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Old
12-10-2010, 04:43 PM
  #26
BamBam
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more matt k puhlease

obviously.
if nothing else.
junkie josh needs to pay more attention.

mebbe watch more actual minny games.
mebbe watch more actual other nhl games.
mebbe swig some ritalin instead of the red bull.

#1 enforcement. yes. wild need more toughness. but no, they don't need to find it. they have "it". and lots. "it" is called matt kassian. not only can he punch he can play. minny needs to play him way more.
#2 lack of talented youth. no. they have a fine d stable. problem is the wild lost talented veterans. aka. elite class gaborik to free agency with no return. leading goal scorer latendresse to injury with no return. and with them goals. no goals. no offense.
#3 lack of solid leadership. yes. mikko is not saku. but no. he's been ok. think burns is the real team leader anyway.
#4 coaching decisions. yes. see #1 above. plus. madden. plus nystrom. have been weak. but no. tr didn't sign them. cf did.

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Old
12-10-2010, 05:14 PM
  #27
GopherState
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Originally Posted by CircularTheory View Post
I personally do not like his points

#1 - What we are missing is not an enforcer, its team toughness. A guy who is there just to 'scare' one player (scare a player like Ott) who probably is brave enough to keep playing his game anyways, is useless...

#2 - Yes, we are missing youth. But I think Josh Sargent should have made the effort to mention that Flecther did just join the Wild and Granlund is CF's and Flahr's first real attempt at drafting with the Wild.



Disagree completely. He doesn't make the effort in actually describing Granlund, which isn't fair. Granlund is one of Finland's top prospects and actually, Wild fans ARE clamoring to get him up to the NHL level as soon as possible.

#3 - This is just a personal thought for me but I believe leadership is what happens in the locker room,on the benches, and during practice, something as a fan don't have access to and I believe fans don't have any real right to criticize. But thats just me.

#4 - There are times I think fans are unfair to Richards, but I won't be ignorant and say Richards has been perfect. He hasn't. He's a rookie coach that has had made rookie mistakes. Or maybe we're just so used to the perfect coaching for a veteran like Lemaire but yes, Richards has made rookie mistakes.

Just my two cents..
I think number three is a very valid point. While we are fans who have a vested interest in the team, it's mostly from afar and through the secondhand gospel of beat writers, television personalities and our own game analysis. We don't really know much on a personal basis or behind the scenes other than reputations formed by the media.

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Old
12-10-2010, 06:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
I think number three is a very valid point. While we are fans who have a vested interest in the team, it's mostly from afar and through the secondhand gospel of beat writers, television personalities and our own game analysis. We don't really know much on a personal basis or behind the scenes other than reputations formed by the media.
and yet everyone feels free to say what a great leader koivu is.

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12-11-2010, 04:17 AM
  #29
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The next words out of his mouth should start with and end with, an elite player.

I think that Minnesota has a good team but it's a team of complementary players. Guys that will always be second tier players. No one on this team can truly dominate and dictate the flow of the game. Koivu is a solid player and is a stand up guy but he has never scored than 30 goals or been at a PPG.

We need an elite talent.

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12-11-2010, 06:45 AM
  #30
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I think they need a new coach/system that better fits the team make up and an elite goal scorer would help greatly.

Min has Staubitz and Kassian (when called up) to handle the rough stuff. Thats a pretty good 1,2 combo and doesnt break the bank.

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12-11-2010, 08:46 AM
  #31
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no chance in hell, but what would you give up for Malkin?

elite player is going to cost you a lot. Burns + Latendresse + the next three firsts?

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12-11-2010, 08:46 AM
  #32
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My take....

The Wild needs a healthy Latendresse who will likely replace Bruno next year as the top LW on this team. If he's able to produce like he did last year this team is much better than they are now.

They require substantial improvement from their 3rd defensive pairing. You can't have Barker/Stoner/Falk costing you games especially when a 3rd pairing will likely only play 8-12 minutes/game.

Beyond that they need to find another winger who can consistantly score 30 goals in the NHL. Is that guy Wellman? Is it Zucker? Is it Granlund? Or does it come from finally picking in the top 5 next June.

But honestly they are not that far from being good and perhaps that's an indictment of how watered down NHL talent is due to too many teams in the league.

Finally anyone who continues to blame Richards for the way they play needs to convert over to cheering for the Vikings.

I find it ironic that many of the Minnesotans who posted on these boards always make light of the fact some fans lobby for Minnesota born players to come back and play for the Wild. However, as I've said many times if your going to draw a big name player here as a UFA it's likely to be someone born here since many of the big name Euros prefer playing on the East or West Coasts.

The same people who criticize wanting Zach Parise to sign here in 2012 are some of the same people who want a coaching change.

Unfortunately, this is a veteran team with few young players. Second, they are playing well for extended periods of most games which tells me the coach has a solid plan in place. But when a veteran club takes an extended period off during a game then I hold the players accountable not the coach.

