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Old
01-17-2011, 10:37 AM
  #901
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Originally Posted by Jungle Boy View Post
if he remains healthy
Irrelevant, as Elias has had a couple seasons cut short by injuries as well over the last few years, and as he'll be 35 next season I don't see that justifying the skill difference.

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01-17-2011, 10:51 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by greengiant91 View Post
Dustin Penner fits the mold, I think we should target him. The oilers must be listening to all offers
He is who I want. He is a durable, goal scoring, big left winger, signed to a reasonable contract. Also, the Oilers need defense/defensive prospects.

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01-17-2011, 11:36 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
He is who I want. He is a durable, goal scoring, big left winger, signed to a reasonable contract. Also, the Oilers need defense/defensive prospects.
And it would be nice to have a former player burn his team each time they play. As King fans we know all about this. Given his age, contract, position, size and skill set I think Penner is the obvious target.

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Old
01-17-2011, 11:44 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Although not necessarily a big name, what do you guys think of Alex Tanguay as a rental for the playoff run? He's been one of Calgary's more productive players with 32 points and has a low cap hit at $1.7M that expires at the end of the season.

Although he's not the most attractive option at first thought, he could add something that the Kings are missing in the lineup, a playmaking winger who can setup his linemates. The Kings are lacking in generating chances off the rush, but with good puck movement, they can increase those chances, and Tanguay can help in that area.

I also don't think it would cost much to acquire him. If they keep the lines intact as of now with some tinkering, the Kings could ice the following lineup:

Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Tanguay-Stoll-Brown
Sturm-Handzus-Simmonds
Clifford/Ponikarovsky-Richardson-Lewis/Westgarth

Gives the team some much needed depth up front for the playoffs. It also negates the probability of Westgarth seeing ice time.
A very Dean like move and I do recall the Kings' allegedly targeting him in previous seasons. Alex does have some Casper in him though.

I still dream of Robyn Regehr because the past 20 games have showed me that our primary issue is defense. Putting Robyn on our blue line would make us impenetrable.

Regarding Penner, how much of a factor is it that the Oilers have been bent over in just about every trade involving us? We got Greene and Stoll for a Visnovsky they lost. They were upset over us getting Williams in that three way with Sully. They may want a roster player (Simmonds), a prospect (Voynov) and a 1st for Penner and I don't believe Dean will ever do it.

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01-17-2011, 11:51 AM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
A very Dean like move and I do recall the Kings' allegedly targeting him in previous seasons. Alex does have some Casper in him though.

I still dream of Robyn Regehr because the past 20 games have showed me that our primary issue is defense. Putting Robyn on our blue line would make us impenetrable.

Regarding Penner, how much of a factor is it that the Oilers have been bent over in just about every trade involving us? We got Greene and Stoll for a Visnovsky they lost. They were upset over us getting Williams in that three way with Sully. They may want a roster player (Simmonds), a prospect (Voynov) and a 1st for Penner and I don't believe Dean will ever do it.
If thats what you're dreaming about(and I thought you liked blondes) I classify that as a nightmare. He is just that UGLY, not his play but his face!

I like Penner's skill set, and as for bending over the Oilers, third time's a charm!

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01-17-2011, 12:10 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
I like it. Low risk-high reward move. Tuangay brings "creativity" to either our 1st or 2nd line. Has speed, has the moves and has the shot.
Not enough D imho, players with more defensive skills and harder play rule in the playoffs.

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01-17-2011, 12:11 PM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zad View Post
A very Dean like move and I do recall the Kings' allegedly targeting him in previous seasons. Alex does have some Casper in him though.

I still dream of Robyn Regehr because the past 20 games have showed me that our primary issue is defense. Putting Robyn on our blue line would make us impenetrable.

Regarding Penner, how much of a factor is it that the Oilers have been bent over in just about every trade involving us? We got Greene and Stoll for a Visnovsky they lost. They were upset over us getting Williams in that three way with Sully. They may want a roster player (Simmonds), a prospect (Voynov) and a 1st for Penner and I don't believe Dean will ever do it.
If I had to move from LA to Edmonton I'd sulk too. You go from shorts and tshirts to North Face parkas and long underwear.

