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Post #470: Zherdev lower body injury, not likely to play January 6th

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Old
12-15-2010, 10:56 AM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Z is getting an undeserved bad rap. Posters want to twist ice time and stats to suit their arguments but the bottom line is that he has 10 goals in very limited ice time. He wasn't just going to walk into Philly and change their hockey culture overnight. He's got to work on some things, IMO it's making the simple play and keeping his feet moving. He plays more physical than Leino and really doesn't cough the puck up a whole lot more than any of our other forwards when they try to do too much. I love watching him play and sooner or later he's going to figure it out. I think many people are confusing trying to do too much with being "selfish." I'm sure if it was as simple as selfishness, Z would not be in Lavi's line up.
How is he getting a bad rap? When he signed in Philly one of his quotes that I have not found yet stated him knowing he needed to be more focused on the defensive end of the ice and be more of a team type guy, which he said he would. This goes back to his days in Columbus and in NY, he gets the puck and wants to dazzle with his moves. When he completes such a move it ends up on the top 10, when it does not it ends up in the back of the Flyers zone and does not allow for good line changes which results in tired linemates and eventually a goal or a penalty.

It is not a knock on his skills, but teams who want to win a Stanely Cup rarely have success when this is one of your premier guys on the roster. There is a reason why he is averaging just @10mins a game, he has not figured anything out and the coach is calling him out for it. This should not just be given to Zherdev, he came with the premise that he would be given a chance to earn a spot on the roster, not just be given the puck and say "score away" big guy because this is a tryout for you to make some money next year.

WTF is wrong with people?

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12-15-2010, 01:00 PM
  #277
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I think Homer getting Z was a brilliant move ! I think Z will be a big plus in our teams journey to the Stanley cup etc.I honestly hope we don't unload him etc, our team don't need anybody else in my opinion.If it ain't broke don't fix it !

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12-15-2010, 01:07 PM
  #278
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Z will be a good secret weapon

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12-15-2010, 01:25 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
I think Homer getting Z was a brilliant move ! I think Z will be a big plus in our teams journey to the Stanley cup etc.I honestly hope we don't unload him etc, our team don't need anybody else in my opinion.If it ain't broke don't fix it !
I would take Drew Stafford for Nik Zherdev in a deal. Or how about Steve Bernier from Fla? Chad Larose from Carolina? Throw in a draft pick for any of these guys and call it a day, the overall team just would have gotten a heck of a lot better.

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12-15-2010, 02:41 PM
  #280
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Zherdev and Leighton to Tampa for St.Louis...ha.

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12-15-2010, 03:05 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
.

It is not a knock on his skills, but teams who want to win a Stanely Cup rarely have success when this is one of your premier guys on the roster. There is a reason why he is averaging just @10mins a game, he has not figured anything out and the coach is calling him out for it. This should not just be given to Zherdev, he came with the premise that he would be given a chance to earn a spot on the roster, not just be given the puck and say "score away" big guy because this is a tryout for you to make some money next year.

WTF is wrong with people?
Ummm, that 'wtf is wrong with people' is what I feel. You said it yourself.... teams that win the Cup dont have Z as one of their premier guys.

Exactly. Z is not one of Philly's premier guys.

But while other teams' non-premier guys are 4th line plumbers who contribute nothing, our non premier Zherdev pots 20 plus goals a year.

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12-15-2010, 03:06 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
I think Homer getting Z was a brilliant move ! I think Z will be a big plus in our teams journey to the Stanley cup etc.I honestly hope we don't unload him etc, our team don't need anybody else in my opinion.If it ain't broke don't fix it !
Exactly.

Mark my words. If Philly doesnt get stupid and trade this guy, cpome back to me in May and tell me how many GWGs Z scores in the POs.

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12-15-2010, 03:17 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
Sometimes i honestly wonder if his minutes are down so they can sign him at a lower cost after the playoffs etc ! Z has 10 goals with VERY limited time, he would have as many as Roo if he got more time, power play etc in my opinion ?His plus side far out weights his minus side in my opinion.
Nah, he's the type whose perfromance would probably degrade with more ice time.