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Old
12-11-2010, 11:53 AM
  #33
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Worked 60 hours(~75 if you include travel time) this week(Mon-Fri) so I haven't really had time to read/post,

We don't need an enforcer. Brad Staubitz could have done the same thing to Ott that Boogaard/Kassian could have, and give the Stars a 7 minute power-play. Actually, that problem goes back to coaching. Against the Stars you really only need to watch out for 2 matchups - Ott against Havlat/Bouchard, and Brad Richards against the Wild's 4th line.

We're improving our talented youth, which is of course a problem because when your 2004(Thelen), 2005(Pouliot), 2006(Sheppard), 2007(Gillies), 2008(Cuma), 2009(Leddy), and 2010(Granlund) first round picks have either failed to progress or have been traded away since being drafted. There is still hope for some of those players, but their post-draft performances have all been worse than expected.

Leadership, the Captain can't lead by himself. We don't have many character players. Chuck Fletcher thought John Madden and Eric Nystrom would bring character to this team, but Madden's caused more goals than he's helped score, while Nystrom has struggled to adapt, not surprising when you consider he spent the last 10 years in one organization with only 3 different teams. Leadership starts with the head coach actually, and he's not leading this team anywhere.

Coaching decisions, does this topic need anymore discussion? Coaching is the biggest problem this team has.

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Old
12-11-2010, 12:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saywut View Post
Worked 60 hours(~75 if you include travel time) this week(Mon-Fri) so I haven't really had time to read/post,

We don't need an enforcer. Brad Staubitz could have done the same thing to Ott that Boogaard/Kassian could have, and give the Stars a 7 minute power-play. Actually, that problem goes back to coaching. Against the Stars you really only need to watch out for 2 matchups - Ott against Havlat/Bouchard, and Brad Richards against the Wild's 4th line.

We're improving our talented youth, which is of course a problem because when your 2004(Thelen), 2005(Pouliot), 2006(Sheppard), 2007(Gillies), 2008(Cuma), 2009(Leddy), and 2010(Granlund) first round picks have either failed to progress or have been traded away since being drafted. There is still hope for some of those players, but their post-draft performances have all been worse than expected.

Leadership, the Captain can't lead by himself. We don't have many character players. Chuck Fletcher thought John Madden and Eric Nystrom would bring character to this team, but Madden's caused more goals than he's helped score, while Nystrom has struggled to adapt, not surprising when you consider he spent the last 10 years in one organization with only 3 different teams. Leadership starts with the head coach actually, and he's not leading this team anywhere.

Coaching decisions, does this topic need anymore discussion? Coaching is the biggest problem this team has.
character doesn't equal goals--that's not the point. the point is Nystrom and Madden (this year) are consistently more engaged in the game than Koivu. Our top line has been by far the least motivated and energized looking group out there this year which is just plain wrong considering Koivu is getting paid disproportionately more than other players might for his intangibles vs. skill. Don't get me wrong--he's still skilled, but he isn't $7 million dollars worth of skilled. He's getting paid a lot because he's shown how intense he can be and because he visibly worked his arse off every game. The drop in his game IMO is the biggest factor in our lack of success this year.

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12-11-2010, 12:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
character doesn't equal goals--that's not the point. the point is Nystrom and Madden (this year) are consistently more engaged in the game than Koivu. Our top line has been by far the least motivated and energized looking group out there this year which is just plain wrong considering Koivu is getting paid disproportionately more than other players might for his intangibles vs. skill. Don't get me wrong--he's still skilled, but he isn't $7 million dollars worth of skilled. He's getting paid a lot because he's shown how intense he can be and because he visibly worked his arse off every game. The drop in his game IMO is the biggest factor in our lack of success this year.
Lack of success this year? Are you saying we had success last year? We're a bad team because we have a bad coach and a mediocre group of players. Koivu can't carry this team on his back, he never has and never will. Doesn't matter how hard John Madden tries, he's not an NHL player anymore.

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Old
12-11-2010, 12:37 PM
  #36
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Lack of success this year? Are you saying we had success last year? We're a bad team because we have a bad coach and a mediocre group of players. Koivu can't carry this team on his back, he never has and never will. Doesn't matter how hard John Madden tries, he's not an NHL player anymore.
no, i'm saying koivu is being out-charactered this year where that would have been unthinkable last year.

koivu is getting paid to carry the team, so he had better ****ing start. Gaborik carried the team. doesn't matter how much you love him, koivu is getting paid to be the lynchpin of this team and he's failing.

edit: do you mean to tell me you're blaming our crap season on 3rd and fourth line guys? !

