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Old
12-09-2010, 08:31 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
I calculated that if we move Brunette, Miettinen, Kobasew and Madden along with Backstrom and Barker, we would get close to 18 million in cap relief. That's a lot. Figuring in that we don't have a lot to fill out as rookies could fill in Brunette, Miettinen and Kobie with a journeyman goaltender like Theo and a rookie or a second year for Barker, we could really push for a player like Semin.
But the problem with the Wild is that we don't. We don't have the luxury because our rookies just aren't that good. Remember, only the year before, we had the worst prospect pool in the league (at least IMO).

EDIT: Hell, our top prospect was Colton Gillies and injured Tyler Cuma...

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12-09-2010, 08:47 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
So let's look at our team then. If we don't move any of those big contracts, we'll be looking like...

Forwards

Bouchard - Koivu - Havlat
Latendresse - _____ - _____
Clutterbuck - Cullen - O'Sullivan
Nystrom - _____ - _____

Here's my guess at forward prospects that could step into the NHL in the next couple years and where they'd end up:

Granlund - second line center
Wellman - second/third line winger
Almond - fourth line center
Palmer - fourth line center
Gillies - fourth line winger
Kassian - fourth line winger

Defense

Burns - Schultz
Zidlicky - _____
_____ - _____

And my guess on the defensive prospects:

Scandella - top four
Falk - bottom four
Spurgeon - 6/7
Cuma - bottom pairing

Goaltending

Backstrom
_____

Likely prospects to back him up:

Hackett
Kuemper
Endras

Assuming we made zero free agent signings, we could potentially roll:

Bouchard - Koivu - Havlat
Latendresse - Grandlund - Wellman
Clutterbuck - Cullen - O'Sullivan
Nystrom - Almond - Gillies
Kassian

Burns - Schultz
Zanon - Scandella
Falk - Cuma
Spurgeon

Backstrom
Endras/Hackett

Now, where would we need to upgrade to really be a strong team? On paper, I like it, although Wellman/O'Sullivan might not be a strong enough 2nd/3rd RW, and it depends on everyone else being healthy. I could see Scandella/Schultz swapping lines depending on how Scandy pans out. But I like the defense and goaltending overall.

This, of course, ignores any draft picks the next two years, which in theory should only make the team better.

For the "blow it up" guys, who would you move from the long-term list in order to upgrade at another position?
I'd just like to note that you're missing Zidlicky from your list here, so our top 4 is pretty much set unless someone gets traded in the off-season or this year.

That's just filling from in house options, but they'll have some money to play around with. They have $50M tied up for next year, but the cap is rumored to maybe move up to even $62ish range. That's $12M to find a legitimate scoring threat.

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Old
12-09-2010, 09:36 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
I'd just like to note that you're missing Zidlicky from your list here, so our top 4 is pretty much set unless someone gets traded in the off-season or this year.

That's just filling from in house options, but they'll have some money to play around with. They have $50M tied up for next year, but the cap is rumored to maybe move up to even $62ish range. That's $12M to find a legitimate scoring threat.
And PMB

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12-09-2010, 09:39 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
I'll put it in reverse. The only guy I would not trade is Koivu. The rest are all trade bait at the right price.
I would. I am not a fan of his new contract.

Whatever we do, it's going to take some time. This team desperately needs some proven 30-40 goal scorers. Teams now adays seem to be locking their top talent to long terms deals. Which means getting talented players through free agency will be difficult. So we'll probably have to improve through the draft.

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Old
12-09-2010, 10:49 AM
  #30
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Koivu would put up 90-points if he actually had some linemates. Sure, he's not Thorton, who can turn chumps into 30-goal scorers, but he can turn Miettinen into a 20-goal scorer.

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12-09-2010, 10:54 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Koivu would put up 90-points if he actually had some linemates. Sure, he's not Thorton, who can turn chumps into 30-goal scorers, but he can turn Miettinen into a 20-goal scorer.
Very true. I'm hoping Koivu helps Miettinen put up some big numbers so someone overpays for him at the deadline.

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12-09-2010, 11:56 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
I'd just like to note that you're missing Zidlicky from your list here, so our top 4 is pretty much set unless someone gets traded in the off-season or this year.

That's just filling from in house options, but they'll have some money to play around with. They have $50M tied up for next year, but the cap is rumored to maybe move up to even $62ish range. That's $12M to find a legitimate scoring threat.
Whoops, replace Zanon with Zidlicky in my scheme. That's what I meant (obviously to pair with Schultz).

Keep in mind we need some cap room for Burns.

And I don't think there's any team in the league that would trade for Backstrom unless we added a lot going their way. Don't think Leipold is too keen on stashing money in the minors, especially with attendance going down and already spent up to the cap.

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Old
12-09-2010, 12:23 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Koivu would put up 90-points if he actually had some linemates. Sure, he's not Thorton, who can turn chumps into 30-goal scorers, but he can turn Miettinen into a 20-goal scorer.
That may be true. But I don't think it's good business to pay a guy based on what he "could" do. Plus who knows how long it will take to get those top linemates.

