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Old
03-14-2011, 01:52 PM
  #201
Zap Brannigan
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DREAM uses a ring and a cage as well.

Or used anyways

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03-14-2011, 02:00 PM
  #202
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DREAM started using a cage about a year ago to mixed fanfare. Typically the Japanese prefer using your basic boxing rings for fights (Sengoku, DREAM, K1, etc.)

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03-14-2011, 02:04 PM
  #203
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Shooto is likely gonna be bringing in the cage as well. Unified Rules as well

Hopefully its better constructed then the one DREAM used. That thing was tiny and Overeem almost flew out of it when he did a flying knee.

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03-14-2011, 02:20 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Zap Brannigan View Post
DREAM uses a ring and a cage as well.

Or used anyways
Maybe they meant in North America? Just was reading that sportsnet article the other day and it was mentioned.

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03-14-2011, 02:56 PM
  #205
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I don't really see how Dana White has any other choice than to keep the two separate. I said the samething when he bought Pride, and the samething when WWF bought WCW. Keep them separate and have a yearly PPV having one against the other. UFC can't afford to add more fighters to their company. At least with Strikeforce they have another channel in Showtime. Use that to your advantage while you can.

On a sidenote I see MFC is being forced to use a cage for their up coming event in Ontario. Will be the first organization to use both a ring and a cage. The cage is also a circle which will have a bit of a different look.
Yeah it would be nice if they kept it separate (and of course if they want have as you suggested a cross over PPV every now and then). But I do not see it lasting for very long. The Fight Show had a reporter I think from the LA Times. She said there is already some talk/rumours despite what the UFC says that they might finish out all the scheduled Strikeforce events and the Grand Prix tournament and then fold Strikeforce into the UFC.

You can be sure a lot of fighters will be sent packing. Some right away and then like they are doing with the WEC guys. Slowly weed them out after one fight if they lose.

As mentioned above Dream used a cage at least once. I prefer the cage personally but Dream's cage looked pretty lame I thought. It was too small and they made the entire cage (minus the mesh) completely white. For me it is was visually lame looking and just too white washed.

I almost wonder with the UFC fighting to get MMA legislated in Ontario. Then the MFC quickly swept in to beat them to the punch for the first MMA show in the province. If I know Dana White he probably took that personally as a challenge or offense (just going on his past behaviour) and it would not surprise me if he tries to put them out as well eventually. I know they filed some legal action against Bellator and are going after them (I think they claimed Bellator used their fighter contracts as a template for theirs or something like that).

It is a good comparison with the WWF. They built part of their empire / monopoly upon stealing all the other organizations stars and running against them head to head to try and put them out of business (or like Stampede Wrestling for example buy them out).

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03-14-2011, 03:06 PM
  #206
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Still would love to see Overeem in the UFC though, if not for even a single fight. I don't even follow MMA that much anymore except for the big fights but it would be interesting to see how the guy handled himself in the big time.

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03-14-2011, 03:09 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Yeah it would be nice if they kept it separate (and of course if they want have as you suggested a cross over PPV every now and then). But I do not see it lasting for very long. The Fight Show had a reporter I think from the LA Times. She said there is already some talk/rumours despite what the UFC says that they might finish out all the scheduled Strikeforce events and the Grand Prix tournament and then fold Strikeforce into the UFC.

You can be sure a lot of fighters will be sent packing. Some right away and then like they are doing with the WEC guys. Slowly weed them out after one fight if they lose.

As mentioned above Dream used a cage at least once. I prefer the cage personally but Dream's cage looked pretty lame I thought. It was too small and they made the entire cage (minus the mesh) completely white. For me it is was visually lame looking and just too white washed.

I almost wonder with the UFC fighting to get MMA legislated in Ontario. Then the MFC quickly swept in to beat them to the punch for the first MMA show in the province. If I know Dana White he probably took that personally as a challenge or offense (just going on his past behaviour) and it would not surprise me if he tries to put them out as well eventually. I know they filed some legal action against Bellator and are going after them (I think they claimed Bellator used their fighter contracts as a template for theirs or something like that).