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Old
12-11-2010, 12:58 PM
  #37
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Possible line to put up Mikko's production

Latendresse - Koivu - Bouchard
(when healthy) (when healthy)

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Old
12-11-2010, 01:04 PM
  #38
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Nah. No body can play with Koivu expect for Brunette and Miettinen. That's how it will be for the next seven years. Bruno will be like 44 and Miettenin will be as bad as ever, but god forbid that line gets broken up.

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12-11-2010, 01:42 PM
  #39
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and yet everyone feels free to say what a great leader koivu is.
It goes both ways.

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Old
12-11-2010, 01:50 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
It goes both ways.
I realize this. Just pointing out that you can say whatever you want about Koivu with no legitimate substantiation as long as it's positive but the slightest bit of criticism gets pounced on. Just playing devils advocate.

edit: pounce is probably too strong...remarked upon.

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12-11-2010, 01:52 PM
  #41
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Nah. No body can play with Koivu expect for Brunette and Miettinen. That's how it will be for the next seven years. Bruno will be like 44 and Miettenin will be as bad as ever, but god forbid that line gets broken up.
no proof at all but I don't think Brunette wants to play in this system. This isn't what he signed up for. He's not going to sandbag and pout while he's here, but I don't think the motivation for re-uping is there.

Koivu will just have learn how to play with <someone else of his choosing>.

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12-11-2010, 02:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
and yet everyone feels free to say what a great leader koivu is.
I don't know if he's a 'great' leader but he is the captain so he must be doing something right

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12-11-2010, 02:49 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by rynryn View Post
no, i'm saying koivu is being out-charactered this year where that would have been unthinkable last year.

koivu is getting paid to carry the team, so he had better ****ing start. Gaborik carried the team. doesn't matter how much you love him, koivu is getting paid to be the lynchpin of this team and he's failing.

edit: do you mean to tell me you're blaming our crap season on 3rd and fourth line guys? !
Well when you consider how overpaid our bottom-6 forwards are, yes they are a huge reason for our struggles. Kobasew's salary is what a whole 4th line should be, and hes a 4th liner on our team when healthy(with how Richards coaches at least). Then you look at Cullen, he's now our 3rd line center at 3.5M, but he's still the greatest signing in Wild history, am I right?

Then you go to defense, Barker makes about what a 5, 6, and 7 D-men should combine, and he's a low-end #5. This stuff piles up pretty quickly.

Koivu's supposed to carry this team? How did that work out for Stamkos last year when he scored 51?

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Old
12-11-2010, 03:05 PM
  #44
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Well when you consider how overpaid our bottom-6 forwards are, yes they are a huge reason for our struggles. Kobasew's salary is what a whole 4th line should be, and hes a 4th liner on our team when healthy(with how Richards coaches at least). Then you look at Cullen, he's now our 3rd line center at 3.5M, but he's still the greatest signing in Wild history, am I right?

Then you go to defense, Barker makes about what a 5, 6, and 7 D-men should combine, and he's a low-end #5. This stuff piles up pretty quickly.

Koivu's supposed to carry this team? How did that work out for Stamkos last year when he scored 51?
as far as i know Stamkos isn't alone over there in Tampa. He might be the scoring engine, but he wasn't supposed to be the heart and soul.
yet.


All that is valid--i realize we have a lot of bank in our bottom guys that prohibits us from assembling the Washington Capitals but you can't escape the fact that Koivu is the centerpiece, and what he's getting paid for is his drive and intensity more than his point totals. Gotta be honest and say i didn't think he was ready for Captaincy last year and I still don't think he is. When he's on hes a phenomenal example setter but there's just something not there.

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12-11-2010, 03:16 PM
  #45
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It would be amazing to see Malkin on Koivu's wing Ryn but it take the whole farm to get him. I'm all for it lol

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12-11-2010, 03:25 PM
  #46
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as far as i know Stamkos isn't alone over there in Tampa. He might be the scoring engine, but he wasn't supposed to be the heart and soul.
yet.


All that is valid--i realize we have a lot of bank in our bottom guys that prohibits us from assembling the Washington Capitals but you can't escape the fact that Koivu is the centerpiece, and what he's getting paid for is his drive and intensity more than his point totals. Gotta be honest and say i didn't think he was ready for Captaincy last year and I still don't think he is. When he's on hes a phenomenal example setter but there's just something not there.
I'm not trying to say that Koivu's been himself, he hasn't. But he's not supposed to carry this team. No 1 player is supposed to carry any team. Theres many who believe Koivu is playing injured, I do believe it is a possibility. The captain isn't the only guy who's allowed to lead either. Koivu was the obvious choice to name captain last year, unless we wanted to continue rolling the monthly one or not have one at all. He still is, no one else on this team is more worthy of the C.

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Old
12-11-2010, 05:12 PM
  #47
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we need more team speed.

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12-11-2010, 05:22 PM
  #48
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we need more team speed.
More speed, size, and offensive ability.

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12-11-2010, 05:24 PM
  #49
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More speed, size, and offensive ability.


more cowbell.

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