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Kessel Should Be Ashamed

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Old
12-09-2010, 01:40 PM
  #101
dirk41
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
3)Very much not true!
Maybe you are just a young kid and haven't felt growing up yet?
Longitudinal studies have shown that personality traits are very stable.

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12-09-2010, 01:40 PM
  #102
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Berger should be ashamed for getting paid for the things he writes.

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12-09-2010, 01:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
Average goals scored by age for the top 100 scorers:
This answers the question.

Also like I said before; for his position and style of play; 23,24 is the prime age for him. He's not a goalie or defencemen, he's a "sniper". When do you think Heatley was in his prime? Heatley had better scoring playing in Ottawa when he was 23/24 then he does now playing with Thornton and Marleau.

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12-09-2010, 01:41 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
Average goals scored by age for the top 100 scorers:
Sorry, but this random graph of the supposed "top 100 scorers" (who are they and as of when and what year?) does not say much.

Also, maybe you don't realize that as you get older you can contribute more to winning!

Sid had 40 goals and 100 points as a rookie with arguable better surrounding players than now. However, that team sucked and they had the 3rd overall selection the following year.

In the past few years, he has not significantly improved on those point totals (this year is different as of now) but the pens are a far better team and Sid has been instrumental to being a key piece in winning hockey games.

Not just having good stats for the stat junkies.....

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12-09-2010, 01:42 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Very much not true!
Maybe you are just a young kid and haven't felt growing up yet?
I am 32 and even do I have changed a lot, matured a bit one might say, between I was 22 to 32 my personality have remained the same.
From puberty up to around 19-20 I think I can say my personality have changed quite a lot.

Kessel is 23 and who he is now for bad and worse will be the one he is when he is 33.

And btw, when I was 23 I had a driver license, done my military service, lived on my own for 6 years, gotten an education and also started working. So 23 is not a kids age. You are a grown man who should take care off your self by that age.

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12-09-2010, 01:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by jtechkidbruin View Post
He was the main guy in the two goals that tied the game against boston and washington but that doesnt count- ha
Kess is 4mill dollar compliment player with high skill but needs other players and everybody knows that. Burke needs to move on Richards or Semin and next years team will look better. So what Burke overpaid for him but he has tremdous value since he has put 30 goals last years and will get 25-30 this year. Burke problem is komi, beach, or kaberle and trying to move them to free up cap space. I wont include Finger or lebda disasters. Burke's deal on komi is the disaster in not getting a stud forward to help kessel. Komi makes 6mill this year and plays 10minutes and is out of the league in a year- I would bash burke over that signing and leave kessel alone. kessel, dion, komi, kabs all make the same money but i would take kessel over those guys every day of the week.
Yeah, it all takes time of course,but we fans after 6 years no play-offs are getting crazie. Burke has had a medium level of success rate so far here. The way he corrects it though should be how he is judged. There is way to much resources fixed on the defense for sure.

Burke has more time with me,and Wilson is the one i have consistantly complained about,but it should not be a excuse for the players too. Zigomanis should be on the leafs,and i'm thinkin only Wilson is blocking the move.

Wilson should be skidded out of town fast for so many reasons. Burke gets full responsibility from me for not skiddin the coach that has some family tie to burke saving his job.

In fairness though Burke didn't hire Wilson,but being tied together through family shouldn't get him a free ride as we have seen either. Burke is not perfect,but the team not winning is more important than beefs with the coach/GM imo.

I just would like to see them winning,and they are 2-1 since Nonis told them its up to them because there is no plans to change anything at present. They would love to dump Komi at this point i'm thinkin. Maybe Burke should have taken prospects for Kabby to,but thats for later when we see if Kabby resigns first.

Kessel shouldn't be ashamed. He should be hungry!

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12-09-2010, 01:46 PM
  #107
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Kessel seems like a player who would thrive in a smaller market, where there's little attention to his exploits- or lack thereof. Nashville, for example, would be a great fit. Maybe a team like Florida, although I don't think Tallon will make the same mistake as his predecessors in hanging on to moody, mercurial talent.

Another option if he continues to struggle might be Anaheim. I don't know what the Leafs could expect back, but something centered around Kessel for Ryan could benefit both teams. What about Kessel and Beauchemin?

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12-09-2010, 01:50 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by zapy View Post
This answers the question.