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01-17-2011, 03:33 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
He is who I want. He is a durable, goal scoring, big left winger, signed to a reasonable contract. Also, the Oilers need defense/defensive prospects.
Penner is the only Oiler forward with any physical size and strength...why do they trade him? Unless, of course, you are sending back younger size and strength which the Kings don't have. Edmonton does not need Voynov, Hickey, or Teubert...they are loaded with those players in their system already (Chorney, Plante, Peckham, Petry, et al). They'll pick top 3 this year and have a high 2nd round pick so they don't need more draft picks at the expense of losing one of their best players.

So what would you give them that they really NEED?

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01-17-2011, 03:53 PM
  #909
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The Bruins are rumored to be after former King Matt Moulson, although Moulson has said he wants to remain with the Islanders. Would be interesting to see how he performs on a better team with higher expectations. I think he could still be a productive player with the quality of centers the Bruins have. Maybe he'll get a french connection going with Patrice Bergeron.

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01-17-2011, 03:54 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Penner is the only Oiler forward with any physical size and strength...why do they trade him? Unless, of course, you are sending back younger size and strength which the Kings don't have. Edmonton does not need Voynov, Hickey, or Teubert...they are loaded with those players in their system already (Chorney, Plante, Peckham, Petry, et al). They'll pick top 3 this year and have a high 2nd round pick so they don't need more draft picks at the expense of losing one of their best players.

So what would you give them that they really NEED?
Edmonton likes to play a speed game because of the quality of their ice

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Old
01-17-2011, 03:58 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The Bruins are rumored to be after former King Matt Moulson, although Moulson has said he wants to remain with the Islanders. Would be interesting to see how he performs on a better team with higher expectations. I think he could still be a productive player with the quality of centers the Bruins have. Maybe he'll get a french connection going with Patrice Bergeron.
Did Lombardi give up on him too early? Or is it still too early to tell?

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01-17-2011, 04:08 PM
  #912
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Originally Posted by Zad View Post
Did Lombardi give up on him too early? Or is it still too early to tell?
It's not a matter of giving up to early.

Lombardi doesn't like player who are not playing up to their potential instantly.
Just take a look who left and who is till in Kings organisation.

Every GM who send players like Boyle, Moulson, Purcell, Quincey
away and keeps the Zeilers, Clunes, Wetsgarth's, Kings.....
would be fired instantly on other teams.

But this is the way Lombardi is....... these Clowns play up to their potential doesn't matter how low it is and play gritty i you wan to call it that. I preffer freakshow.

Talent handling is one of them major problems the Kings have.
He isn't able to judge how usefull a player is or could be.
And if he fails to get some talent he makes panic moves like Sturm or Pony.

All the stuff what's going on is a lot deeper than just the wrong coach.
It's a nice mix of misshandling talent, no team chemistry and game style.
Of course Murray as head coach isn't helping either.

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01-17-2011, 04:09 PM
  #913
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Bogosian is scratched against the Panthers. Seems like he's having a horrible season.

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Old
01-17-2011, 04:11 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Edmonton likes to play a speed game because of the quality of their ice
what of it? They are far too small as a team and they know it. And besides, the last time I checked, half of their games are played on the road where they get manhandled nightly.

Unless someone like Clifford and/or Simmonds go the other way, I suspect that there is no trade to be made.

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01-17-2011, 04:13 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
It's not a matter of giving up to early.

Lombardi doesn't like player who are not playing up to their potential instantly.
Just take a look who left and who is till in Kings organisation.

Every GM who send players like Boyle, Moulson, Purcell, Quincey
away and keeps the Zeilers, Clunes, Wetsgarth's, Kings.....
would be fired instantly on other teams.

But this is the way Lombardi is....... these Clowns play up to their potential doesn't matter how low it is and play gritty i you wan to call it that. I preffer freakshow.

Talent handling is one of them major problems the Kings have.
He isn't able to judge how usefull a player is or could be.
And if he fails to get some talent he makes panic moves like Sturm or Pony.

All the stuff what's going on is a lot deeper than just the wrong coach.
It's a nice mix of misshandling talent, no team chemistry and game style.
Of course Murray as head coach isn't helping either.
That's nice, but I was asking Ziggy for his response and not you so you could go on an anti-Lombardi rant.