It is a good comparison with the WWF. They built part of their empire / monopoly upon stealing all the other organizations stars and running against them head to head to try and put them out of business (or like Stampede Wrestling for example buy them out).
Well in all honesty, Strikeforce has a lot of guys that really shouldn't be with one of the biggest organizations in the world. The problem is if UFC absorbs everyone and then cuts a bunch of guys all that happens is another organization starts up and competes with UFC. They need to find a way so that they aren't giving up talent to other organizations.

Would be nice if UFC could somehow make MMA like Hockey or Baseball with minor leagues.

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03-14-2011, 03:18 PM
  #208
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White denies they are a monopoly...

This article just went up.

http://mmaweekly.com/ufc-officials-d...-fighter-union

“This isn’t a thing about competition, it’s about growing the sport.”

“All these guys that fight for Strikeforce now work for the biggest mixed martial arts organization in the world; nothing wrong with that.”


Yeah sure it is only all about growing the sport Dana. That is why he seemingly always publicly attacks any organization that has any sort of success or notoriety (ie - bragging you will put Elite XC or Affliction out of business was only for the health of the sport). He forgot to mention the part where he wants the UFC to be the sport. I am as big of a UFC fan (first and foremost though I am an MMA fan) as most people but not a fan of attacking the competition, putting them out of business or buying them all up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Well in all honesty, Strikeforce has a lot of guys that really shouldn't be with one of the biggest organizations in the world. The problem is if UFC absorbs everyone and then cuts a bunch of guys all that happens is another organization starts up and competes with UFC. They need to find a way so that they aren't giving up talent to other organizations.

Would be nice if UFC could somehow make MMA like Hockey or Baseball with minor leagues.
Who says they should not be with a big organization? I am not sure what you mean by that comment.

With Strikeforce they were not exactly some young upstart promotion. The promoter Scott Coker was promoting MMA shows probably close to a decade before the UFC was even in existence.

Well obviously White does not want what you suggest above. They had something like that with the WEC. Then they started by eliminating half the weight classes in that organization (all the ones that were the main weight classes in the UFC), then eventually folded the whole promotion into the UFC banner. They could have started a sort of farm system starting with the WEC if they had wanted that.


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03-14-2011, 03:22 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
This article just went up.

http://mmaweekly.com/ufc-officials-d...-fighter-union

“This isn’t a thing about competition, it’s about growing the sport.”

“All these guys that fight for Strikeforce now work for the biggest mixed martial arts organization in the world; nothing wrong with that.”


Yeah sure it is only all about growing the sport Dana. That is why he seemingly always publicly attacks any organization that has any sort of success or notoriety (ie - bragging you will put Elite XC or Affliction out of business was only for the health of the sport). He forgot to mention the part where he wants the UFC to be the sport. I am as big of a UFC fan (first and foremost though I am an MMA fan) as most people but not a fan of attacking the competition, putting them out of business or buying them all up.
As much as I don't like some of the things Dana says, I don't question him on business. If it weren't for him I don't think MMA is where it is today.

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03-14-2011, 03:31 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
As much as I don't like some of the things Dana says, I don't question him on business. If it weren't for him I don't think MMA is where it is today.
Well he definitely deserves credit for helping make MMA more popular for sure. But his actions in more recent years seem to suggest he is more interested in eliminating competition and dominating MMA. IMO if he was interested mainly in just growing the sport he would do co-promotions and have the UFC fighters fight top fighters from other companies and things like that. But he has always said he will never co-promote any show with anyone else.

Just curious do you follow the other promotions much?

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03-14-2011, 03:35 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Well he definitely deserves credit for helping make MMA more popular for sure. But his actions in more recent years seem to suggest he is more interested in eliminating competition and dominating MMA. IMO if he was interested mainly in just growing the sport he would do co-promotions and have the UFC fighters fight top fighters from other companies and things like that. But he has always said he will never co-promote any show with anyone else.

Just curious do you follow the other promotions much?
Strikeforce, MFC, TFC, or whatever else is in Edmonton. I don't really watch the ones in Japan, but still read up on them. Usually on mmajunkie reading most of their articles, so I'm somewhat aware to what is going on.

The co-promotion is tough. Heck the local boxing was tough enough, so I'd hate to see what the heck it would be like negotiating million dollar fights between organizations.