Also like I said before; for his position and style of play; 23,24 is the prime age for him. He's not a goalie or defencemen, he's a "sniper". When do you think Heatley was in his prime? Heatley had better scoring playing in Ottawa when he was 23/24 then he does now playing with Thornton and Marleau.
Heatley's first year in Ottawa was a 24/25 year old.
Then 25/26 as his second year with 100+ points.

Age aside, Chemistry matters, and the way that line was rolling those two years in Ottawa is better than the league has seen in some time, and currently sees today.

You could argue Spezza / Alfie in those years were as good or better players to compliment his game than Thornton / Marleau as of today?

In those times they were also playing 8 games a season against a weak leafs team, , weak canadians, and weak bruins if I remember correctly? (might be wrong there)

Just sayin.......

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12-09-2010, 01:53 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
I am 32 and even do I have changed a lot, matured a bit one might say, between I was 22 to 32 my personality have remained the same.
From puberty up to around 19-20 I think I can say my personality have changed quite a lot.

Kessel is 23 and who he is now for bad and worse will be the one he is when he is 33.

And btw, when I was 23 I had a driver license, done my military service, lived on my own for 6 years, gotten an education and also started working. So 23 is not a kids age. You are a grown man who should take care off your self by that age.
Well done, as have many other 23 year olds.

Playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2010-2011 jussssstttttt might bring a bit more pressure than your accomplishments or anyone else's for that matter.


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12-09-2010, 01:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Kessel seems like a player who would thrive in a smaller market, where there's little attention to his exploits- or lack thereof. Nashville, for example, would be a great fit. Maybe a team like Florida, although I don't think Tallon will make the same mistake as his predecessors in hanging on to moody, mercurial talent.

Another option if he continues to struggle might be Anaheim. I don't know what the Leafs could expect back, but something centered around Kessel for Ryan could benefit both teams. What about Kessel and Beauchemin?
Why would Anaheim trade away Ryan who is a better player for Kessel?
Nashville was lurking around Kessel when he was at Boston so if we are lucky they perhaps think they are the ones who will finally see the productive and hard working Kessel.
I hope LA will get the Stanley fever come dead line and offer Brayden + for Kessel, but that is perhaps me being feverish?

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12-09-2010, 01:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Why would Anaheim trade away Ryan who is a better player for Kessel?
Nashville was lurking around Kessel when he was at Boston so if we are lucky they perhaps think they are the ones who will finally see the productive and hard working Kessel.
I hope LA will get the Stanley fever come dead line and offer Brayden + for Kessel, but that is perhaps me being feverish?
Brayden + Hickey + 2011 first

Anything less, wouldn't do it...... If Brayden's last name wasn't schenn, there wouldn't be that much excitement to have him here.

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12-09-2010, 01:56 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Well done, as have many other 23 year olds.

Playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2010-2011 jussssstttttt might bring a bit more pressure than your accomplishments or anyone else's for that matter.

We are talking about personalities and what one is to expect from a 23 year old. Not at what stage we make our living.

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12-09-2010, 01:56 PM
  #113
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I guess I've been watching a different Phil Kessel.

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12-09-2010, 01:57 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post

.....3)Very much not true!
Maybe you are just a young kid and haven't felt growing up yet?
I don't agree with your assertion. People largely don't change, in fact they tend to become even more set in their ways. And I'm no kid.

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12-09-2010, 01:58 PM
  #115
tpc77
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Originally Posted by zapy View Post
Kaberle is 32, and Iginla is 33 and many people feel that they are getting old.

23 is not a "kid", and to be honest I doubt he's going to get any better because he's at the prime age of most "snipers" in the NHL

For most hockey players the prime age is 28, but it's not like they have a significant jump from 23 to 28

Kessel is no longer concidered a 'kid', Toews is 22 and he's not treated like a 'kid' or how about Tavers, he is only 20, but he's matured pretty quickly.
I know people like to believe that there's all this "potential" but guys like Kessel (23), Bozak (24), Gunnarson (24) don't expect them to get much better.
I wish Kessel had the guys to play with that Toews did...... (Toews is still a better player either way) but it would definitely help.

Tavares: Can you imagine if he was having the year he is having now in TO??????

Dear god these boards would be blowing up calling him a bust and a useless 1st overall pick. It would be insanity!!!

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12-09-2010, 01:59 PM
  #116
dirk41
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Sorry, but this random graph of the supposed "top 100 scorers" (who are they and as of when and what year?) does not say much.

Also, maybe you don't realize that as you get older you can contribute more to winning!

Sid had 40 goals and 100 points as a rookie with arguable better surrounding players than now. However, that team sucked and they had the 3rd overall selection the following year.