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01-17-2011, 04:22 PM
  #916
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Per Bob McKenzie: If the NYI are trading Matt Moulson, as has been reported/rumored elsewhere, I am told it's not to Boston.

Ziggy, you false rumor spreader you

Oh ****, could he be coming here again? lol. I am sure he would love that. The team that punted him just fair caught him.

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Old
01-17-2011, 04:32 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
It's not a matter of giving up to early.

Lombardi doesn't like player who are not playing up to their potential instantly.
Just take a look who left and who is till in Kings organisation.

Every GM who send players like Boyle, Moulson, Purcell, Quincey
away and keeps the Zeilers, Clunes, Wetsgarth's, Kings.....
would be fired instantly on other teams.


But this is the way Lombardi is....... these Clowns play up to their potential doesn't matter how low it is and play gritty i you wan to call it that. I preffer freakshow.

Talent handling is one of them major problems the Kings have.
He isn't able to judge how usefull a player is or could be.
And if he fails to get some talent he makes panic moves like Sturm or Pony.

All the stuff what's going on is a lot deeper than just the wrong coach.
It's a nice mix of misshandling talent, no team chemistry and game style.
Of course Murray as head coach isn't helping either.
No they wouldnt. The only one that had done anything in that group was Quincey and he was traded to fill a hole. Boyle, Purcell, and Moulson were all given chances and failed.

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Old
01-17-2011, 04:59 PM
  #918
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No they wouldnt. The only one that had done anything in that group was Quincey and he was traded to fill a hole. Boyle, Purcell, and Moulson were all given chances and failed.
I gotta disagree with you somewhat kp.


Ive made my position clear on how I see our losing out on or moving along the players that people hold DL accountable for making a mistake on and they also include Mikie the Squid, Rome and Frolov along with Boyle, Purcell, Moulson etc.

All teams and all gms do these exact same things and from time to time get bitten in the tail for it, DL has just done this more frequently and has been proven wrong more often than not when he does in as far as weather or not the player(s) he release will become established NHL caliber players.

We can add several players that the Kings have given up like Jon Sim and Jared Smithson as close examples of the actions of another GM but in the end all GM's do the same thing from time to time.


Where Brian Boyle is concerned he was never given a legitimate chance as a King.

My position is in line with what Boyle said himself when he left and that is that he would be pulled aside, asked to change his game drastically (Scoring center to D back to scoring center to checking center even though he has never been a checking line center and then dealt when he takes more than one stretch of games to prove himself under his new and to him conditional position) and then after being asked and moved into the new position he was given very little if any instruction or direction on how to succeed with his new responsibilities.

Boyle was shanked by DL plain and simple in my opinion and he looks to be proving this notion to be correct but it is still too soon to tell just yet.

Matt Moulson was a scoring forward who had a nice two way game. That is what he was when we picked him up and what he was expected to be until things changed and he was told that he was going to be a 3rd/4rth line complimentary winger.

According to MM he didn't understand why but he began to "work on becoming the best two way forward that I could be". His scoring went down as it would with anyone who is told that they are going to become a defencive player but he managed to pick it up after a bit and keep his game going.

TM would give MM brief looks at the NHL and then send him down to the farm and here is the part that makes me critical of DL. MM said pretty much the same thing that Boyle would say and that is that there simply wasn't any direction. One minute they were playing well and were valued prospects and then they were told to play a different game then they have played throughout their time in hockey and when they didn't instantly become exceptional at their new positions they were pushed aside and dealt/allowed to walk.


All GM's do this with players from time to time but you rarely hear highly regarded prospect leave an organization saying the exact same thing regarding the amount of coaching/direction that they received.

DL has brought in an abundance of talent and in the forever of time that I have been a Kings fan I can't remember a time when we were so deep on D or in goal so I am willing to give him the benefit of a doubt where these players are concerned but, I won't go so far as to say that DL did the right thing by them or that they were incapable of becoming solid NHL players.

They are proving themselves right and proving DL wrong and that's fine. It happens.


Quincey shouldn't be used in these comparisons in my opinion simply because he was an established asset that DL used as part of a trade to bring in a player that was used to fill a position of need. He (KQ) wasn't dealt or allowed to walk due to a perceived inability to succeed in his part in my opinion.

