just had the best period of his season - the 3rd one against the Wings. Thank goodness. Maybe he will get out of this funk he has been for the past month...wait...did someone say funk?



Last edited by Zad: 12-05-2010 at 04:31 PM.
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12-05-2010, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
He just had the best period of his career - the 3rd one against the Wings. Thank goodness. Maybe he will get out of this funk he has been for the past month...wait...did someone say funk?
I wouldn't go that far. He still doesn't use his line mates very well. Richardson sprung him for a good chance and Simmonds never got Osgood to move on his 2-on-1. When you show shot the whole way, an NHL goalie will make the save look easy and Osgood did.

It was a clear cut 2-on-1 and Simmonds didn't even try and get a better angle on Osgood before releasing his shot. He tried several moves when it was 1-on-3 and does nothing with a 2-on-1.

Simmonds is great as a 3rd line support player, but if he is counted on to score in a top 6 role, he will fail. Simmonds came alive once Richardson was put on the 2nd line, coincidence? Nope, Richardson was the catalyst for Simmonds revival.

Poni-Handzus-Simmonds will shine again for the Kings starting on Thursday.

Once Dean gets another top 6 forward the Kings can roll 4 lines again. Clifford-Richardson-Lewis could be a strong playoff 4th line. Speed from your 4th line in the playoffs can be huge.

Sturm-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis

Doughty-Mitchell
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene

Quick
Bernier


That puts some speed on all 4 lines and has a puck mover on each pair. I hope Martinez continues his strong play at both ends of the ice.

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12-05-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Sturm-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis

Doughty-Mitchell
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene

Quick
Bernier

This is good.

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Old
12-05-2010, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Poni getting back on Thursday is huge for the third line.

Or even the first line?

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12-05-2010, 12:08 PM
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I'd wondered what's the issue.

My guess it's a combination of a down year, no Frolov, and just how much bigger he's become! He does seem a bit slower...

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12-05-2010, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
I wouldn't go that far. He still doesn't use his line mates very well. Richardson sprung him for a good chance and Simmonds never got Osgood to move on his 2-on-1. When you show shot the whole way, an NHL goalie will make the save look easy and Osgood did..
I had the same thought watching them both break-in. The pass should have gone to Ritchie. Instead a bad angle shot that Ozzie easily handled.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Simmonds is great as a 3rd line support player, but if he is counted on to score in a top 6 role, he will fail. Simmonds came alive once Richardson was put on the 2nd line, coincidence? Nope, Richardson was the catalyst for Simmonds revival.

Poni-Handzus-Simmonds will shine again for the Kings starting on Thursday.
I hope you're right. But I havent seem the same Simmonds that I saw last season, and he hasnt even looked to mix it up nearly like he did last season. Last night, he skated right past the beginning of what could have been a scrum without even looking over, as if he couldn't care less. If we are going to have an effective 3rd line (one that puts up some numbers offensively) Simmer has to step-up his game. Poniboy will help, but even before his injury that line wasn't lightining the lamp up much. If we can get all three potting some goals, we can start winning like the beginning of the season, and judging by how tight the conference is, that is going to be necessary if we have any aspiration of playing in late April, much less May or June



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
That puts some speed on all 4 lines and has a puck mover on each pair. I hope Martinez continues his strong play at both ends of the ice.
As I said elsewhere, he is solid and playing very stud like. Other teams may want to start shopping at A-Mart.

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12-05-2010, 02:23 PM
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Maybe the rumors of him being a distraction in the offseason could prove to be true.

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12-05-2010, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
I'm not dumping on Simmonds but I 'm a little concerned about Wayne. He seems to have regressed in every aspect of the game and often looks like he's not even there on the ice. He doesn't even look interested in sticking up for himself or his teammates. When you are a young, raw kid with as much room to grow into his game as Wayne, if you are standing still you are regressing. He's not even standing still unfortunately. He's taken huge steps back.
... There was no doubt in my mind that he deserved to be on the top line before the season started. Instead, his ice time was inexplicably reduced and nearly every undeserving player in the organization got the chance to be there before he did, and even when he got the chance it was just for a couple games.

There's no question he's struggled out there - I don't think it's due to lack of effort or lack of caring, in fact it's completely the opposite as far as I'm concerned. I just think he's fallen into the same trap that many young players do ... he's pressing, and trying to do too much out there. I also feel that he'll pull out of this as the season goes along, and start to put numbers up on the board.

I think it's exaggeration to say that he's taken "huge steps back". He's a 22-year-old player who is trying to develop and round out his game from a basic up-and-down grinder winger to someone who can be taken seriously as a two-way threat. I still believe this man will be an All-Star player in two years, if he can play for a coach who demonstrates that he knows how to handle young players. I hope that this franchise does right by him. If he's dealt away, he will torment the Kings for a lot of years.