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03-14-2011, 03:38 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Strikeforce, MFC, TFC, or whatever else is in Edmonton. I don't really watch the ones in Japan, but still read up on them. Usually on mmajunkie reading most of their articles, so I'm somewhat aware to what is going on.

The co-promotion is tough. Heck the local boxing was tough enough, so I'd hate to see what the heck it would be like negotiating million dollar fights between organizations.
Just wondered. Because I can see if people do not follow the sport as a whole closely. Then they probably would not care or see anything negative in the buy outs and attempts to run other organizations out of business.

Strikeforce and Dream have shared fighters. Strikeforce co-promoted with Affliction, M-1 Global etc... It is not hard but IMO White just has no interest in helping out any other promotions (and in turn growing the sport as a whole) or sharing any spotlight with them. Strikeforce on the other hand seemed to be interested in growing the sport with their co-promotions and letting other organizations use their fighters and stuff like that.

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03-14-2011, 03:41 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
Just wondered. Because I can see if people do not follow the sport as a whole closely. Then they probably would not care or see anything negative in the buy outs and attempts to run other organizations out of business.

Strikeforce and Dream have shared fighters. Strikeforce co-promoted with M-1 Global etc... It is not hard but IMO White just has no interest in helping out any other promotions (and in turn growing the sport as a whole) or sharing any spotlight with them.
I don't blame him. You are the top dog you don't exactly want to throw a bone to your competition. There is nothing but hatred from MFC towards anyone that does anything MMA related in Edmonton, so I don't see why UFC would be any different.

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03-14-2011, 03:44 PM
  #214
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I don't blame him. You are the top dog you don't exactly want to throw a bone to your competition. There is nothing but hatred from MFC towards anyone that does anything MMA related in Edmonton, so I don't see why UFC would be any different.
No that is fine. But then please do not claim you are only trying to grow the sport. At least be honest that you are only trying to grow the UFC and have it dominate the sport and basically be the sport.

I watch the MFC shows but have not followed them attacking other local promotions (though I have seen where the guy who runs it much like White from time to time acts like an idiot and attacks some fighters publicly etc...). Not a big fan of that by anyone personally.

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03-14-2011, 03:47 PM
  #215
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No that is fine. But then please do not claim you are only trying to grow the sport. At least be honest that you are only trying to grow the UFC and have it dominate the sport and basically be the sport.

I watch the MFC shows but have not followed them attacking other promotions. Not a big fan of that by anyone personally.
Well he is trying to grow the sport, but by sport he really means taking UFC to the next level. Which when you think about it, it is growing the sport.

Most of the time I really don't read what the guys running the show really have to say, although I do listen to Dana after a UFC event as he usually talks about what is next.

Edit: As for Pavlech, he just seems to pop into my twitter or I run into something he says on sportsnet.

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03-14-2011, 04:08 PM
  #216
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Well he is trying to grow the sport, but by sport he really means taking UFC to the next level. Which when you think about it, it is growing the sport.

Most of the time I really don't read what the guys running the show really have to say, although I do listen to Dana after a UFC event as he usually talks about what is next.

Edit: As for Pavlech, he just seems to pop into my twitter or I run into something he says on sportsnet.
Yeah I totally disagree with that. What is healthy for the sport IMO is competition. Different places that fighters can go and make decent money. More options for the fans to follow etc... Where as threatening to run any real competition out of business and/or buying them up seems to be just self-serving at the expense of the sport at times.

I would ask what does the UFC really gain much by buying out Strikeforce besides eliminating the competition? I mean the UFC is supposed to already have all the best fighters in the world. So how does that make the sport better? A number of the fighters at Strikeforce are fighters the UFC let go in the past. The UFC will likely end up just giving some of the Strikeforce fighters pink slips before long.

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03-14-2011, 04:17 PM
  #217
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Yeah I totally disagree with that. What is healthy for the sport IMO is competition. Different places that fighters can go and make decent money. More options for the fans to follow etc... Where as threatening to run any real competition out of business and/or buying them up seems to be just self-serving at the expense of the sport at times.

