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Old
12-09-2010, 02:22 PM
  #126
johnny_rudeboy
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Originally Posted by tpc77 View Post
Yes, I'm not saying it's doctor jekyl and mr. hyde differences.....

But you have to agree that even though personality traits may remain, as you emotionally and physically mature, you interpret and handle life events differently.

There is no doubt about that.......
Sure, you can learn to handle the tools you are given once you mature. But the character flaws (that basically is Kessels true character) that he showed during his draft namely hinking he is better then he is (ok, normal for any kid that age), not wanting to work out (alarm bells ringing for any one wanting an athlete), and his reputation of not getting along with team mates (even more alarm bells ringing for any one looking for an athlete in a team sport).
One of the incidents regarding Kessel in Boston was his dislike for working out, something his older team mates pointed out to him but he still would not work out. Just to take one example. If a kid at age 18 is not interested in being the best he can be then he wont be interested at age 23 or 33 either. Simple as that.

And your dig at me at your previous post when I gave you an example of things I had already done BEFORE the age of 23, and most of my friend with me, was a response to your post about that I must be a kid my self for questioning you in your belief that 23 is a kids age.

To clarify. You mature once you get older but the personality in most cases stay the same unless something critical happens.

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12-09-2010, 02:28 PM
  #127
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I didn't like the Kessel trade at the time, either, but it's not hard to see why Brian Burke went ahead with it.

The fact is, you're lucky to draft a player with Kessel's talent and potential, and whether you call him a "kid" or a "scallywag" or a "whippersnapper" is irrelevant - he's young, and he can still improve his all-around game, even if it's reasonable to believe he will never become a defensive stalwart. Brian added several big acquisitions to the blueline and most analysts around the hockey world didn't peg us to hit rock-bottom of the Eastern Conference. It was a gamble, but it wasn't one made entirely without substance. As it just so happened, however, the odds were miscalculated, and we appear to be heading towards the worst-case scenario; two very high picks for an established young talent.

With that being said, can we still build a winner around Phil Kessel? I certainly think that's possible, and since he's already blue and white property, we might as well see what Brian Burke can do to insulate our young sniper with better talent. If he can do so, and if he can in fact build a winner, then mourning the loss of two or three draft picks will become much easier to bear.

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12-09-2010, 02:40 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by The Management View Post
I didn't like the Kessel trade at the time, either, but it's not hard to see why Brian Burke went ahead with it.

The fact is, you're lucky to draft a player with Kessel's talent and potential, and whether you call him a "kid" or a "scallywag" or a "whippersnapper" is irrelevant - he's young, and he can still improve his all-around game, even if it's reasonable to believe he will never become a defensive stalwart. Brian added several big acquisitions to the blueline and most analysts around the hockey world didn't peg us to hit rock-bottom of the Eastern Conference. It was a gamble, but it wasn't one made entirely without substance. As it just so happened, however, the odds were miscalculated, and we appear to be heading towards the worst-case scenario; two very high picks for an established young talent.

With that being said, can we still build a winner around Phil Kessel? I certainly think that's possible, and since he's already blue and white property, we might as well see what Brian Burke can do to insulate our young sniper with better talent. If he can do so, and if he can in fact build a winner, then mourning the loss of two or three draft picks will become much easier to bear.
I think the odds for us being a play off team where pretty high back when he made the trade. And the ones making the odds base this on more then just opinions, they analyse all the teams and more importantly, they put their money where their mouth is.

And having said that, I think it is fairly fair to say he made the wrong deal at that the wrong time.

And no, you dont build anything around Phil. Had that been the case he would have been Bostons offensive dynamo now and some one else, not as important would have been moved out instead to fit the squad under the salary cap.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:45 PM
  #129
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First attempt ever.
His cross eyes led me to believe this is all he sees and thinks.
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Old
12-09-2010, 02:47 PM
  #130
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Canucks? I hardly think so....Burke won 1 playoff series in Vancouver in what, 5 years? Gimme a break...Now you want to give him credit for the Canucks current roster? Damn...talk about trying to grasp at straws...why because he drafted the Sedins? It doesn't take a genius to draft in the top 5....they are all laid out for you by the scouting bureaus...A monkey could step up to the podium and select the Sedins. A freakin monkey.

Burke fans....hilarious.
Burke had to swing trades in order to draft both Sedin's in the top-3. You think that's easy? How many times have top-5 draft picks been traded in recent history, let alone for the price that Burke paid?

Also, he is responsible for drafting Kesler, Bieska and Edler, and he signed Burrows as an undrafted FA. In addition, he drafted Allen and Auld, the two main pieces traded for Luongo.