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12-09-2010, 12:51 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Just moving Backstrom and Barker alone could save this team 10 million.
The main problem with the team is not money. It's little talent throughout the lineup. And I don't consider moving away maybe your best player is "saving" salary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNWILDFAN001 View Post
I would. I am not a fan of his new contract.
I hate his new deal too. But I still wouldn't trade him because the chances of replacing him through a trade are slim to none. Koivu is young enough and certainly good enough to be a big piece of a rebuilt team.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNWILDFAN001 View Post
I would. I am not a fan of his new contract.

Whatever we do, it's going to take some time. This team desperately needs some proven 30-40 goal scorers. Teams now adays seem to be locking their top talent to long terms deals. Which means getting talented players through free agency will be difficult. So we'll probably have to improve through the draft.
Which the Wild just did with the guy you want to get rid of.

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Old
12-09-2010, 03:53 PM
  #36
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Which the Wild just did with the guy you want to get rid of.
Only because of his new contract. If we had him for less, then I'd be happy.

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12-09-2010, 03:56 PM
  #37
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If you lock people up for a long time, it does costs money. It costs more when they can leave the next year and it costs more when they are your best player.

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12-09-2010, 03:57 PM
  #38
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it was more important to overpay koivu and lock him up than to lose him. I don't like that contract...it feels like we are trying win by playing nice and honest (i.e. not offering a ridiculous 12yr cap circumventing contract). But still, he is locked up and one of our best players. It had to be done.

Quote:
If you lock people up for a long time, it does costs money. It costs more when they can leave the next year and it costs more when they are your best player.
especially when the team isn't very good and has several question marks...

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:00 PM
  #39
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If everyone would sign for sunshine and daisies, I'd be happy.

Unfortunately, that's about as likely as me throwing thunderbolts out of me arse.

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12-09-2010, 08:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
The main problem with the team is not money. It's little talent throughout the lineup. And I don't consider moving away maybe your best player is "saving" salary.
Goaltenders are overrated. Niemi won a freaking Stanley Cup and no one wanted him in the off-season. Moving Backstrom would help because we are so budged up the cap right now, we are very limited.

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12-10-2010, 09:48 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MNWILDFAN001 View Post
That may be true. But I don't think it's good business to pay a guy based on what he "could" do. Plus who knows how long it will take to get those top linemates.
I disagree with that. You cannot have the luxury in this biz to pay for guys for what they 'can' do. You need to project in the future.

That why teams can have guys like Franzen or Suter on ridiculous good contracts, which allows them to spend money for other areas of weaknesses.

However, you have to be VERY careful...

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12-10-2010, 09:54 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Goaltenders are overrated. Niemi won a freaking Stanley Cup and no one wanted him in the off-season. Moving Backstrom would help because we are so budged up the cap right now, we are very limited.
I think goalies are just misunderstood.

I don't think its fair to see the recent success of teams who don't have a 6mil goaltender and suddenly think goaltenders aren't needed.

Yes, Flyers and Hawks went far without a star goalie, but look at their roster. How often do you think teams can have such a scary offense and defense at the same time?

Its all about money management. If you aren't going to spend 6 mil on a goaltender, you better make sure you use that extra money WISELY on two-three good forwards/defensemen.

Its a team sport. Never forget that.

EDIT: The Flyers and Hawks made up for a lack of a star goalie with a SCARY offense and defense. Some teams don't have that scary offense and defense so they try to make it up with a better goalie. Its all about balancing all the areas that make a team...

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12-10-2010, 10:46 AM
  #43
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You win in the playoffs by having a hot goaltender. Better goaltenders are more hot more often than worse goaltenders. But even mediocre goalies can have hot streaks.

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12-10-2010, 11:58 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
Goaltenders are overrated. Niemi won a freaking Stanley Cup and no one wanted him in the off-season. Moving Backstrom would help because we are so budged up the cap right now, we are very limited.
Goalies are overrated now, or just because of Niemi's fluke playoff run?

What exactly would the Wild do with the ~$4.5m of cap space that moving Backstrom would give (because we'd have to get another backup)?

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12-10-2010, 12:18 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Goalies are overrated now, or just because of Niemi's fluke playoff run?

What exactly would the Wild do with the ~$4.5m of cap space that moving Backstrom would give (because we'd have to get another backup)?
Sign that big-name, high-scoring FA that's just dying to come here, of course...

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12-10-2010, 12:28 PM
  #46
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Hey, Canucks fan here coming in peace. Hypothetically, what would you want for Schultz following this season? Salo is likely retiring and we have most of our forwards locked up. Ehrhoff will hopefully sign at around $4.5M leaving us with $2.1M of cap-space from Salo's contract alone, and if we get Schultz, probably Alberts will go too.

1st round pick sound fair? Also, if I could get a detailed scouting report on Schultz that would be good. I know he's a shutown d-man type but that's all I know.