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Old
01-17-2011, 05:06 PM
  #919
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Did Lombardi give up on him too early? Or is it still too early to tell?
Just saw your mention of Bob McKenzie's tweet... Buccigross from ESPN and other Boston reports have heard of the Moulson to Boston rumor, so who really knows where Moulson is headed, but what is certain is that the Isles are shopping him.

As for the Kings and their treatment of Moulson (and to a degree Purcell and Boyle), I see why the Kings moved on without those players at the time they did. Moulson I thought showed a willingness to go to the front of the net, but at times he was very unnoticeable and invisible out there, just a non-factor in figuring in to the play, but to his credit, Moulson is an opportunistic scorer, much in the same mold of Ryan Smyth.

Purcell had the same faults, and he was just way too soft and couldn't handle the physical checking nor the consistent effort expected out of him in a top six role. They tried with him and I don't fault the team from moving on. I always felt if Purcell figures into your top six, then your team certainly have depth issues.

And with Boyle, he wasn't ready to handle the physical duties of a checking center and the Kings had players ahead of him on the roster, there simply was no room for him. Plus at that time, Boyle still thought he could be a finesse forward much like he thought he was in high school and Boston College. He was also disappointing last season with the Rangers, but something finally clicked with him this season and he's found his fitting as a checking line center who can contribute offensively.

While some critics may accuse Terry Murray for not using young talent, I don't that he holds anything against young players as evidenced by his use of Simmonds and Clifford. I think he sets certain standards and expectations that he wants to see from these players, and at times, those expectations may be unreasonable for the type of players he is dealing with. This goes to show another one of Murray’s flaws in failing to adapt to the players he has and trying to force players to adapt to his style and system, regardless of their skills, strengths and weaknesses.

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01-17-2011, 05:18 PM
  #920
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Just saw your mention of Bob McKenzie's tweet... Buccigross from ESPN and other Boston reports have heard of the Moulson to Boston rumor, so who really knows where Moulson is headed, but what is certain is that the Isles are shopping him.

As for the Kings and their treatment of Moulson (and to a degree Purcell and Boyle), I see why the Kings moved on without those players at the time they did. Moulson I thought showed a willingness to go to the front of the net, but at times he was very unnoticeable and invisible out there, just a non-factor in figuring in to the play, but to his credit, Moulson is an opportunistic scorer, much in the same mold of Ryan Smyth.

Purcell had the same faults, and he was just way too soft and couldn't handle the physical checking nor the consistent effort expected out of him in a top six role. They tried with him and I don't fault the team from moving on. I always felt if Purcell figures into your top six, then your team certainly have depth issues.

And with Boyle, he wasn't ready to handle the physical duties of a checking center and the Kings had players ahead of him on the roster, there simply was no room for him. Plus at that time, Boyle still thought he could be a finesse forward much like he thought he was in high school and Boston College. He was also disappointing last season with the Rangers, but something finally clicked with him this season and he's found his fitting as a checking line center who can contribute offensively.

While some critics may accuse Terry Murray for not using young talent, I don't that he holds anything against young players as evidenced by his use of Simmonds and Clifford. I think he sets certain standards and expectations that he wants to see from these players, and at times, those expectations may be unreasonable for the type of players he is dealing with. This goes to show another one of Murray’s flaws in failing to adapt to the players he has and trying to force players to adapt to his style and system, regardless of their skills, strengths and weaknesses.
How much of forcing players to adapt to the style and system comes from the top though? Lombardi seems hell bent on building the Los Angeles Flyers, which is ironic considering it's been a while since the Flyers won a Cup. He wants that tough, physical team. His vision could work but no Cup Contender since 2000 has won without high end skill on its top 6 and elite top 2 on D, especially since the lockout. Would Boyle have been that missing second line center? Maybe. Would MM have been that first line left wing? Possibly. I can see where Murray may be to blame here, but the majority of this has to fall on Lombardi. He is the architect.

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01-17-2011, 05:18 PM
  #921
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I gotta disagree with you somewhat kp.


Ive made my position clear on how I see our losing out on or moving along the players that people hold DL accountable for making a mistake on and they also include Mikie the Squid, Rome and Frolov along with Boyle, Purcell, Moulson etc.

All teams and all gms do these exact same things and from time to time get bitten in the tail for it, DL has just done this more frequently and has been proven wrong more often than not when he does in as far as weather or not the player(s) he release will become established NHL caliber players.