Whether you agree with the Kessel trade or not, it's hard to ignore the work he did in Vancouver. Sure, they didn't go very far in the playoffs when he was there, but they had a good team. People like to criticize his inability to find a goalie for Vancouver, but Cloutier was very good in his time with the Canucks. He set and still holds many of the Vancouver goalie records.

And It's not like they have gone on deep playoff runs under Nonis or Gillis, and that's with the Sedin's, Luongo and Kesler in their prime.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:49 PM
  #131
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Berger should be ashamed of his mustache.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:52 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by BobbyFischer View Post
I know I know it's been said a million times but, signing Cammalleri to a contract instead of dealing our future away would have been a genius move, Cammy has the skills AND the character and attitude it takes to win.

AND Cammy would still be relatively young by the time our 1st rounders developed (He's only 27).
Cammy does not have the character of a winner, one of my friend's dad had a chance last year to hear Wilson speak at a function, and that question was asked to him, why not Cammy? to paraphrase wilson said the guy is an Ass-hole, and not good in the lockeroom. that coming from wilson,

even still i'd take cammy over kessel + the picks in hindsight

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12-09-2010, 02:55 PM
  #133
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Tyler Bozak is by far the softest player on this team. Working hard doesn't mean you're not soft. He gets pushed off the puck more than anyone I've seen.
Wow you are dumb.

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Old
12-09-2010, 02:55 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SOBO View Post
Cammy does not have the character of a winner, one of my friend's dad had a chance last year to hear Wilson speak at a function, and that question was asked to him, why not Cammy? to paraphrase wilson said the guy is an Ass-hole, and not good in the lockeroom. that coming from wilson,

even still i'd take cammy over kessel + the picks in hindsight
How many times does it need to be said that it takes two parties to sign a contract. Marian Hossa would look great in blue and white, too.

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Old
12-09-2010, 03:02 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
I think the odds for us being a play off team where pretty high back when he made the trade. And the ones making the odds base this on more then just opinions, they analyse all the teams and more importantly, they put their money where their mouth is.

And having said that, I think it is fairly fair to say he made the wrong deal at that the wrong time.

And no, you dont build anything around Phil. Had that been the case he would have been Bostons offensive dynamo now and some one else, not as important would have been moved out instead to fit the squad under the salary cap.
And how well did Boston's offense fair after they traded Kessel? They couldn't put the puck in the net to save their lives.

They were offensively inept. Fortunately for the Bruins, they don't rely heavily on putting up big goal totals anyway; they have solid two-way guys in abundance (Bergeron, Krejci), solid goaltending (Thomas/Rask), and an arguably shallow but certainly top-heavy blueline (Chara). Boston wasn't "built" to be "built" around Phil Kessel, but you can still make a case that he was the biggest piece of their offense, right up there with Marc Savard. Even now, they're lucky they picked up Horton and Lucic is finally heating up.

I don't know if we can build a team around a one-dimensional goal-scorer on the wing.

Can Edmonton build around Taylor Hall someday? Kid is one heck of a player, but he's not that great in his own zone, either.

I think the answer can be "yes" - you can build around those guys. It just depends on what you build around them with. It's harder than having a prolific young two-way center like Jonathan Toews, but I'm not sure it's out of the question entirely.

Otherwise, I agree with the timing, and that was big issue with the trade for me personally. We had just drafted Luke Schenn, and saw an impressive rookie season out of the kid; the spoils of a solid, high-end draft pick. Yet we went out, and traded two picks which we also knew could be quite high for a player that would come at a much larger dollar figure. I didn't have a ton of faith that the addition of Mike Komisarek would do much to improve the team, either.

I just think we should give Burke a little more time before booting him out the door. Because let's face it, and Kessel is here to stay.

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12-09-2010, 03:45 PM
  #136
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If it's any consolation, I think Kessel will probably score today.


It's weird how a player can regress in less than a month. He was working hard earlier in the season, even getting those dirty goals and going to the net. Now that effort early is just not there. He looked great last season, and looked even better in training camp and the begining of the season. Now he just looks terrible.

Maybe he's injured, but if not, he's has to step it up, and earn his paycheck. If I was playing hockey and making 5.4 million a year in the NHL, let alone on the Toronto Maple Leafs, I'd atleast put in a consistent effort out there. Scoring goals isn't easy, and slumps can and will happen, but atleast put in the effort night in and night out. I haven't seen that from kessel since the begining of the season where he was going to the dirty areas to score.