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12-05-2010, 03:43 PM
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Aren't there rumors about a knee problem? He seems to be skating with some kind of leg problem. Also, earlier in the year, he took a very hard hit to the ribs and at the same time had his hip jammed into the rail. Those definitely stung. Those are the kind of things that reduce a physical players effectiveness.

His offensive technical skills are a long term project. I'd be happy if he averages 15-18 goals a year over the next four or five years.

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12-05-2010, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... I think it's exaggeration to say that he's taken "huge steps back". He's a 22-year-old player who is trying to develop and round out his game from a basic up-and-down grinder winger to someone who can be taken seriously as a two-way threat. I still believe this man will be an All-Star player in two years, if he can play for a coach who demonstrates that he knows how to handle young players. I hope that this franchise does right by him. If he's dealt away, he will torment the Kings for a lot of years.
I think me saying he taken "huge step back" might be an exaggeration but he certainly has taken steps back. Maybe it's because he's pressing as you said to be an offensive player but in doing so he's not nearly as effective at what made him him valuable to our team. Like I said, for a guy like him, if he's not improving he's stepping back.

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12-05-2010, 04:30 PM
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I wouldn't go that far. He still doesn't use his line mates very well. Richardson sprung him for a good chance and Simmonds never got Osgood to move on his 2-on-1. When you show shot the whole way, an NHL goalie will make the save look easy and Osgood did.

It was a clear cut 2-on-1 and Simmonds didn't even try and get a better angle on Osgood before releasing his shot. He tried several moves when it was 1-on-3 and does nothing with a 2-on-1.

Simmonds is great as a 3rd line support player, but if he is counted on to score in a top 6 role, he will fail. Simmonds came alive once Richardson was put on the 2nd line, coincidence? Nope, Richardson was the catalyst for Simmonds revival.

Poni-Handzus-Simmonds will shine again for the Kings starting on Thursday.

Once Dean gets another top 6 forward the Kings can roll 4 lines again. Clifford-Richardson-Lewis could be a strong playoff 4th line. Speed from your 4th line in the playoffs can be huge.

Sturm-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Stoll-Brown
Poni-Handzus-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis

Doughty-Mitchell
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene

Quick
Bernier


That puts some speed on all 4 lines and has a puck mover on each pair. I hope Martinez continues his strong play at both ends of the ice.
ha ha, I wrote career. My bad, I meant season. I had his career in my head and was thinking about how far he has fallen from last season, if at all. Sorry about that.

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12-06-2010, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no name View Post
I'm not dumping on Simmonds but I 'm a little concerned about Wayne. He seems to have regressed in every aspect of the game and often looks like he's not even there on the ice. He doesn't even look interested in sticking up for himself or his teammates. When you are a young, raw kid with as much room to grow into his game as Wayne, if you are standing still you are regressing. He's not even standing still unfortunately. He's taken huge steps back.

This is in no way a skapegoat thread and I will admit that Wayne is one of my favorite players in hockey. This is intended to discuss and track what Simmonds needs to do to improve and why he's struggling. Do you think there is something we don't know about?
Well.... i'm thinking that too.
But i'm more concerned about our coaching staff. The style they coach pulls away any poise, explosive movement or real good position play.
It is just too simple to play on NHL level.
- In offense zone create a ball in front of the net, shoot the puck into the crowd and hope for deflections.
- In defense zone create the same ball in front of the net and hope to block shots.

This has nothing to do with hockey. Wayne is a huge victim of this system because he is fast, explosive and very poised. Same for Brown and Richardson.
This is one of the major reasons Brown isn't a good partner for Kopitar.
Kopitar learned the system and mis movement is like slow motion.... and that will be a big issue in his future. Best example is Frolov. He started as gifted fast winger and ended as slow motion wrap arounder without any creativity.

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12-06-2010, 02:07 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Well.... i'm thinking that too.
But i'm more concerned about our coaching staff. The style they coach pulls away any poise, explosive movement or real good position play.
It is just too simple to play on NHL level.
- In offense zone create a ball in front of the net, shoot the puck into the crowd and hope for deflections.
- In defense zone create the same ball in front of the net and hope to block shots.

This has nothing to do with hockey. Wayne is a huge victim of this system because he is fast, explosive and very poised. Same for Brown and Richardson.
This is one of the major reasons Brown isn't a good partner for Kopitar.
Kopitar learned the system and mis movement is like slow motion.... and that will be a big issue in his future. Best example is Frolov. He started as gifted fast winger and ended as slow motion wrap arounder without any creativity.
ummmm...no Fast??? No! Gifted ..yes...wrap a rounder..ALWAYS! I liked Fro, but please d not make it something he never was or will be.. Just ask Coach T for the Rags.

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