I like having him play 10 mins a game. I don;t want to see him traded, and he shouldnt be benched either.

Why not keep him as he is?

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12-15-2010, 03:19 PM
  #284
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Let's face it. Purely offensive skill players come to die in Philadelphia. There's just something about this franchise in which these guys never pan out. I'm sure that if we had a Pavel Bure or some type like that, he wouldn't pan out here either.

Honestly, the Flyers knew what they were getting with Zherdev. They brought him in to add offense. They didn't bring him in for stellar two-way play and to think he's going to become a two-way sensation is just setting themselves up for disappointment.

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12-15-2010, 03:19 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Ummm, that 'wtf is wrong with people' is what I feel. You said it yourself.... teams that win the Cup dont have Z as one of their premier guys.

Exactly. Z is not one of Philly's premier guys.

But while other teams' non-premier guys are 4th line plumbers who contribute nothing, our non premier Zherdev pots 20 plus goals a year.
Your premier 4th line 20 goal scorer also decides when he does and does not want to commit to his defensive game which means he is a liability in tight games where you need to ratchet up the defense and still be able to play 4 lines.

Let me use this example. Game 7 of a playoff game is tied and the play is shifting out of the zone like O'Donnell did last night to JvR, who then chips it along the boards with Zherdev is is trying to cheat in behind the defense to get a breakout but the defense stops the puck, chips it back in deep and has a 4 on 5 because Zherdev is trying to cherry pick.

I do not care if Zherdev scores 5 goals, 10 goals, or 20 goals so long as he buys into the team philosophy that the coach has in place. The reason why I do not believe the coach has this faith is because in tight games Zherdev does not see the ice, as a top 9 fwd he needs to be able to play on every shift, not a one trick pony who is only out there to provide some fancy moves and a drop pass. I would feel a lot more confortable with any of the players I mentioned for the same dough as Zherdev.

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12-15-2010, 03:21 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Exactly.

Mark my words. If Philly doesnt get stupid and trade this guy, cpome back to me in May and tell me how many GWGs Z scores in the POs.
Book it, guys like Zherdev do not come to play in May.

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12-15-2010, 03:23 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Ummm, that 'wtf is wrong with people' is what I feel. You said it yourself.... teams that win the Cup dont have Z as one of their premier guys.

Exactly. Z is not one of Philly's premier guys.

But while other teams' non-premier guys are 4th line plumbers who contribute nothing, our non premier Zherdev pots 20 plus goals a year.
stop calling Z a 4th line player. As Jester posted earlier, you can see on Dobberhockey that 80% of his shifts or something like that have been outside of the 4th line.

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12-15-2010, 03:25 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Let's face it. Purely offensive skill players come to die in Philadelphia. There's just something about this franchise in which these guys never pan out. I'm sure that if we had a Pavel Bure or some type like that, he wouldn't pan out here either.

Honestly, the Flyers knew what they were getting with Zherdev. They brought him in to add offense. They didn't bring him in for stellar two-way play and to think he's going to become a two-way sensation is just setting themselves up for disappointment.


Yeah, drowning here.

You have to play both sides of the puck if you want to win in this league. Pavel Bure played in one playoff series after he left Vancouver. I'd rather win hockey games than be watching a skill player float and dangle.

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12-15-2010, 03:29 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Let's face it. Purely offensive skill players come to die in Philadelphia. There's just something about this franchise in which these guys never pan out. I'm sure that if we had a Pavel Bure or some type like that, he wouldn't pan out here either.

Honestly, the Flyers knew what they were getting with Zherdev. They brought him in to add offense. They didn't bring him in for stellar two-way play and to think he's going to become a two-way sensation is just setting themselves up for disappointment.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Zherdev came to Philly knowing he needed to be more defensively focused to fit in with Laviolette's style of play. He was even quoted that he wanted to prove he could play defense in the NHL as a fwd.

"I'm changing my style and trying to play more defensive zone. I think, right now, I'm two-way player. Before, I was probably more forward ... playing more of the attacking zone. The last couple seasons, I've been more defensive zone, too."
-- Nikolai Zherdev


http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534378

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12-15-2010, 03:32 PM
  #290
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nice find.