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12-09-2010, 03:52 PM
  #137
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We knew when he was in Boston he wasn't a hard worker.

We got what we paid for.

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12-09-2010, 03:59 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Bozak is nowhere near as soft as Kessel. He works hard down low and forechecks hard. Really poor answer.
To be honest, I haven't seen Bozak work that hard this season. It's not like he's getting tons of chances and is snake-bitten.

He's been out to lunch most games and is not working for his chances like he did last year.

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12-09-2010, 04:03 PM
  #139
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If it's any consolation, I think Kessel will probably score today.
Thank goodness.

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12-09-2010, 04:05 PM
  #140
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We knew when he was in Boston he wasn't a hard worker.

We got what we paid for.
Did we?

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12-09-2010, 04:05 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Cool Beans Man View Post
To be honest, I haven't seen Bozak work that hard this season. It's not like he's getting tons of chances and is snake-bitten.

He's been out to lunch most games and is not working for his chances like he did last year.
Completely agree. When he's on the top line it seems like he really doesn't take advantage of it. When he gets demoted, his high gear may or may not kick in. However, he gets pushed off the puck very easily.

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:21 PM
  #142
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First attempt ever.
His cross eyes led me to believe this is all he sees and thinks.
Thats just hilarious!

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12-09-2010, 04:54 PM
  #143
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kessel = turkoglu

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12-09-2010, 04:56 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by The Management View Post
I didn't like the Kessel trade at the time, either, but it's not hard to see why Brian Burke went ahead with it.

The fact is, you're lucky to draft a player with Kessel's talent and potential, and whether you call him a "kid" or a "scallywag" or a "whippersnapper" is irrelevant - he's young, and he can still improve his all-around game, even if it's reasonable to believe he will never become a defensive stalwart. Brian added several big acquisitions to the blueline and most analysts around the hockey world didn't peg us to hit rock-bottom of the Eastern Conference. It was a gamble, but it wasn't one made entirely without substance. As it just so happened, however, the odds were miscalculated, and we appear to be heading towards the worst-case scenario; two very high picks for an established young talent.

With that being said, can we still build a winner around Phil Kessel? I certainly think that's possible, and since he's already blue and white property, we might as well see what Brian Burke can do to insulate our young sniper with better talent. If he can do so, and if he can in fact build a winner, then mourning the loss of two or three draft picks will become much easier to bear.
It's discouraging that Kessel is not improving at all and the thing he is good at is drying up.

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Old
12-09-2010, 04:59 PM
  #145
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This is the kind of player Kessel is, He'll score in bunches and he takes lots of leisurely skates for his enjoyment. The best thing to do is surround him with players that...errr.....compliment his style.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:00 PM
  #146
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The trade is done and over with. No doubt the trade was bad.

Kessel should show a little bit of passion playing for the Leafs, I can see why Boston was ready to trade a guy that by the scouts was like a Crosby player (don't know who the scouts were, or if they still have a job) but he should live up to his billing.

Kessel needs to stop being selfish, and pass the puck, if he knows that puck isn't going to go in from the place he is at, its that simple. Agreed, that he is the most talented player in a leafs jersey right now (of the forwards). He will probably transform into a game breaker we were looking for but as of now... I don't see him as a game breaker. He is invisible on the score sheet and on the ice for now.

This trade is going to be talked to death for the remaining of Seguin, Kessel and the 2nd first rounders life.

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12-09-2010, 05:11 PM
  #147
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The trade is done and over with. No doubt the trade was bad.

Kessel should show a little bit of passion playing for the Leafs, I can see why Boston was ready to trade a guy that by the scouts was like a Crosby player (don't know who the scouts were, or if they still have a job) but he should live up to his billing.
Boston didn't want to trade Kessel.

Seems like my job around here is to remind everyone what actually happened.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:11 PM
  #148
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this happened last year, Kessel is a streaky scorer and will find his game again.

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12-09-2010, 05:18 PM
  #149
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Boston didn't want to trade Kessel.

Seems like my job around here is to remind everyone what actually happened.
They didnīt? Why did they trade him then? Why not trade away a lesser player to make cap room for the great Kessel if they saw him as part of their future? They resigned Lucic after all. I mean, if a player is so great at people think Kessel is then you pay that extra to sign them. Just like Burke did with Kessel, or Komisarek etc.

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Old
12-09-2010, 05:22 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Boston didn't want to trade Kessel.

Seems like my job around here is to remind everyone what actually happened.
Who did the B's want to trade? Be serious, they were laughing all the way to the draft table at Burkie...they knew what they had, and were glad when he was gone...

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