In the past few years, he has not significantly improved on those point totals (this year is different as of now) but the pens are a far better team and Sid has been instrumental to being a key piece in winning hockey games.

Not just having good stats for the stat junkies.....
I can't find the article, but it's a graph of the top 100 goal scorers of all time. There are similar graphs out there regarding the top point scorers of all time. Hockey players peak earlier than people want to believe.

Yes, a player can improve in other ways as he ages . . . but has Kessel shown any sign that he is improving?

It's odd that you mention Crosby--he's now 23 (apparently Kessel is just a young kid yet Crosby is a mature hockey player). Anyway, the Penguins have added players like Malkin, Staal, and Letang to the line-up--which might have helped the Pens win.

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12-09-2010, 01:59 PM
  #117
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I don't agree with your assertion. People largely don't change, in fact they tend to become even more set in their ways. And I'm no kid.
I think the personality is set at age 2 or 3. Then it can change during puberty but you are correct, you are who you are for the large part of your life.

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12-09-2010, 02:00 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
We are talking about personalities and what one is to expect from a 23 year old. Not at what stage we make our living.
What? Maybe you misinterpeted?

I was just saying that you as a 23 year old with a license(which is done at 16 for most) and your job and living alone may be admirable by some, but being 23 and having the pressure of playing for the Leafs is a bit different than your circumstances.

He does need to be up his compete level, but 23 is not old and peaking at the prime for every single guy in the league.......

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12-09-2010, 02:02 PM
  #119
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I agree with Berger to an extent. But Kessl is the ONLY first line player on the team, for me to truly judge him he needs at least another first line player to work with him.

Kessel and potentially Kaberle are the only stars. Phaneuf is the third guy that can help. Kessel and the team plays better with Phaneuf. The teams looks for Kessel to shut him down, with Phaneuf it will be harder for them to do that.

Kessel with Phaneuf: 9 pts in 11 games, 7 goals and 2 GWG 0+/-
Kessel without Phaneuf: 7 pts in 17 games, 3 goals and 1 GWG +9

With a first line centre it would be very difficult to shut us down this easy which will open up space for Kessel. All Kessel needs is a crisp pass or 2 or even an extra second to get his lethal shot off.

I would LOVE to see Kessel with Richards. Get Phil another first line player then i will judge him.

But Berger is not that far off.

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12-09-2010, 02:02 PM
  #120
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Kessel is a horrible person for not being better. Shame on him!

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12-09-2010, 02:03 PM
  #121
tpc77
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
I think the personality is set at age 2 or 3. Then it can change during puberty but you are correct, you are who you are for the large part of your life.
Yes, I'm not saying it's doctor jekyl and mr. hyde differences.....

But you have to agree that even though personality traits may remain, as you emotionally and physically mature, you interpret and handle life events differently.

There is no doubt about that.......

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12-09-2010, 02:06 PM
  #122
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man I hate berger.....even more so when he's right
Pretty much. :/

He's right, and it's painful to admit because Berger's a ******.

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12-09-2010, 02:06 PM
  #123
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I can sum it up quite succinctly for you..

The ONLY thing that Kessel is good for is scoring goals..

Therefore when he isn't scoring goals he is good for NOTHING.

Not everyone is able to recognize this. Howard Berger seems to have hit the nail right on the head


Thats just bias for whatever reason it is you hate 30-40 goal scorers with defensive liability issues. You should in a fair world state that kessel though the same as many of the leagues other top snipers deserves your wrath more so than the others that are identical defensive liabilities.

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12-09-2010, 02:07 PM
  #124
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Berger comments are totally unjustified. Firstly comparing him to a few games last season when he came into the line-up is an unfair sample size. This is the NHL and one guy does not carry a team anymore especially a guy who is a finisher and needs a strong supporting cast to shine. Does he have some more to give, ya possible but i really dont think Kessel is the reason this team looks the way they do out on the ice. The problem unforunately rests primarily with Burke. This is not a Pewee hockey team were the players are who they are, they are paid money and there are many players competing for the small amount of jobs and sallary space. Of course its not easy to always pick the correct guys, but its obvious that this team is not built functionally correct at all. In fact there maybe only 5 or 6 forwards on this team that you could call realistic NHL hockey players. The D is obviosuly a worse problem because they occupy the salary and barely execute a rush. You really have to have some major trades to shake up this roster, because its not working.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:07 PM
  #125
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More importantly, why was Berger wearing an Atlanta Flames hat and jacket when he was interviewing Phaneuf today?

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