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Lineup when the walking wounded return?

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12-10-2010, 11:09 AM
  #1
Chainshot
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Lineup when the walking wounded return?

Today's thought -- what to do with the lines once the walking wounded start to come back?

It might be that Connolly back with Hecht and Pominville-- but that would also mean Adam has to stay up until such time as Niedermayer comes back to play center OR they break up a working line to put McCormick back in the middle again. Or... they leave Hecht in the middle with Ennis and Kaleta, put Connolly back in the middle in place of Adam with only Pominville and Mancari/Stafford on the wing. Stafford/Mancari-Connolly-Pominville could be interesting with Ennis-Hecht-Kaleta and McCormick-Gaustad-Grier. It seems to keep a more balanced lineup IMO, even though I'm not keen on keeping Hecht in the middle.

Stafford back seems simple -- send Mancari back down and have Staff play LW like he did against Columbus.

Niedermayer... I don't know. If he's back and quicker, do they remold the lineup to again have two lines concentrating their offense and two lines more in the defense/physical role? Does he come back and play LW like he did before being shut down? Can he not be an offensive void on his line? Honestly, I don't see him having a place at the moment with a fully healthy lineup.

The long-layoff and ability for some of these lines to practice together seems to have made them mesh over the last couple of weeks.

Gerbe-Roy-Vanek has continued to be good, I don't see any reason to shuffle anyone here.
Ennis-Hecht-Kaleta has had moments but seems like it could be torn up depending on health.
Mancari-Adam-Pominville has had some very good forechecking moments, pressure, etc... and also a few shifts hemmed in their own zone due to a number of factors. Adam is getting a lot of OJT -- I like what he's doing there but wouldn't be surprised to see him sent back down. Ditto Mancari.
McCormick-Gaustad-Grier have been a solid physical/checking/forechecking trio. Grier seems good for one solid game per week and McCormick has energized Gaustad enough to let that trio continue IMO. Don't break them up.

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12-10-2010, 11:12 AM
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CarlWinslow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Today's thought -- what to do with the lines once the walking wounded start to come back?

It might be that Connolly back with Hecht and Pominville-- but that would also mean Adam has to stay up until such time as Niedermayer comes back to play center OR they break up a working line to put McCormick back in the middle again. Or... they leave Hecht in the middle with Ennis and Kaleta, put Connolly back in the middle in place of Adam with only Pominville and Mancari/Stafford on the wing. Stafford/Mancari-Connolly-Pominville could be interesting with Ennis-Hecht-Kaleta and McCormick-Gaustad-Grier. It seems to keep a more balanced lineup IMO, even though I'm not keen on keeping Hecht in the middle.

Stafford back seems simple -- send Mancari back down and have Staff play LW like he did against Columbus.

Niedermayer... I don't know. If he's back and quicker, do they remold the lineup to again have two lines concentrating their offense and two lines more in the defense/physical role? Does he come back and play LW like he did before being shut down? Can he not be an offensive void on his line? Honestly, I don't see him having a place at the moment with a fully healthy lineup.
I agree. I wouldn't sit anyone we have rolling now for Niedermayer. His lack of effort is infuriating.

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12-10-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
I agree. I wouldn't sit anyone we have rolling now for Niedermayer. His lack of effort is infuriating.
It could be the knee that is bothering him with the starts-and-stops that so many of the guys are currently busting there butts doing shift on shift. But right now... I can't see where Niedermayer fits.

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12-10-2010, 11:16 AM
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I agree. I wouldn't sit anyone we have rolling now for Niedermayer. His lack of effort is infuriating.
Was it lack of effort or lack of health?

I know we tend to forget these guys are human but trying to play on a bad knee will effect anyone's skating. It was an issue since camp. Will he be a different player fully healthy? I have no idea but I'm willing to wait and see before writing him off.

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12-10-2010, 11:19 AM
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The third line is really where the problem starts. Keep Gerbe with Vanek and Roy for now...

Gerbe Roy Vanek
Stafford Connolly Pominville
Ennis Hecht Kaleta
McCormick Gaustad Grier

Mancari and Adam go back. Neids remains a spare.

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12-10-2010, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by rockstar2866 View Post
The third line is really where the problem starts. Keep Gerbe with Vanek and Roy for now...

Gerbe Roy Vanek
Stafford Connolly Pominville
Ennis Hecht Kaleta
McCormick Gaustad Grier

Mancari and Adam go back. Neids remains a spare.
I wouldn't be shocked if Ennis gets sat for a bit with his defensive zone lapses.