I would ask what does the UFC really gain much by buying out Strikeforce besides eliminating the competition? I mean the UFC is supposed to already have all the best fighters in the world. So how does that make the sport better? A number of the fighters at Strikeforce are fighters the UFC let go in the past. The UFC will likely end up just giving some of the Strikeforce fighters pink slips before long.
It's just not the nature of sports. What big sports actually have competition in North America?

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03-14-2011, 04:42 PM
  #218
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It's just not the nature of sports. What big sports actually have competition in North America?
How does the acquisition of Strikeforce really grow the sport would be my question back to you? I see MMA as more of a global sport. It did not only start in one country or area and then slowly spread over decades or a hundred years around the globe. So I would include all countries in the sport not just North America.

Beyond that as big as Strikeforce is it is not like they were truly threatening the UFC or anything. Nearly everyone even people that never watch it know or have an idea what the UFC is. But do the casual or non-fans know what the heck a Strikeforce is or what the term MMA even means? Not in my experience. I mean the UFC is already a global juggernaut. But they are not satisfied with just that they want to be the only recognizable organization in MMA and dominate it and stamp out any competition that begins to start making a name for itself it would seem.

I mean back to the competition in North America does the Arena football League (and no I do not follow football or any other major sport besides hockey so I might be a bit ignorant here in my example) pose a serious threat in competition to the NFL? As far as I know the answer is no but according to wiki they average for most teams is 12-13,000 fans per game. So there is competition for the football dollar. I bet some football fans love the AFL and the more affordable ticket prices and having that option. I would guess the players that can not make the bigs (or are late bloomers or whatever) probably like having somewhere to go that pays them some decent money. To my knowledge the NFL does not actively try to buy up or run them or say the CFL out of business.

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03-14-2011, 04:49 PM
  #219
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How does the acquisition of Strikeforce really grow the sport would be my question back to you? I see MMA as more of a global sport. It did not only start in one country or area and then slowly spread over decades or a hundred years around the globe. So I would include all countries in the sport not just North America.

Beyond that as big as Strikeforce is it is not like they were truly threatening the UFC or anything. Nearly everyone even people that never watch it know or have an idea what the UFC is. But do the casual or non-fans know what the heck a Strikeforce is or what the term MMA even means? Not in my experience. I mean the UFC is already a global juggernaut. But they are not satisfied with just that they want to be the only recognizable organization in MMA and dominate it and stamp out any competition that begins to start making a name for itself it would seem.

I mean back to the competition in North America does the Arena football League (and no I do not follow football or any other major sport besides hockey so I might be a bit ignorant here in my example) pose a serious threat in competition to the NFL? As far as I know the answer is no but according to wiki they average for most teams is 12-13,000 fans per game. So there is competition for the football dollar. I bet some football fans love the AFL and the more affordable ticket prices and having that option. I would guess the players that can not make the bigs (or are late bloomers or whatever) probably like having somewhere to go that pays them some decent money. To my knowledge the NFL does not actively try to buy up or run them or say the CFL out of business.

My god that's a lot to read in one shot

I think it helps grow the sport because now UFC gains some better talent and allows them to have better shows.

Arena football doesn't pose any threat to the NFL. NFL doesn't try run the CFL out of business because the NFL has little intention of coming into all of Canada. That and the CFL gives the NFL a feeder league type of relationship, albeit a small one.

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03-14-2011, 04:59 PM
  #220
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Yeah I totally disagree with that. What is healthy for the sport IMO is competition. Different places that fighters can go and make decent money. More options for the fans to follow etc... Where as threatening to run any real competition out of business and/or buying them up seems to be just self-serving at the expense of the sport at times.

I would ask what does the UFC really gain much by buying out Strikeforce besides eliminating the competition? I mean the UFC is supposed to already have all the best fighters in the world. So how does that make the sport better? A number of the fighters at Strikeforce are fighters the UFC let go in the past. The UFC will likely end up just giving some of the Strikeforce fighters pink slips before long.
i disagree with you completely. Dana white has said since day one that the problems with boxing and its demise was the multiple orgs/promotions/promoters/title etc etc etc. Buying strikeforce and its other competition gives the fans what they want to see, they want to see the best fight the best. people can agrue p4p rankings and contenders etc but at the end of the day the only way is to fight. how do you grow an existing company? give the fans what they want. in MMA's case give them the figths they want to see.