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12-10-2010, 01:10 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Sign that big-name, high-scoring FA that's just dying to come here, of course...
So exactly why is it that Havlat came here?

We've been limited in the past two off seasons with how much money we've had to spend. We don't need a lot but maybe one elite forward at most.

We have too much 3rd/4th line depth right now playing on almost all of our lines and in our minors.

with Brunette, Miettinen, Kobasew, and Madden gone that clears the way for guys like Almond to come up.

Centers:
Koivu
Almond
Brodziak
Cullen

That isn't a bad group of centers. Cullen could possibly be upgraded as he is getting older. Not to mention Sheppard will eventually be back. Maybe.

Right Wing:
Havlat
Staubitz
Clutterbuck

This is the biggest need right now for the organization. And really there isn't a lot there in the market. Langenbrunner? Sullivan? Ryder?

Left Wing:
Latendresse
Bouchard
Nystrom

Wingers are what the Wild are needing.

Personally I would go after Gagne or Semin and hard. With the money that we can save from both Backstrom and Barkers contract (if we can move them) and then Brunette, Madden, Miettinen and Kobasew off the books, I think we can have a bit of a better team.

Pick up a guy like Eaves to have some depth on the right.

But

Gagne - Koivu - Granlund
Latendresse - Cullen - Havlat
Bouchard - Brodziak - Eaves
Nystrom - Almond/Sheppard - Clutterbuck

With Staubitz a scratch some nights that wouldn't be so bad. Add in O'Sullivan as depth instead of Eaves...even more money saved. I don't think Gagne is going to cost as much as Semin. Maybe 5-6 million.

And then for defense

Burns - Schultz
Zanon - Zidlicky
Falk - Scandella

Or even some cheap 6th, 7th guy

For goaltenders

Theodore
Khudobin/Harding

Now for costs with Backstrom, Barker, Brunette, Miettinen, Kobasew and Madden gone, we'll sit at a 41.834 million cap roughly. Add in Gagne for 6 million, 47...Theodore around 2-3 million, so back up to 50 million. O'Sullivan for 1.5 million, and then our rookies. I would say around 55 million and that gives us so more cap space to play around with.

As for goaltenders with fluke runs;

Khabibulin (never an elite goaltender, always just good)
Fleury (he runs hot and cold a LOT)
Roloson
Osgood

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Old
12-10-2010, 01:27 PM
  #48
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Backstrom will not be moved. End of story.

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12-10-2010, 01:30 PM
  #49
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I don't doubt that the numbers work out, but the plan seems a bit far-fetched, considering the increased cap space hinges on convincing Backstrom to agree to a trade, which doesn't seem too likely.

Also, is it really a great idea to give an injury proned Gagne, who's on the wrong side of 30, a contract worth $5-$6 per year? If this were the play, I'd rather just pay an extra $1-$2 for Semin, who is younger and better.

You have Bouchard rotting on the 3rd line with Brodziak and Eaves?

Why are you assuming Granlund is going to walk onto this team and slot right down onto the first line?

I'd rather have:

Player X - Koivu - Bouchard
Latendresse - Brodziak - Havlat
Clutterbuck - Cullen - O'Sullivan
Nystrom - Almond - Staubitz/Kassian

(none of those players (except POS, ~$1) are going add to next year's salary cap)

And our D is set, no additions are necessary, unless Barker is unloaded, and in that case, money is most likely saved anyway because he would/should be replaced by Scandella/Falk.

2011 Cap Space (assuming Barker is still here): $8.9
After POS & a BU goalie: ~$6
Cap is expected to rise, probably by $1-$3
2011 Cap Space: $7-$10

Unloading Barker is more than enough to create enough room to make an offer at a good scorer. And we get to keep our Vezina-nominated goalie.

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Old
12-10-2010, 01:43 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keslehr View Post
Hey, Canucks fan here coming in peace. Hypothetically, what would you want for Schultz following this season? Salo is likely retiring and we have most of our forwards locked up. Ehrhoff will hopefully sign at around $4.5M leaving us with $2.1M of cap-space from Salo's contract alone, and if we get Schultz, probably Alberts will go too.

1st round pick sound fair? Also, if I could get a detailed scouting report on Schultz that would be good. I know he's a shutown d-man type but that's all I know.
First off, you're probably the most coherent and friendly Canucks fan I've ever seen

I'm not sure on Schultz's value. My gut feeling is that a 1st rounder might be high, but then again he's signed for a few years and has been incredibly durable.

He plays a very safe game. Strong defense without being physical, great skating, rarely steps up into the play, decent passing but not the greatest hands, occasionally has an awesome goal but usually takes an okay low shot on net. He's usually reliable and can pair up with just about anybody.

It was rumored he was on the block last summer as Zanon had such a strong game and they signed Zidlicky to a longer deal, plus they were in the market for a bigger name defenseman (mostly Paul Martin). I'm not sure if he's still up though...he's definitely one of the more replaceable pieces on paper but it could very well be that when he's gone the wheels fall off completely. I could see him moved as a "shake up" trade though.

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