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12-10-2010, 11:26 AM
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I wouldn't be shocked if Ennis gets sat for a bit with his defensive zone lapses.
Maybe, but I'm not sure the team can afford to lose his creativity, even if he overdoes it at times. We're just not offensively talented enough to take him out of the lineup if he's healthy enough to go.

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12-10-2010, 11:31 AM
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Maybe, but I'm not sure the team can afford to lose his creativity, even if he overdoes it at times. We're just not offensively talented enough to take him out of the lineup if he's healthy enough to go.
Lets not overplay the kids importance.

In his last 10 games he only has points in 1 of them and is a -5.

He is a rookie and if he needs to sit to get his game squared away then he should sit.


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12-10-2010, 11:38 AM
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Its unlikely to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing a 3rd line of Ennis/Adam/Stafford.

But a healthy roster makes that virtually impossible.

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12-10-2010, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Was it lack of effort or lack of health?

I know we tend to forget these guys are human but trying to play on a bad knee will effect anyone's skating. It was an issue since camp. Will he be a different player fully healthy? I have no idea but I'm willing to wait and see before writing him off.
I don't remember you toting out the "playing on a broken foot" excuse for Connolly after the playoffs...

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12-10-2010, 11:43 AM
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I don't remember you toting out the "playing on a broken foot" excuse for Connolly after the playoffs...

I did wonder if it was impacting his play. Mostly from a timing and conditioning pov.


Btw Ruff and Connolly himself said he was healthy..... so why would I be called out for this?

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12-10-2010, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I wouldn't be shocked if Ennis gets sat for a bit with his defensive zone lapses.
I agree. A one gamer wouldn't be such a bad thing. Just a simple message.

Gerbe-Roy-Vanek
Hecht-Connolly-Stafford
Ennis-McCormick-Pominville
Kaleta-Goose-Grier

I really don't see any value in finding a way to fit Niedermayer into the lineup... he's in the same boat as Rivet in my opinion

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12-10-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I did wonder if it was impacting his play. Mostly from a timing and conditioning pov.


Btw Ruff and Connolly himself said he was healthy..... so why would I be called out for this?
lets just agree that Niedermayer sucks

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12-10-2010, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Its unlikely to happen but I wouldn't mind seeing a 3rd line of Ennis/Adam/Stafford.

But a healthy roster makes that virtually impossible.
Morrisonn to IR for his concussion might make it possible. Who of Vanek, Pominville, Kaleta or Grier goes to LW?

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12-10-2010, 11:52 AM
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lets just agree that Niedermayer sucks
Nope.

He hasn't been very good so far and I wasn't very happy with his play. But I also didn't know he had fluid/swelling in his knee that he tried to play through.


http://www.wgr550.com/Niedermayer-ha...urgery/8627073


Quote:
.... Ruff takes us through the timeline for this, "Rob felt it in the preseason, we've left him off some mornings. He's had some fluid and it's bothered him and it hampered him with his skating so, he's been trying to play through it and it hasn't been getting any better so the decision was finally to try to alleviate some of that."

Niedermayer has not played well in many games and has no goals and six assists in 21 games. Ruff said, "I think at some point you have to give him some credit for trying to get through it, but he just feels its hurt his play and he's a better skater than he's shown so it isn't working the way he was trying to get it done so the best thing to do is have it cleaned up."

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12-10-2010, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Morrisonn to IR for his concussion might make it possible. Who of Vanek, Pominville, Kaleta or Grier goes to LW?


Why not Pommer. He can't be any less effective offensively. I love Vanek on RW and think the other two are more effective at RW as well.

But this was the top 9 I was thinking of

Gerbe/Roy/Vanek
Hecht/Connolly/Pommer
Ennis/Adam/Stafford

Obviosuly the issue then becomes who of McCormick, Goose, Grier, Nieds and Kaleta play on the 4th line.

I would go with McCormick/Goose/Kaleta

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12-10-2010, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Nope.

He hasn't been very good so far and I wasn't very happy with his play. But I also didn't know he had fluid/swelling in his knee that he tried to play through.


http://www.wgr550.com/Niedermayer-ha...urgery/8627073
so... he's had fluid on his knee all season... that's fine.... that's a great excuse for him SUCKING.

excuses don't negate the fact that he played like **** all year.

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12-10-2010, 12:04 PM
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so... he's had fluid on his knee all season... that's fine.... that's a great excuse for him SUCKING.

excuses don't negate the fact that he played like **** all year.
It is actually.