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03-14-2011, 05:02 PM
  #221
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How does the acquisition of Strikeforce really grow the sport would be my question back to you? I see MMA as more of a global sport. It did not only start in one country or area and then slowly spread over decades or a hundred years around the globe. So I would include all countries in the sport not just North America.

Beyond that as big as Strikeforce is it is not like they were truly threatening the UFC or anything. Nearly everyone even people that never watch it know or have an idea what the UFC is. But do the casual or non-fans know what the heck a Strikeforce is or what the term MMA even means? Not in my experience. I mean the UFC is already a global juggernaut. But they are not satisfied with just that they want to be the only recognizable organization in MMA and dominate it and stamp out any competition that begins to start making a name for itself it would seem.

I mean back to the competition in North America does the Arena football League (and no I do not follow football or any other major sport besides hockey so I might be a bit ignorant here in my example) pose a serious threat in competition to the NFL? As far as I know the answer is no but according to wiki they average for most teams is 12-13,000 fans per game. So there is competition for the football dollar. I bet some football fans love the AFL and the more affordable ticket prices and having that option. I would guess the players that can not make the bigs (or are late bloomers or whatever) probably like having somewhere to go that pays them some decent money. To my knowledge the NFL does not actively try to buy up or run them or say the CFL out of business.
strikeforce has what the UFC needs more of, competition at HW, sure there are the diaz's moussasi's Hendo's Jacares etc but the UFC needs the HW draw. Overeem, Kharitonov, Barnett, Fedor, Werdum, Bigfoot etc Heavyweights draw ratings.

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03-15-2011, 09:35 AM
  #222
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strikeforce has what the UFC needs more of, competition at HW, sure there are the diaz's moussasi's Hendo's Jacares etc but the UFC needs the HW draw. Overeem, Kharitonov, Barnett, Fedor, Werdum, Bigfoot etc Heavyweights draw ratings.
Outside of Overeerm and Fedor are the others really anything special? I guess maybe Werdum now that he has a big win.

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03-16-2011, 01:15 AM
  #223
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Strikeforce and Showtime have a deal in place that takes them through 2014. It also says Showtime will continue to control the production end of the events. Something which has made previous UFC deals with NBC and HBO fall through (according to White in the past) as White wants 100% control including production, editing etc... But I guess this deal was already in place so they will live with it apparently.

http://mmaweekly.com/showtime-remain...ction-the-same

At the very least I am relieved that the same announcing team will be in place. I really like Joe Rogan. But all the same IMO Strikeforce has the best announcing team in the business with Mauro Ranallo, Stephen Quadros and Pat Miletich. Frank Shamrock is pretty decent too but I prefer the team I just mentioned as they do all the Challenger Strikeforce events together.

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03-16-2011, 01:43 AM
  #224
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Outside of Overeerm and Fedor are the others really anything special? I guess maybe Werdum now that he has a big win.
Kharitonov, Werdum, and Barnett are definately legit... Kharitonov is a guy i have wanted to see in the UFC for a long time, Solid chin, and heavy heavy hands... Last guy to beat Overeem in MMA as well.

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03-16-2011, 09:55 AM
  #225
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Strikeforce and Showtime have a deal in place that takes them through 2014. It also says Showtime will continue to control the production end of the events. Something which has made previous UFC deals with NBC and HBO fall through (according to White in the past) as White wants 100% control including production, editing etc... But I guess this deal was already in place so they will live with it apparently.

http://mmaweekly.com/showtime-remain...ction-the-same

At the very least I am relieved that the same announcing team will be in place. I really like Joe Rogan. But all the same IMO Strikeforce has the best announcing team in the business with Mauro Ranallo, Stephen Quadros and Pat Miletich. Frank Shamrock is pretty decent too but I prefer the team I just mentioned as they do all the Challenger Strikeforce events together.
I cant stand frank shamrock and his braces and even worse is on the CBS shows when they stick scott smith in there with his lazy eye and limited knowledge of the sport. the major sticking point with the UFC and the major networks was Dana told them it is Rogan and Goldberg and thats it, HBO wanted to use one of their boxing announcers and Dana was having zero part of it. i agree with him .

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