We can add several players that the Kings have given up like Jon Sim and Jared Smithson as close examples of the actions of another GM but in the end all GM's do the same thing from time to time.


Where Brian Boyle is concerned he was never given a legitimate chance as a King.

My position is in line with what Boyle said himself when he left and that is that he would be pulled aside, asked to change his game drastically (Scoring center to D back to scoring center to checking center even though he has never been a checking line center and then dealt when he takes more than one stretch of games to prove himself under his new and to him conditional position) and then after being asked and moved into the new position he was given very little if any instruction or direction on how to succeed with his new responsibilities.

Boyle was shanked by DL plain and simple in my opinion and he looks to be proving this notion to be correct but it is still too soon to tell just yet.

Matt Moulson was a scoring forward who had a nice two way game. That is what he was when we picked him up and what he was expected to be until things changed and he was told that he was going to be a 3rd/4rth line complimentary winger.

According to MM he didn't understand why but he began to "work on becoming the best two way forward that I could be". His scoring went down as it would with anyone who is told that they are going to become a defencive player but he managed to pick it up after a bit and keep his game going.

TM would give MM brief looks at the NHL and then send him down to the farm and here is the part that makes me critical of DL. MM said pretty much the same thing that Boyle would say and that is that there simply wasn't any direction. One minute they were playing well and were valued prospects and then they were told to play a different game then they have played throughout their time in hockey and when they didn't instantly become exceptional at their new positions they were pushed aside and dealt/allowed to walk.


All GM's do this with players from time to time but you rarely hear highly regarded prospect leave an organization saying the exact same thing regarding the amount of coaching/direction that they received.

DL has brought in an abundance of talent and in the forever of time that I have been a Kings fan I can't remember a time when we were so deep on D or in goal so I am willing to give him the benefit of a doubt where these players are concerned but, I won't go so far as to say that DL did the right thing by them or that they were incapable of becoming solid NHL players.

They are proving themselves right and proving DL wrong and that's fine. It happens.


Quincey shouldn't be used in these comparisons in my opinion simply because he was an established asset that DL used as part of a trade to bring in a player that was used to fill a position of need. He (KQ) wasn't dealt or allowed to walk due to a perceived inability to succeed in his part in my opinion.
I definitely agree with you on Boyle. Moulson and Purcell are two players to me that just didnt fit here and are getting much more playing time on other teams. Moulson goes from the 3rd/4th line here to the top line on the Island and produced. Sometimes that happens and while it sucks it cant be said with a guarantee theyd be doing it here in the same situation.

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01-17-2011, 05:40 PM
  #922
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This team is missing a Star winger (prefer a LW'er) and a true 2nd line center.

Boyle, Purcell, and Moulson would not be the answers even if they were on this team.

I think DL trades/signs the LW'er and waits for Schenn/Loktionov to take the #2 Center position.

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Old
01-17-2011, 05:40 PM
  #923
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I agree only also in saying that it doesn't guarantee that he or anyone else wouldn't either.

I mean if what is alleged is true then maybe provided the same opportunity direction and support that they have received from their new teams that maybe they would have continued to develop and eventually excel as a King.

To me though in the end they aren't here and until I see us lose Moller and or Voynov or any other established and successful prospect under the same circumstances and they go and prove themselves on another team then I will continue to think that its just one of those things that are gonna happen under DL.

More often than under most other GM's but that's about it.

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01-17-2011, 06:44 PM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life View Post
This team is missing a Star winger (prefer a LW'er) and a true 2nd line center.

Boyle, Purcell, and Moulson would not be the answers even if they were on this team.

I think DL trades/signs the LW'er and waits for Schenn/Loktionov to take the #2 Center position.
can you name me one Kings center except Kopitar who scores more then Boyle ???
And can you name any LW on the KIngs roster who scores more than Moulson ???
Can you name me a Kings 3rd line player who scores more than Purcell ???

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01-17-2011, 06:46 PM
  #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
can you name me one Kings center except Kopitar who scores more then Boyle ???
And can you name any LW on the KIngs roster who scores more than Moulson ???
Can you name me a Kings 3rd line player who scores more than Purcell ???
No, but I can name you plenty that scored more than they did as Kings

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