If player that relies on his skating can't rely on it due to an injury. They're unlikely to be as effective. Anyone thats played the game or uses a little bit of common sense can understand that.

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12-10-2010, 12:06 PM
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It is actually.

If player that relies on his skating can't rely on it due to an injury. They're unlikely to be as effective. Anyone thats played the game or uses a little bit of common sense can understand that.
um... yes.... like i said... its a great excuse for sucking...

so does that mean we agree that he sucks?

I stopped giving a crap about your medical analysis once Craig Rivet took the ice this year. You wrote off his suckage on two torn labrums... turns out, fixing the labrums didn't fix the suckery.

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12-10-2010, 12:20 PM
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When Stafford returns, Mancari departs. Easy enough. When Connolly returns, Adam is probably returned to Portland to continue developing his game, especially in the defensive zone. As others have mentioned, the real decision occurs when Niedermayer is ready to return.

Sitting Ennis for a game or two is a possibility. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kaleta be the odd man out. If you listen to Ruff's post-game presser last night, you could tell he wasn't too happy with Kaleta's game. He pointed out Kaleta missing a great scoring chance that could've made it 4-1, and San Jose scoring on the ensuing rush to make it 3-2. And despite Ennis's gaffe on San Jose's third goal, Ruff said, "the real problem there is that we made a bad change, we had no right wing on the ice...Pat Kaleta came off the ice too soon, and I don't know why." (At least that was the substance of what he said.)

Gerbe-Roy-Vanek
Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Ennis/Kaleta-Niedermayer-Stafford
Gaustad-McCormick-Grier

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12-10-2010, 12:24 PM
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um... yes.... like i said... its a great excuse for sucking...

so does that mean we agree that he sucks?

I stopped giving a crap about your medical analysis once Craig Rivet took the ice this year. You wrote off his suckage on two torn labrums... turns out, fixing the labrums didn't fix the suckery.
You mean that I wanted to see if he got better after the surgery and rightly felt his play was impacted by his injuries. That he was unable to fully bounce back doesn't change that.

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12-10-2010, 12:25 PM
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When Stafford returns, Mancari departs. Easy enough. When Connolly returns, Adam is probably returned to Portland to continue developing his game, especially in the defensive zone. As others have mentioned, the real decision occurs when Niedermayer is ready to return.

Sitting Ennis for a game or two is a possibility. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Kaleta be the odd man out. If you listen to Ruff's post-game presser last night, you could tell he wasn't too happy with Kaleta's game. He pointed out Kaleta missing a great scoring chance that could've made it 4-1, and San Jose scoring on the ensuing rush to make it 3-2. And despite Ennis's gaffe on San Jose's third goal, Ruff said, "the real problem there is that we made a bad change, we had no right wing on the ice...Pat Kaleta came off the ice too soon, and I don't know why." (At least that was the substance of what he said.)

Gerbe-Roy-Vanek
Hecht-Connolly-Pominville
Ennis/Kaleta-Niedermayer-Stafford
Gaustad-McCormick-Grier
I thought his answer mentioning the change was more to shield Ennis than anything pointedly about Pat. The question was about Ennis not seeing the ice after that and it seemed like Ruff did his best to deflect that he did, in fact, bench Ennis, Adam and Mancari for the last 10-odd minutes of the game.

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12-10-2010, 12:33 PM
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I thought his answer mentioning the change was more to shield Ennis than anything pointedly about Pat. The question was about Ennis not seeing the ice after that and it seemed like Ruff did his best to deflect that he did, in fact, bench Ennis, Adam and Mancari for the last 10-odd minutes of the game.
I don't disagree. I took it more as Ruff acknowledging Ennis made a bad play, but also pointing out Kaleta made a poor decision there. IIRC, Neale also pointed out that the Sabres made a bad change there, as well.

I know people love what Kaleta brings, but if it isn't Ennis coming out of the lineup, I think it's probably Kaleta. Right now, I don't think Gerbe is in any danger of losing his lineup spot.

Of course, since we're talking about it, someone will get hurt tomorrow night and the need to make any such lineup decision will be obviated.

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12-10-2010, 12:49 PM
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Wait for an injury to put Nieds back in the lineup. He's not better than anyone right now.

And Vanek absolutely, 100%, no questions asked needs to stay on the right.

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12-10-2010, 01:06 PM
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Gerbe-Roy-Vanek
Hecht-Connolly-Kaleta
Ennis-Adam/Niedermayer-Pominville
McCormick-Gaustad-Stafford/Grier

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