SOme games he is definitely trying to play D, but it's like after 1 game of D he forgets and stops doing it

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12-15-2010, 04:01 PM
  #291
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Well, on a few occasions he hasn't been.


Leino sat how many games last year? Sometimes guys have to adjust, boggles my mind how it's ok for some and not for others. Like I said before, Z's not going to walk into the dressing room a changed player and old habits die hard. I see immense improvement and yes there is room for much more. I don't believe the problem is selfishness and some seem so convinced.

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12-15-2010, 04:40 PM
  #292
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You have to play both sides of the puck if you want to win in this league. Pavel Bure played in one playoff series after he left Vancouver. I'd rather win hockey games than be watching a skill player float and dangle.
Alex Kovalev once won the cup, and he was one of the key players on the Rangers. Was he very good defensively at 21? I don't know but somehow I doubt it. His general reputation has always been the same -- no D and a lot of turnovers.

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12-15-2010, 04:49 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by vera1964 View Post
Alex Kovalev once won the cup, and he was one of the key players on the Rangers. Was he very good defensively at 21? I don't know but somehow I doubt it. His general reputation has always been the same -- no D and a lot of turnovers.
It isn't 1993 anymore.

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12-15-2010, 05:46 PM
  #294
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Alex Kovalev once won the cup, and he was one of the key players on the Rangers. Was he very good defensively at 21? I don't know but somehow I doubt it. His general reputation has always been the same -- no D and a lot of turnovers.
You realize this doesn't really have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not Z is as valuable as other players on the Flyers roster, right?

Flyers aren't lacking for offense. If they were, then Z would have more marginal return for the team...

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12-15-2010, 05:47 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Leino sat how many games last year? Sometimes guys have to adjust, boggles my mind how it's ok for some and not for others. Like I said before, Z's not going to walk into the dressing room a changed player and old habits die hard. I see immense improvement and yes there is room for much more. I don't believe the problem is selfishness and some seem so convinced.
Taking the puck and trying to go one-on-one at every opportunity is selfish play, and Z does it far too often.

And Leino was sitting because he had struggled in Detroit and they weren't sure what they had, or how he fit... two different situations.

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12-15-2010, 06:28 PM
  #296
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Let me use this example. Game 7 of a playoff game is tied and the play is shifting out of the zone like O'Donnell did last night to JvR, who then chips it along the boards with Zherdev is is trying to cheat in behind the defense to get a breakout but the defense stops the puck, chips it back in deep and has a 4 on 5 because Zherdev is trying to cherry pick.
Lol, i will show you how worthless it is posting things like this.

Let me use this example. Game 7 of a playoff game is tied and the play is shifting out of the zone like OD did last night to JVR, who then chips it along the boards with Zherdev. Z cheats the defense to get a breakout. The defenseman is in two minds and coughs the puck up, Z heads on a breakaway, he goes forehand to backhand and roofs the winning goal past a completly beaten goaltender. His name goes onto the cup, and he goes down in history as a player that everyone loved here, and was so gifted.

It works both ways fella

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12-15-2010, 07:55 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You realize this doesn't really have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not Z is as valuable as other players on the Flyers roster, right?

Flyers aren't lacking for offense. If they were, then Z would have more marginal return for the team...
I wasn't even talking about Zherdev... I was just saying that, in general, an enigmatic skilled Russian, who is not great defensively, and is criticized for a lot of turnovers and lack of effort, can theoretically be useful to win the cup. No analogies here, whatsoever

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12-15-2010, 08:57 PM
  #298
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His best game of the season.

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12-15-2010, 09:08 PM
  #299
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His best game of the season.
Agreed. He only tried going around everyone like once the whole game, and really only saw 2 mistakes which is good (the trying to go around everyone and that turnover which lead to a 2v1).

If he played like this every game, I would have no problem with him and would welcome him. Him actually doing that is another thing though. Hope he does

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12-15-2010, 09:11 PM
  #300
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His effort is inconsistent, but at this rate I think I'm willing to take the good with the bad. The guy is still a game-breaking player.

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